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Roderick

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rust me on this, I grew up far from middle class.  I had no friends to pull strings.  As far as I have seen in my life this is NOT how business is done, regardless of how movies want us to think.

 

Also, I would call anyone out for this.  I don't see how calling Zoe out is misogyny at all.  Wouldn't letting it go because she was a woman be misogyny?  If this was a guy sleeping with someone for press coverage shouldn't we all freak out the same way?  How about instead of saying we should take any one section of people more seriously we just do that and say that this was wrong.

 

Once again, not how business is done.

 

80% of Jobs are found through networking:

http://www.recruitingblogs.com/profiles/blogs/80-of-today-s-jobs-are-landed-through-networking

 

You can consider yourself atypical. Wealthy people tend to know other wealthy people. There is ample data on shrinking class mobility on how this plays out. These people are not realistically attacked for privilege. She is being attacked by what some men call an unfair advantage. I'm saying that attack is inherently misogynistic.  

 

and no, it would not be misogyny to not humiliate her for being a woman. The point I'm trying to make is that men are not humiliated for receive the biases they receive. No white man is going to be targeted by a hate group because of his inherent advantage. Zoe was. The world "lets go" natural advantages of being wealthy, male, and white all the time. What is different in this case?

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And I guess there is this.

 

You seriously think the public has a legitimate interest in combing through an argument from her private relationship like this?

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Wow this is some neanderthal shit. Nice reality check for why the term gamer still carries a social stigma when you have ethical geniuses like this running a hate campaign for the sake of gamz journalism intergrity.

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Can we not post private Facebook conversations on these forums? I know it's out there on the net, but seeing someone posting it on here is really gross and depressing to me. 

Edit: I also feel uncomfortable with how long this conversation has gone on. Her personal life is nobody's business, and I have no idea why so many people are so endlessly fascinated with it.

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80% of Jobs are found through networking:

http://www.recruitingblogs.com/profiles/blogs/80-of-today-s-jobs-are-landed-through-networking

 

You can consider yourself atypical.

 

and no, it would not be misogyny to not humiliate her for being a woman. The point I'm trying to make is that men are not humiliated for receive the biases they receive. No white man is going to be targeted by a hate group because of his inherent advantage. Zoe was. The world "lets go" natural advantages of being wealthy, male, and white all the time. What is different in this case?

 

Excuse me for not thinking that was done is "networking".  I see her relationship with Patrick Klepick as "networking".  Met through mutual job intersections, worked together on various projects.  I am not a fan of his, but I don't see what they did as wrong as that is pretty standard.  This does not fall into that category.

 

I think everyone should be held to the regard that we are currently holding her, honestly.  Male or female.  

 

The Robert Ashley thing is super interesting, honestly, and I get just as annoyed when things like that come to light.

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Also, I would call anyone out for this.  I don't see how calling Zoe out is misogyny at all.  Wouldn't letting it go because she was a woman be misogyny?  If this was a guy sleeping with someone for press coverage shouldn't we all freak out the same way?  How about instead of saying we should take any one section of people more seriously we just do that and say that this was wrong.

 

There potentially was an ethical debate that could have happened at one point.  But it's grown WAAAAY beyond that.  There is a massive difference between an intelligent discussion about press coverage and threatening a woman with death, rape, phone calls, and actual real life visits to her residence.  The former is not misogyny.  The latter is and it's what's happening now.  It's not that she's a woman and should therefore be immune to scrutiny.  But that level of scrutiny should be the same as it would be for any man.  I very much doubt if the roles were reversed and an angry ex-girlfriend made a blog about her boyfriend in the games industry he would get this level of treatment.  If anything the ex probably end up getting what we're seeing now with Zoe.

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 think everyone should be held to the regard that we are currently holding her, honestly.  Male or female.  

 

Well, why don't you lead with example and start with a bigger fish than her?

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You seriously think the public has a legitimate interest in combing through an argument from her private relationship like this?

 

I don't think the public has an interest, which is why I quoted

As far as I know, there is literally no proof of anything you're talking about. The "proof" I saw that she hooked up with Grayson is a Vine of her hanging out with him. Seriously?

and linked what's considered proof. You can have whatever interest you like with that.

