Feminism

[jmbossy]

So i know the current discussion is pretty important in regards to Feminism... but there's something I thought should be shared...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=WtxVh1D0E1g

 

found through an article on Polygon (linked below) which questions whether or not this is celebratory or offensive (worth a read before discourse).

http://www.polygon.com/2014/1/29/5351298/is-ultimate-gay-fighter-funny-or-just-offensive

 

yeah. so there's also this.

[Zeusthecat]

If zero attempts at a personal apology were made, then yeah I can agree with you that the public one is more to save face than to actually be remorseful.  I am going to argue with you a bit on your rules though.

 

For rule 1, I'm again going to say how do you know you need to apologize?  Let's say someone says something I think is offensive but they didn't think it was at the time.  Clearly they're not going to apologize until after I or someone else points out that it's offensive, at which point they've been "caught".  Otherwise you're going to have to preemptively apologize for everything you say because you never know who may be upset by it.  I think maybe a clearer meaning would be "before you get caught in the public", assuming at least some kind of personal attempt was made.

 

Rule 2 I agree with.

 

Rule 3 is tricky to me.  Personally, if someone hurts me, I want to know why.  An apology doesn't have much meaning to me without knowing the reason why the thing was said in the first place.  If someone says something because of depression or some other personal life problem, then I'm going to be more understanding and accepting of that remorse.  If all that's said is "I'm sorry", I'm going to question the sincerity of it without more context.  I want "I'm sorry and here's why".  It doesn't justify the inciting action, but it will tell me the intent and that means a lot to me.

 

Okay, fair points. I agree that there are some instances where you may not know you need to apologize. Those are typically honest mistakes though. This guy clearly knew what he did was wrong though, especially considering the fact that one of his responses was so graphic that they had to blur it out.

 

As far as your other point, I think a 'why' is only appropriate if it provides direct context to what was said or done. In this case he gave a 'why' that comes across more as an attempt to justify what he said. The 'why' in this case should have been because he was drunk and horny and had no sense of self control, not because he is an alcoholic and his brother died.

[JonCole]

I think what you're looking for is "I'm sorry and here's why", not "I'm sorry for doing what I did to hurt you but I'm an alcoholic so I couldn't help myself".

 

It should be an explanation not an excuse.

[Zeusthecat]

I think what you're looking for is "I'm sorry and here's why", not "I'm sorry for doing what I did to hurt you but I'm an alcoholic so I couldn't help myself".

 

It should be an explanation not an excuse.

 

That is much better said than my drawn out response. Thanks.

[SecretAsianMan]

I think what you're looking for is "I'm sorry and here's why", not "I'm sorry for doing what I did to hurt you but I'm an alcoholic so I couldn't help myself".

It should be an explanation not an excuse.

That I agree with.

 

Also Zeus, I wanna make it clear I was speaking generically and not necessarily about that specific apology.  I mostly agree with you his apology.

[Bjorn]

So i know the current discussion is pretty important in regards to Feminism... but there's something I thought should be shared...

 

found through an article on Polygon (linked below) which questions whether or not this is celebratory or offensive (worth a read before discourse).

 

yeah. so there's also this.

 

I wish I could remember what comedian I saw break this down.   The argument was that it's fine to draw on stereotypes, biases, and various -isms in comedy.  But ultimately the punchline should never be hurtful to a disempowered group.  So you can make jokes about racism, but the punchline should be turned outward on the racists, rather than be about further dehumanizing a particular demographic. 

 

It seems that the creator of that game fails to see how some of his characters fail to pass that test.  Having a token lesbian and a black thug are problematic.  The joke lazily flops down on a bed of old stereotypes instead of transcending that to make some more interesting joke or commentary. 

 

Cheap Shot: But maybe he's the kind of guy who thinks that Scary Move 37 is the height of comedy and has never heard of Blazing Saddles.

[Zeusthecat]

That I agree with.

 

Also Zeus, I wanna make it clear I was speaking generically and not necessarily about that specific apology.  I mostly agree with you his apology.

 

No worries man. We're just having some polite discourse.

[syntheticgerbil]

I didn't find his apology very compelling at all and the newer Kotaku article I think points out that disingenuousness somewhat (e.g. They weren't actually "friends"). Also using an excuse while saying you aren't using an excuse doesn't make it so; I'm sure many of us have had rough times but managed to avoid sending repeated xxx private messages to business acquaintances.

It's pretty similar to the Penny Arcade guy's apology as well. Start with a sob story first to excuse the behavior. I give up with this stuff. Really just curious if he's only apologizing for this because he was caught or if it is just this occurrence so far since some Neogaf forum says there's more.

[Ben X]

We're pretty much all saying the same thing here, but I think giving a public statement (not necessarily an apology) is not something you should blame someone for if the issue has become public knowledge, plus it will generally be helpful - if it's penitent (sincere or not), it's another public voice saying this behaviour is not okay; if not then at least people are aware of that person's stance.

