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Roderick

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I actually feel like it's a lot like the Chelsea Manning issue with WikiLeaks. Chelsea didn't release her information in the safest way, she just kind of let it all out, all at the same time, with no discrimination. It's awful what has happened to her, a complete injustice, and I think she shouldn't have been jailed and I think she was trying to do the right thing, but I also see why some people who support transparency in government would also think that the way she handled it was bad. If you look at what Edward Snowden did, he learned from her mistakes. He's withheld a large amount of the information, and carefully sorted it, and he distributed it through a respectable journalistic source, and made sure he had all his stuff together before he did it. But I think one reason he could do that is because he had the hindsight of what happened to Manning. So while I don't think Manning is a bad person, I do think there are ways their execution sucked.

 

 

 

 

But in Manning's case, there was a public good to leaking the information. In this case of what Gjoni has done, private information has been collected from an intimate relationship and deseminated with hopes to fuel a hate-campaign against an individual who he wanted to hurt. There is no quantity of public good embedded in this breach of confidence. His actions are despicable, selfish, and abusive. I have no difficulty imagining a situation in which Gjoni threatened to go public with their private life in attempts to control Quinn during their relationship. Based on the desperate and shameless actions he's displayed with his blog-post, it doesn't seem like much of a leap. 
 
 
 

And nepotism is such a huge issue with the games industry, and that's something that I feel really weird about. I mean I finally got a job, and I got in part because I knew someone on the team. I've applied to a lot of jobs and not heard back because of that lack of personal connection. On one hand I understand why that's a thing. It's not even a thing exclusive to the games industry, it's all over, all kinds of industries, but games, especially indie games, is such a small industry that it's a much smaller club and it plays a really big role. 

That's actually something Zoe Quinn talked about in one of the chat logs. She talked about how the games industry isn't a meritocracy, and how things are really shitty and she kind of hoped that she could change things, but that she doesn't want it to end up changing her. There's a line she said about "once you get more than 2 people involved there is always this shitty power dynamics going on". That's the thing that makes me feel concerned about the games industry as a whole, is how personal relationship, power, and hierarchy is such an unfair influence on things. This stuff is rampant in the industry and it's Doritos and Press Releases as Articles, and miles and miles of advertising and marketing marketing marketing. I don't believe in Doritos. I believe in justice though and so this Quinn stuff feels a bit like betrayal. I mean not personal betrayal, obviously, who gives a fuck about some random dude on the internet, but I mean it's disheartening to confront the possibility that any attempt at changing the system will result in the system changing you. 

 

 

I don't understand why anyone would feel betrayed by Quinn. This makes no sense to me. 

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http://nichegamer.net/2014/08/the-schism-of-gaming-zoe-quinn-nepotism-and-white-knight-journalism/

 

I can't stop myself from reading this stuff. The views expressed in this article and elsewhere are so far afield from what I responsibly feel like I can understand and yet I continue to try. Something I've noticed is that many of these pieces repeat the mantra that gamers made games what they are, not the journalists or writers, who are actually seen as threats to this gaming paradise. The unjustified and unearned entitlement is staggering. Years of tying the gamer identity to consumerism has given these people a sense of ownership over games, which is why they feel threatened by anything that can be seen as weakening that ownership. That's a horrible environment for producing meaningful and honest art. 

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I guess if you fear women/feminism will corrupt or change beyond recognition your beloved hobby/personal sanctuary, then an ostensible scandal where a woman is accused of having sex to get her way is probably something that is going to push all your buttons like crazy.

I feel like there's some deep insight to be gained with this widespread obsessive focus on 'nepotism' that I am simply not smart enough to discover. Some articles have come close (I particularly like Matthew Burns'), but nothing is really nailing it, I don't think.

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I enjoy the "real gamers" rhetoric. Enjoy. It almost always boils down to "real gamers don't like change" disguised as "real gamers don't like conflict" beneath a layer of "real gamers only care about games". Fun times.