In the meantime it would be pretty awesome not to interpret intent into my posts that's not there.

 

 

Can we not post private Facebook conversations on these forums? I know it's out there on the net, but seeing someone posting it on here is really gross and depressing to me.

 

Sure thing, it's removed. Sorry if that's a breach of ToS/etiquette, I figured, as you mentioned, if it's out there and can clarify something. But yes, it is all things considered not even relevant.

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This is nothing about "what she may have done" which I do not care about. I'm not calling these allegations "networking." I'm saying that caring about her alleged behavior and the treatment she received is misogyny. These attacks are based on her gender. No man is treated this way.

 

Take Dov Charney for instance. He has used his privilege and power to force employees to sleep with him. It was bad enough that a lawsuit was raised. Do you think his using his privilege and sex has received the same treatment? He broke actual laws, and barely received a title change.

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Fuck video games journalism's integrity. Fuck it forever. I could not possibly give less of a fuck if the people write about games that HAPPEN TO BE MADE BY THEIR FRIENDS. How fucking terrible to imagine that something could possibly be written about a game that the writer cares about, not just as a fun experience but as a work of art that was created by a person. I hate that this is something people even care about, much less care about enough to MENTALLY TORTURE SOMEONE OVER.

 

Burn it all fucking down.

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All I have left to say is that Twitter seems to have abandoned this debacle. Which means people are probably done getting their flaccid jabs in (because they never cared that much in the first place). So it's probably done.

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There potentially was an ethical debate that could have happened at one point.  But it's grown WAAAAY beyond that.  There is a massive difference between an intelligent discussion about press coverage and threatening a woman with death, rape, phone calls, and actual real life visits to her residence.  The former is not misogyny.  The latter is and it's what's happening now.  It's not that she's a woman and should therefore be immune to scrutiny.  But that level of scrutiny should be the same as it would be for any man.  I very much doubt if the roles were reversed and an angry ex-girlfriend made a blog about her boyfriend in the games industry he would get this level of treatment.  If anything the ex probably end up getting what we're seeing now with Zoe.

 

I agree with you.  The people who are threatening her are 100% in the wrong. 

 

Well, why don't you lead with example and start with a bigger fish than her?

 

We should start with the fish we have instead of casting back and waiting for it to be right.  feelthedarkness brought up Dov Charney, that man should be punished to the fullest extent of the law and had it happen before it got nearly as far as it did.  

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Can we not post private Facebook conversations on these forums? I know it's out there on the net, but seeing someone posting it on here is really gross and depressing to me. 

Edit: I also feel uncomfortable with how long this conversation has gone on. Her personal life is nobody's business, and I have no idea why so many people are so endlessly fascinated with it.

 

I fully agree and support this.  I'm not even comfortable replying to try and explain how fucked up this is, but feel some requirement to when I see posts that literally scare me in their logic. 

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Yeah, this discussion is in no way relevant to the topic of feminism. If someone wants to argue over a stranger's personal life they should start a thread called I am Overly Invested in Who is Fucking Whom on the Internet.

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Can we not post private Facebook conversations on these forums? I know it's out there on the net, but seeing someone posting it on here is really gross and depressing to me. 

 

This was at me, presumably? I pasted someone's post of their opinion on a thing, without naming them; I don't think it's that "gross", especially compared to posting that image of Zoe and her ex's private conversation (which I'd studiously avoided) without warning.

 

EDIT: I now realise that gormanate was in fact referring to the posting of Zoe's conversation. I looked away quickly enough not to realise it was Facebook.

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I believe that elected officials personal lives should be an open book.

What the fuck? Is this real life? It is not your or anyone else's business what someone gets up to in their own home until such time as it is proven that what they're doing is harmful to other people. Sure, suspicions can merit investigation, but it is not the job of an internet-born angry mob to do so. Even further, the people under scrutiny should be these alleged journalists, and not Zoe. Instead the internet is sharing pictures of Zoe in the nude with her friends through Twitter, etc. Not to mention the rape and death threats. That's what's happening here and that's what you're defending. You're wrong. Stop it.

