Jump to content
Roderick

Feminism

Recommended Posts

Unbe-fucking-lievable. This is like the fourth or fifth time someone has tried to reason with you, at length, and you have quoted one line of their post out of context and retorted as though it were representative of the whole. More often than not, you seem to even misinterpret that line, whether willfully or not. You're not listening. At all.

 

Fuck it. You are obviously, obviously more interested in defending your position than in actually hearing what people are saying and parsing it into your worldview. This is garbage. I'm done. Maybe I can communicate with you again at some point in the future, when you've demonstrated some capacity for actually hearing and interpreting the stances of others, developed a little bit of goddamn empathy, developed beyond this shallow guise of open-mindedness concealing a circle of self-justifying rhetoric.

 

I tried.

i read the whole thing i just responded to that one piece, just like the many times people have done that to me, and you want to defend you position more than listen to what i have to say, you didn't try at all.

 

you just can't imagine how somebody could think that achieving equality is something that would take solving the issues of both men and women, not just solving the issues of women, or how someone can support specific parts of a movement but not be behind the thing as a whole, you need to learn some empathy and understanding instead of assuming that if someone doesn't totally agree with you they are totally against you 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jesus. Just... wow. You can say you read the things people say all you want, but your words clearly show otherwise.

 

Um. So. Actually on topic, I saw the kickstarter trailer for the sequel to River City Ransom today, and maybe it's just that I'm super sensitive right now but it seemed kind of sexist? Like, there are two women in the video, one is the only person in a random selection of people who doesn't play games and apparently doesn't work during the day, the other one gets hit by a baseball. Am I just imagining things? It's kind of too bad because other than that the game looks neat, though I don't have the disposable income to back something like that right now anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"The actual point is, there's a conflict right now between those who want to support women and those who want to silence them. But declining to be one of the former, you are ceding to the latter by default." 

 

no you don't have to be one or the other

 

I guess I don't really want to get in on this argument, but... this is why he said "ceding". If you're not supporting women you are ceding to those who want to silence them. I just thought I would point this out because it looked like you missed that word and therefore the point

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess I don't really want to get in on this argument, but... this is why he said "ceding". If you're not supporting women you are ceding to those who want to silence them. I just thought I would point this out because it looked like you missed that word and therefore the point

i have made it clear that i support women but i support men also, and that i don't want to silence women, so that argument was not about anything i had said or anything i believe, and is actually a nonsense argument meant to silence me.

 

anyway, here is another part of equality that feminism wouldn't tackle, because women have the privilege in this case 

 

http://youtu.be/3S7v4fuguHI

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm glad you are tackling that problem while we feminists focus on what we consider to be higher priorities. Teamwork!

I hope you manage to get those pension-requirements equal for both genders, but I'd prefer less conscription rather than more.

But. What if the shorter requirement for women is an attempt to encourage more women to enter the workplace? I'd prefer a more equal quantity of women in the workplace if I have to choose. You know, being a feminist and all.

If men want equal requirements for years served to get pensions, I recommend they boycott working until they are back in demand, then we can try to bring their numbers back to an equilibrium by offering them better pension deals.

This page seems somewhat relevant, though I didn't read it all.

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2011/mar/08/international-womens-day-pay-gap

I think some would say that the thing to take away from that first graph is that male secretaries and male social-workers should be making more money. While I think that would be a good idea, I'm more interested in the larger scope inequalities.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm glad you are tackling that problem while we feminists focus on what we consider to be higher priorities. Teamwork!

I hope you manage to get those pension-requirements equal for both genders, but I'd prefer less conscription rather than more.

But. What if the shorter requirement for women is an attempt to encourage more women to enter the workplace? I'd prefer a more equal quantity of women in the workplace if I have to choose. You know, being a feminist and all.

If men want equal requirements for years served to get pensions, I recommend they boycott working until they are back in demand, then we can try to bring their numbers back to an equilibrium by offering them better pension deals.

This page seems somewhat relevant, though I didn't read it all.

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2011/mar/08/international-womens-day-pay-gap

I think some would say that the thing to take away from that first graph is that male secretaries and male social-workers should be making more money. While I think that would be a good idea, I'm more interested in the larger scope inequalities.

well it's not totally relevant because it is about pay gaps not pensions, but i can't tell how the gaps are worked out, it seems to be worked out in a way that just shows that because there are more male workers in a field they get overall paid more and vice versa, because it is pretty obvious that if a field is dominated by one gender that gender will be paid more on average (because there would be more higher paid roles for that gender), it doesn't actually show that two workers male/female working the exact same job have different pay, I'm not saying that doesn't happen, but statistics can be showed in many different ways that give misleading information 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Aren't pensions a form of payment for labor? Maybe it's different in England, but typically in the U.S., pensions are offered as a way to pay people less salary while maintaining the appearance of an attractive compensation.