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http://nichegamer.net/2014/08/the-schism-of-gaming-zoe-quinn-nepotism-and-white-knight-journalism/

 

I can't stop myself from reading this stuff. The views expressed in this article and elsewhere are so far afield from what I responsibly feel like I can understand and yet I continue to try. Something I've noticed is that many of these pieces repeat the mantra that gamers made games what they are, not the journalists or writers, who are actually seen as threats to this gaming paradise. The unjustified and unearned entitlement is staggering. Years of tying the gamer identity to consumerism has given these people a sense of ownership over games, which is why they feel threatened by anything that can be seen as weakening that ownership. That's a horrible environment for producing meaningful and honest art. 

 

I kept reading that and thinking it couldn't possibly get worse, or more absurd.  And then it did, and did, and did.  I agree with everything you said.  I also find the way these "gamers" speak for the entire community to be both hilarious and depressing.  It's literally impossible for them to imagine the gaming community including anyone who isn't like them.  Everyone else is clearly an outsider trying to tear them down. 

 

The asshole who wrote that isn't finished, he can't wait to bring even more research and truthbombs down on Quinn on his podcast tomorrow.  Fucking yah.

 

That piece did send me down some weird rabbit holes though.  So YouPorn is planning on sponsoring a Dota 2 team.  Link is to a Reddit AMA that is lacking in interesting Dota questions.

 

In the comments of that NG article, there was also a person claiming that Quinn single-handedly orchestrated (image of a now deleted Reddit post) a conspiracy to try and bring down a women focused game jam.  That led me to the FineYoungCapitalists and this audio explanation.  The whole thing screams scam to me.  It's not a game jam, it's a contest with 5 anonymous people we are told are women.  We are told that it has to be a contest, and not a game jam, because Canadian law would prevent a women only games jam but not a women only contest.  Wut?  The women won't be making games, because they have no experience, because women with no experience making games were recruited.  They'll just be providing ideas to the people who actually know how to make games.  The women will own the work, but will only be allowed to keep 8 percent of the profits, and the rest must be donated to charity, all of that after the professional designers are paid, of course.  There's an indiegogo to fund the making of the game.  And of course, if the game never turns a profit, no money will go to charity and the winning designer (if she exists) will never see a dime.  Apparently Quinn was calling shenanigans on them, and now they've jumped on the bandwagon of attacking her in various places, giving all the haters another bullet point to add to their ever expanding list of proof of how evil she is. 

 

The more I learn about Quinn, the more I realized how badass she is. She's like a Bond villain.  She has a super lair somewhere in the world, in it "gamers" are flayed alive and forced to compete to the death with shitty Wii games.  Anita Sarkeesian watches, eating gluten free pita wafers dipped in John Romero's tears, which flow endlessly as he mourns the death of gaming.

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I kept reading that and thinking it couldn't possibly get worse, or more absurd.  And then it did, and did, and did.  I agree with everything you said.  I also find the way these "gamers" speak for the entire community to be both hilarious and depressing.  It's literally impossible for them to imagine the gaming community including anyone who isn't like them.  Everyone else is clearly an outsider trying to tear them down. 

 

The thing I really love is that, while an expanding and more inclusive membership has never outright killed a media community to my knowledge, the restriction and intimidation of membership by self-appointed gatekeepers among the hardcore has done just that several times in the last couple decades alone. I mean, not to be cruel, but why not ask wargamers how their hobby is doing and if they still feel so sure about women and children being excluded, eh?

 

 

Actually, what gets me the most is how all these people apparently think that journalism happens. If not for reporters and bloggers with friends in the games industry, would there be anything to print besides official press releases and the occasional well-coached interview? Do they really think that every person a journalist meets, they have to inquire on their career, else they might inadvertently make nice with a developer or vice versa? I can only imagine the dramatic ceremonies that must be conducted when a journalist is hired by the industry. There must be several nights of revelry with his journalist friends, after which he must bid farewell to each of them to begin his new life as someone who creates games, free of their taint. If that journalist is dating another journalist when she changes jobs, she is allowed a fortnight to consummate her love in full with her partner before they are dead to her forever. Never again, never again. We must all live, monk-like in our devotion to games, in order to preserve and deserve their quality. Ugh.