And let's not even get into the fact that Zoe volunteered for none of this attention. People targeted her long before any of these accusations simply because she is a woman and she made a game about real life issues instead of shooting dudes with guns.

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This was at me, presumably? I pasted someone's post of their opinion on a thing, without naming them; I don't think it's that "gross", especially compared to posting that image of Zoe and her ex's private conversation (which I'd studiously avoided) without warning.

Nope, that was about something else!

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What the fuck? Is this real life? It is not your or anyone else's business what someone gets up to in their own home until such time as it is proven that what they're doing is harmful to other people. Sure, suspicions can merit investigation, but it is not the job of an internet-born angry mob to do so. Even further, the people under scrutiny should be these alleged journalists, and not Zoe. Instead the internet is sharing pictures of Zoe in the nude with her friends through Twitter, etc. Not to mention the rape and death threats. That's what's happening here and that's what you're defending. You're wrong. Stop it.

And let's not even get into the fact that Zoe volunteered for none of this attention. People targeted her long before any of these accusations simply because she is a woman and she made a game about real life issues instead of shooting dudes with guns.

 

You also neglected the part where I said that elected official represent us, and as such I would like to know who they are.  So thanks for skipping over that to prove a point.

 

You might think this is an internet born angry mob, but there isn't a ton of places anyone can go for actual coverage as everyone seems to know everyone so they won't cover it, or they are worried about lawsuits so they won't start.  

 

Also "Zoe in the nude with her friends through Twitter"  what? No. No.  Please don't get people calling for this to be following into in the same boat as people doing terrible and nasty things.  That is... What? No...

 

I will also argue that Zoe did volunteer for attention as she has given talks in the past and is trying to start her own game jam.

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@Lumberbaron, please come into private-messaging with me. I can answer many of your concerns without complicating things in this thread. 

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You also neglected the part where I said that elected official represent us, and as such I would like to know who they are.  So thanks for skipping over that to prove a point.

 

You might think this is an internet born angry mob, but there isn't a ton of places anyone can go for actual coverage as everyone seems to know everyone so they won't cover it, or they are worried about lawsuits so they won't start.  

 

Also "Zoe in the nude with her friends through Twitter"  what? No. No.  Please don't get people calling for this to be following into in the same boat as people doing terrible and nasty things.  That is... What? No...

 

I will also argue that Zoe did volunteer for attention as she has given talks in the past and is trying to start her own game jam.

 

Interacting with people in public does not volunteer you as a target for whatever harassment the internet deems appropriate. I don't care that you "want to know who they are." Right now, the real experience of privacy being brutally violated is more important than the incredibly hypothetical need for ethics to be adhered to, especially considering that Quinn is not the person who allegedly violated said ethics.

 

Also, there are reasons that actual journalists aren't covering the "scandal" surrounding Quinn's sexual life. Not only is it small-as-fuck potatoes, but it's complete hearsay and legitimizing it through journalistic coverage does more to harm the people involved (all the people, but especially Quinn) than leaving it unaddressed. That's journalistic ethics, choosing not to rake the muck of someone's personal details without any benefit to you or your readers besides schadenfreude.

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I'm pretty much done talking about this because the discussion here has been more infuriating than therapeutic or reaffirming (which generally is my experience in this thread). I'm capping it off with this writeup by everyone's favorite SJW, Patrick Klepek, who manages to hit the ethics thing tastefully and really covered all of my arguments in the best possible way - http://patrickklepek.tumblr.com/post/95293807754/im-sure-youve-been-asked-already-but-how-do-you-feel

 

In completely different news, there's a new Storybundle that includes a compilation of the first six issues of Five out of Ten, a great independent emag with a lot of great writers including some of my favorite female journos like Maddy Myers and Samantha Allen - http://storybundle.com/

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Oops I was replying on my phone and didn't realize there was a whole new page of posts I hadn't yet read. Everyone basically said everything that needed saying. Sorry for prolonging this miserable train wreck.

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