 

Acceptable statement formats would be:

"After listening to public discussion, I have realised that my behaviour was unacceptable"

"I agree that my behaviour was unacceptable, I erred on this occasion because of personal issues"

"I think my behaviour was acceptable and here's why".

 

In the second one, "personal issues" is all that needs be said; any more detail than that is only there for sympathy votes. 

[Hermie]

Being bullied because of your gender? Have you tried concealing your identity and not communicating at all?

[Merus]

I'd think it was a bit weird if a public apology was directed to a specific individual. I'd probably consider that grandstanding, in the same way that I consider donating to charities as part of an apology grandstanding. Then again, I think it's fine to mention in the public apology that you've apologised to the person you hurt in private, and I don't think that's happened here.

 

I wish I could remember what comedian I saw break this down.

 

Patton Oswalt, probably. It's a great piece.

[Ben X]

Being bullied because of your gender? Have you tried concealing your identity and not communicating at all?

 

chat: "Sup guys"

You: Omg, im a GIRL u know, geez.

Do they "Find out" like this?

 

Gaaah.

[clyde]

Being bullied because of your gender? Have you tried concealing your identity and not communicating at all?

That community sounds awful. I wonder if it would be a good idea to make a Lords Management that has an aesthetic that is displeasing to misogynists, but pleasing to rational people.

[Twig]

That community sounds awful. I wonder if it would be a good idea to make a Lords Management that has an aesthetic that is displeasing to misogynists, but pleasing to rational people.

I think I annoy my friends on a regular basis because I constantly complain about how almost all of the females of Dota 2 are the stereotypical fantasy fare. Low necklines, revealing OR super tight clothing, etc. Queen of Pain is one thing, she's a succubus, that's that whole mythology covered, whatever, it sucks or it doesn't based on your tolerance of existing fantasy creatures.

 

But then you have Crystal Maiden, this sick motherfuckin' ice mage, and she's wearing a bunch of fur, but still has a ton of cleavage and exposed upper thigh. Only two females ever felt counter to the trend. Phantom Assassin is pretty rad looking and has armor that isn't COMPLETELY ridiculous (i.e., she's completely covered from head to toe, but her breast plate is just a BIT too breasty if you know what I mean). Aaaand then Valve updated her face texture at one point to make her a lot prettier. She's still easily the least, I dunno, overtly feminine? Wait! I almost forgot because she's still new and I haven't actually played her yet: Legion Commander is about on par with PA.

 

What really annoys me, though, is that Dota 2 has extensive support for custom items, created by users, sold to players once chosen by the community or Valve, and everyone follows the same pattern. I was super excited to finally see a Lina set that actually covered her cleavage!

 

So what I'm saying is, bring it clyde. BRING IT.

[clyde]

I love the idea that modest clothing on the female characters would be enough to make the undesirables find another game. I was imagining something more drastic, but I don't know what; maybe a Hunger Games theme.

[SecretAsianMan]

I would find it fascinating if the more overtly sexy female characters were less effective than the reasonable ones, and then seeing how many people played with them anyway.

[Twig]

I love the idea that modest clothing on the female characters would be enough to make the undesirables find another game. I was imagining something more drastic, but I don't know what; maybe a Hunger Games theme.

Hah, well, that's not quite what I was getting at. Mostly just an excuse to complain.

 

Why would a Hunger Games theme be displeasing to misogynists? Because the main character is a girl? U:

[clyde]

Hah, well, that's not quite what I was getting at. Mostly just an excuse to complain.

Why would a Hunger Games theme be displeasing to misogynists? Because the main character is a girl? U:

I don't have a logical reason for a possible correalation. I was going to say "Twilight themed" because I would think that the woman-hating crowd would classify it as a chick-thing and dismiss it, but then I remembered that Twilight is already kinda misogynistic and so I figured I'd go with the next series to take the young ladies book-market by storm.

[Twig]

Ah, fair enough. Although I know a lot of dudes like the Hunger Games movies, so it may not be the best choice if that's your metric, heh.

[clyde]

Oh, I don't want to shut out the dudes. I'm just talking about making the game less appealing for misogynists.

[Bjorn]

Gone Home: The Lords Management Edition.

 

 

PROBLEM SOLVED!

[Hermie]

Oh man, now I want a Sam Greenbriar announcer for Dota 2. 

[prettyunsmart]

Oh man, now I want a Sam Greenbriar announcer for Dota 2. 

 

"Dear Katie, I could tell that Lonnie was upset about our bottom tower going down, but she wasn't saying much. She just sat there watching approaching creep wave come our way."

[SecretAsianMan]

Woman on tumblr takes horrible comments about her and turns it into an art project

[Problem Machine]

A revealing perspective on the implications of language