 

Seriously, just reading the first paragraph of that article, with all its hand-wringing about "corruption" and "sleaziness" of the entirely alleged relationships, I really wonder if these people even understand the implications of the absolute and hermetic seal they expect to exist between the industry and its media. I doubt they hold themselves to the same standards, but isn't that just how privilege is?

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I kept reading that and thinking it couldn't possibly get worse, or more absurd.  And then it did, and did, and did.  I agree with everything you said.  I also find the way these "gamers" speak for the entire community to be both hilarious and depressing.  It's literally impossible for them to imagine the gaming community including anyone who isn't like them.  Everyone else is clearly an outsider trying to tear them down. 

 

The asshole who wrote that isn't finished, he can't wait to bring even more research and truthbombs down on Quinn on his podcast tomorrow.  Fucking yah.

 

That piece did send me down some weird rabbit holes though.  So YouPorn is planning on sponsoring a Dota 2 team.  Link is to a Reddit AMA that is lacking in interesting Dota questions.

 

In the comments of that NG article, there was also a person claiming that Quinn single-handedly orchestrated (image of a now deleted Reddit post) a conspiracy to try and bring down a women focused game jam.  That led me to the FineYoungCapitalists and this audio explanation.  The whole thing screams scam to me.  It's not a game jam, it's a contest with 5 anonymous people we are told are women.  We are told that it has to be a contest, and not a game jam, because Canadian law would prevent a women only games jam but not a women only contest.  Wut?  The women won't be making games, because they have no experience, because women with no experience making games were recruited.  They'll just be providing ideas to the people who actually know how to make games.  The women will own the work, but will only be allowed to keep 8 percent of the profits, and the rest must be donated to charity, all of that after the professional designers are paid, of course.  There's an indiegogo to fund the making of the game.  And of course, if the game never turns a profit, no money will go to charity and the winning designer (if she exists) will never see a dime.  Apparently Quinn was calling shenanigans on them, and now they've jumped on the bandwagon of attacking her in various places, giving all the haters another bullet point to add to their ever expanding list of proof of how evil she is. 

 

The more I learn about Quinn, the more I realized how badass she is. She's like a Bond villain.  She has a super lair somewhere in the world, in it "gamers" are flayed alive and forced to compete to the death with shitty Wii games.  Anita Sarkeesian watches, eating gluten free pita wafers dipped in John Romero's tears, which flow endlessly as he mourns the death of gaming.

 

The IndieGoGo was allegedly hacked by Zoe Quinn or a cohort of hers in a spiteful attempt to bring down true feminism.

 

God this is dumb.

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There's an Anti-Anita Sarkeesian documentary that some scam artists are trying to make through Patreon funding. All they need is $15,000 per month for an indeterminate amount of time. Gogogo 4Chan!

 

I hope this inspires all the guys making elaborate diagrams with tons of big red arrows and screenshots from 4Chan to band together and make a Glenn Beck-style $10/month network dedicated to their anti-female conspiracy veiled as a pursuit of truth.

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That piece did send me down some weird rabbit holes though.  So YouPorn is planning on sponsoring a Dota 2 team.  Link is to a Reddit AMA that is lacking in interesting Dota questions.

The consensus on the Dota 2 subreddit (i embarrassingly check that about once a day!) seems to be that 1) they're only talking about sponsoring an esports team period and Dota 2 just happens to be one they've mentioned and 2) it's just a publicity stunt and they never actually will because no tournament would willingly advertise porn.

 

Not so sure if I believe that no tournament would associate themselves with porn, but I definitely believe that the bigger ones, ala The International, would rather not.

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There's an Anti-Anita Sarkeesian documentary that some scam artists are trying to make through Patreon funding. All they need is $15,000 per month for an indeterminate amount of time. Gogogo 4Chan!