Edit: I got good news thestalkinghead, it looks like the U.K. Is phasing that pension inequality out!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Aren't pensions a form of payment for labor? Maybe it's different in England, but typically in the U.S., pensions are offered as a way to pay people less salary while maintaining the appearance of an attractive compensation.

there are quite a few different types of pension, ones you pay into yourself (you could call a private pension) there are pensions your job pays into (different rates and pensions for different companies) but there is also a state pension that everybody gets (different amounts for date born and how many years worked) from the government, and you are entitled to claim them all once you reach retirement age (which is increasing all the time and the gap between men and women is decreasing) but is just seems insane that women can retire earlier even though they live longer, and at the same time men are expected to do the dangerous backbreaking jobs (which probably reduced their lifespan), and women to do the safer more civilised jobs (which they could more easily do at an older age)

 

edit: yeah i know (not 100% guaranteed though) but not entirely getting rid of it, and they are increasing it all the time, I'm not sure if i could ever retire

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As a feminist, I do not expect men to do the more dangerous jobs. So, I hope that helps.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As a feminist, I do not expect men to do the more dangerous jobs. So, I hope that helps.

but would you fight for more women to do the dangerous jobs? because it's fine protesting that women are less likely to be managers or other high level positions (very cozy) , but unless women are pushed/encouraged to do the more dangerous (and higher paid) jobs it will still be men who have to do them, and would you fight for men to get more secretarial/administration jobs? because otherwise women will still dominate those areas 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

but would you fight for more women to do the dangerous jobs? because it's fine protesting that women are less likely to be managers or other high level positions (very cozy) , but unless women are pushed/encouraged to do the more dangerous (and higher paid) jobs it will still be men who have to do them, and would you fight for men to get more secretarial/administration jobs? because otherwise women will still dominate those areas

I'm a radical. I don't want anyone to do the dangerous jobs. I won't stop them from doing dangerous jobs, but I would prefer they stop.

No, I won't fight to give men more secretarial jobs. I am willing to accept that imbalance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm a radical. I don't want anyone to do the dangerous jobs. I won't stop them from doing dangerous jobs, but I would prefer they stop.

No, I won't fight to give men more secretarial jobs. I am willing to accept that imbalance.

i am optimistic of the future and think there will be a time where robots do all the dangerous jobs and humans are free to pursue happiness, but that isn't the reality we live in now, someone has to do the dangerous jobs and if women wont do them, men will have to, and that acceptance of imbalance if it concerns men is why i don't fully agree with feminism  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why do you expect other people to do dangerous work. If it's so important, do it yourself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why do you expect other people to do dangerous work. If it's so important, do it yourself.

i really have no idea what you are saying, are you saying I personally should do every dangerous job on the planet or that just men should do them, or are you saying that if nobody did dangerous work the world would just be fine, because people just do them because they want to?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't want anyone to do dangerous work at all, but I'm not going to stop them.

You, on the other hand, want to make other people do dangerous work even if they don't want to.

Edit: sorry if that was too harsh, I'd still buy you a beer or coffee.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't want anyone to do dangerous work at all, but I'm not going to stop them.

You, on the other hand, want to make other people do dangerous work even if they don't want to.

no, it's just reality that people have to do dangerous work, and the patriarchy has made it so that only men do this dangerous work, i want equality, and that means both men and women have to have equal share of both the good and the bad parts of society

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What the fuck happened to this thread?

Sorry, the idea that some labor is mandatory enough that people have to be forced into it riles me up. I'll be quiet so it can return to the topic of feminism.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some people just want to cause chaos and, in turn, command the attention of a given group of people. This thread is not the only example of thestalkinghead doing this. Ignore button, people.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ignore button, people.

I have issues with using that. I don't blame anyone for doing so, but it feels nonconstructive and cowardly. (EDIT: Cowardly is not the right word. I meant more... like it's just Giving Up. But maybe that's for the best in some cases.) It's probably unreasonable, but it is how I feel.

 

Not that this whole shitstorm has been any better, I guess.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have issues with using that. I don't blame anyone for doing so, but it feels nonconstructive and cowardly. (EDIT: Cowardly is not the right word. I meant more... like it's just Giving Up. But maybe that's for the best in some cases.) It's probably unreasonable, but it is how I feel.

 

Not that this whole shitstorm has been any better, I guess.

 

See, that's my feeling, but especially the last part. I'd like to believe everyone has something to contribute, but I can't think of a single positive thing I've gotten out of the past twelve pages. What's the point of talking to people on the internet if all it does is make me mad and sad?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've enjoyed the Thumbs forums a LOT more once I decided to start using the Ignore Button. I've only used it about four or five times. It does mean I miss out on some hilarious trolling, but overall it makes for a much more pleasant experience.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

no, it's just reality that people have to do dangerous work, and the patriarchy has made it so that only men do this dangerous work, i want equality, and that means both men and women have to have equal share of both the good and the bad parts of society

Many women would like to take on dangerous work. Historically, relatively dangerous blue-collar work was also very lucrative, and women were usually excluded from that work. For example, there are a number of famous labour cases in my jurisdiction involving discrimination against female firefighters and female railway workers ("Meoirin" is the most famous example). Being allowed to take on dangerous, well-paying work is a form of male privilege.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×