 

I hope this inspires all the guys making elaborate diagrams with tons of big red arrows and screenshots from 4Chan to band together and make a Glenn Beck-style $10/month network dedicated to their anti-female conspiracy veiled as a pursuit of truth.

 

Hah, one of the creators is the dude who started arguing with forum member Lacabra on Twitter, mostly by ignoring that the attacks on ZQ has anything to do with misogyny. 

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http://nichegamer.net/2014/08/the-schism-of-gaming-zoe-quinn-nepotism-and-white-knight-journalism/

 

I can't stop myself from reading this stuff. The views expressed in this article and elsewhere are so far afield from what I responsibly feel like I can understand and yet I continue to try. Something I've noticed is that many of these pieces repeat the mantra that gamers made games what they are, not the journalists or writers, who are actually seen as threats to this gaming paradise. The unjustified and unearned entitlement is staggering. Years of tying the gamer identity to consumerism has given these people a sense of ownership over games, which is why they feel threatened by anything that can be seen as weakening that ownership. That's a horrible environment for producing meaningful and honest art. 

 

 

I can't dignify this stuff with much more than "loser shit." These are the words and ideas of 19 year old dopes with no practical life experience or accomplishment. (Also, anime avatars.(again sorry good AA'd people of IT)) The idiotic idealism of the callow. As if some blogger needs to recuse themselves if they they know the smallest fish of game developers. The current head of the FCC, which will decide our fundamental information access is a cable company lobbyist. The monetary policy in the U.S. has been dictated by a 30 year streak of Goldman Sachs CEOs and COOs. The iron triangle on Pentagon leadership, legislative committees, and weapons manufacturers/lobbyists. But this is where these children are focusing their petulant rage.     

 

I don't even understand where this fictionalized version of games journalism comes from? (Obviously people with no actual journalistic experience) It has largely been an expanded PR arm of publishing companies, and a tremendous amount of real life valuable journalism is leveraging closely guarded relationships. Greenwald/Snowden, the unfortunate Manning/Lamo/Poulsen incident, Woodward&Bernstein/Deep Throat.

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There's an Anti-Anita Sarkeesian documentary that some scam artists are trying to make through Patreon funding. All they need is $15,000 per month for an indeterminate amount of time. Gogogo 4Chan!

 

I hope this inspires all the guys making elaborate diagrams with tons of big red arrows and screenshots from 4Chan to band together and make a Glenn Beck-style $10/month network dedicated to their anti-female conspiracy veiled as a pursuit of truth.

 

So who wants to start an Anti-Anti-Anita Sarkeesian patreon?

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Hah, one of the creators is the dude who started arguing with forum member Lacabra on Twitter, mostly by ignoring that the attacks on ZQ has anything to do with misogyny. 

I don't think people like that are ignoring anything. I think they legitimately believe there isn't a problem. Which is even worse.

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To be fair, that dude is an expert on tantrums - he's made a whole YouTube channel for that purpose.

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There's an Anti-Anita Sarkeesian documentary that some scam artists are trying to make through Patreon funding. All they need is $15,000 per month for an indeterminate amount of time. Gogogo 4Chan!

 

I hope this inspires all the guys making elaborate diagrams with tons of big red arrows and screenshots from 4Chan to band together and make a Glenn Beck-style $10/month network dedicated to their anti-female conspiracy veiled as a pursuit of truth.

 

Good lord, they're already up to $1,250 a month just for giving updates on their progress.  I hate everything.

 

The Sarkeesian Effect is an upcoming documentary film that will explore how gaming and tech culture have been hijacked by Social Justice Warriors as well as look into the background, ethics, and methodology of some the movement's most prominent voices.  The title is a reference to Anita Sarkeesian, the primary figure in this new shift in gaming culture.  Ms. Sarkeesian's controversial videos and Kickstarter campaign laid the groundwork for the current atmosphere of p*litically c*rrect fear, manipulation, and intimidation.  Thus, the title.

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Good lord, they're already up to $1,250 a month just for giving updates on their progress.  I hate everything.

This may be shocking but when i looked at their 54 or so backers, they seemed to be all white men. Shocking!

 

I was also shocked to find that one of the creators also doesn't believe in global warming...

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Much like it's only bias when it goes against their viewpoints, it's only called nepotism when the community promotes anyone not inline with who these dyed-in-the-wool gamers are and what they believe. People much smarter than me have pointed out how the high levels of access that gaming fans have to developers (as opposed to creatives in other fields) fosters a sense of friendship between the fans and the developers. That happens even on these forums, where the community often feels like they are friends with the Idle Thumbs. Unfortunately, not everyone is as smart and reasonable as the Idle Thumbs community. With a different group of people, adding Danielle as a permanent host would have been met with actual anger. That conflated sense of friendship makes it easier to swallow nepotism when it's benefiting someone who looks like them (ie, straight white men), because it's easier to imagine themselves filling that role. But the second anyone outside their group starts to advance or benefit, it suddenly becomes an attack on their place in the community ("I thought we were friends, how could you be friends with her, what has she ever done").  That's why no one from this gamer group made a peep when Giantbomb recently picked new editors (surprise, they were all white guys), but are up in arms over an indie game developer being friends with other people in the community. Gamers (and honestly, male nerds in general) have been conditioned to identify only with people who like them and no one else.

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I would struggle to call most of what goes on in video game industry hiring "nepotism." People know who you are because they met you at an event or because a coworker is friends with them or something (important news: this happens with all jobs ever), but you aren't getting hired unless you can do the thing you're getting hired to do. Generally speaking the actual people who work in the video game industry are smart and driven. There aren't a lot of game developers getting hired just because they're someone's buddy. I'm sure that stuff is a little looser in game journalism, simply because the skills involved are somewhat more subjective and it's easier to take a chance on someone who might grow into it, but the pay is such garbage that I can't take seriously the notion that there's some kind of big racket going on.

I think that's ignoring a significant amount of privilege in the situation. People who grow up in rich, affluent cities have better access to work and the capital that makes industry possible. People who come from better off positions are better equipped to make sacrifices like unpaid internships (the majority of which are illegal these days). People who grow up in certain demographics (I.E. Whites) are better equipped to make connections because of the way our society has ingrained systemic bias. This is precisely the problem hitting the shit fan right now with the Warner Music Group lawsuit: http://www.newsweek.com/unpaid-internships-warner-music-group-warner-interns-lawsuits-257025

And yeah this happens in every job ever, in all industries, and certainly people don't get hired without qualification at all, except in a few minor cases. And yes there are also arguments for "company culture" etc. There is some grey area here. I understand why people hire based upon personal friendship or familiarity with the person and only an idiot would refuse to network but the entire thing is a double edged sword which also is responsible for the problems we face with systemic discrimination and the entire "ingroup" "outgroup" dynamic. I don't have an answer for it. I don't personally know how to deal with it but to ignore it as a problem is classist, and privilege denial. 

Like I said, I myself benefit from this kind of stuff. I know people who are I believe more talented me, waste away because of poverty, or racial discrimination, or other forms of hierarchical oppression. I don't know what the answer to the problem is but I want to do something better. 

 

Much like it's only bias when it goes against their viewpoints, it's only called nepotism when the community promotes anyone not inline with who these dyed-in-the-wool gamers are and what they believe. People much smarter than me have pointed out how the high levels of access that gaming fans have to developers (as opposed to creatives in other fields) fosters a sense of friendship between the fans and the developers. That happens even on these forums, where the community often feels like they are friends with the Idle Thumbs. Unfortunately, not everyone is as smart and reasonable as the Idle Thumbs community. With a different group of people, adding Danielle as a permanent host would have been met with actual anger. That conflated sense of friendship makes it easier to swallow nepotism when it's benefiting someone who looks like them (ie, straight white men), because it's easier to imagine themselves filling that role. But the second anyone outside their group starts to advance or benefit, it suddenly becomes an attack on their place in the community ("I thought we were friends, how could you be friends with her, what has she ever done").  That's why no one from this gamer group made a peep when Giantbomb recently picked new editors (surprise, they were all white guys), but are up in arms over an indie game developer being friends with other people in the community. Gamers (and honestly, male nerds in general) have been conditioned to identify only with people who like them and no one else.

Strongly agreed. The entire "gamer culture" thing and over identification with creators is exactly one of my gripes. 

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I think that's ignoring a significant amount of privilege in the situation. People who grow up in rich, affluent cities have better access to work and the capital that makes industry possible. People who come from better off positions are better equipped to make sacrifices like unpaid internships (the majority of which are illegal these days). People who grow up in certain demographics (I.E. Whites) are better equipped to make connections because of the way our society has ingrained systemic bias. This is precisely the problem hitting the shit fan right now with the Warner Music Group lawsuit: http://www.newsweek.com/unpaid-internships-warner-music-group-warner-interns-lawsuits-257025

And yeah this happens in every job ever, in all industries, and certainly people don't get hired without qualification at all, except in a few minor cases. And yes there are also arguments for "company culture" etc. There is some grey area here. I understand why people hire based upon personal friendship or familiarity with the person and only an idiot would refuse to network but the entire thing is a double edged sword which also is responsible for the problems we face with systemic discrimination and the entire "ingroup" "outgroup" dynamic. I don't have an answer for it. I don't personally know how to deal with it but to ignore it as a problem is classist, and privilege denial. 

Like I said, I myself benefit from this kind of stuff. I know people who are I believe more talented me, waste away because of poverty, or racial discrimination, or other forms of hierarchical oppression. I don't know what the answer to the problem is but I want to do something better. 

 

This is absolutely true but none of it has anything to do with anything that's been going on with any of the accusations this week. Nobody calling for Quinn's head (or making any of the other ridiculous accusations being made) are concerned about the factors you're talking about. That doesn't discount the points you raise, I'm just saying it's not what I was responding to. Nepotism isn't the same thing as general class disparity and racial privilege, it's more specific. The subjects of nepotism are weighted in various directions because of those other things, but so is everything else, because it affects everything. 

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Hah, one of the creators is the dude who started arguing with forum member Lacabra on Twitter, mostly by ignoring that the attacks on ZQ has anything to do with misogyny. 

And one of those guys? Went to court for beating his girlfriend. The right wing Alberta judge let him off on Self Defense, but he definitely beat her. Lovely.

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Hah, one of the creators is the dude who started arguing with forum member Lacabra on Twitter, mostly by ignoring that the attacks on ZQ has anything to do with misogyny. 

 

Best part of that exchange must be "What MRAs? I am no MRA, I am an Egaltarian".

 

I AM AN EGALTARIAN!

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There's an Anti-Anita Sarkeesian documentary that some scam artists are trying to make through Patreon funding. All they need is $15,000 per month for an indeterminate amount of time. Gogogo 4Chan!

 

I hope this inspires all the guys making elaborate diagrams with tons of big red arrows and screenshots from 4Chan to band together and make a Glenn Beck-style $10/month network dedicated to their anti-female conspiracy veiled as a pursuit of truth.

 

We Hunted The Mammoth pointed out that one of these guys is a Dark Enlightenment supporter. Basically they believe we should all go back to feudalism. Of course, both of them are nasty pieces of work.

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Isn't Dark Enlightenment basically just modern fascism? I don't really know a whole lot about it.

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It shouldn't surprise me that these guys love their fascism. I watched one of the youtube videos (I know, I know, mistake) about the supposed ethical breach in games journalism and the guy narrating the video ended it with a warning against anyone not on his side, and then he spliced in clip of Bane from the most recent Batman movie to hammer home his threat. So you have an unquestioning support of fascist principles espoused by a "badass" fictional cartoon character. 

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