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Roderick

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The tenor of the article is Mike is most worried about the negativity he sees directed at himself, PA, and PAX.  He loves PAX and PA and doesn't want them damaged.  It isn't about how he's realized the damage rape culture causes, it's about how there was this uproar that needed to be taken care of, and pulling the merch made the uproar worse, implying outright stating not pulling it would've been preferable.  Why in the world would he possibly regret pulling the merch if he understood why it was bad?  The fact is he hasn't grown from this as far as I can tell from what he's said, he's just learned to not do the behaviour that brings the sharp pitchforks.  Which is why he's going to fuck up and do something shitty in the future, because he has a fundamental misunderstanding.

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The tenor of the article is Mike is most worried about the negativity he sees directed at himself, PA, and PAX.  He loves PAX and PA and doesn't want them damaged.  It isn't about how he's realized the damage rape culture causes, it's about how there was this uproar that needed to be taken care of, and pulling the merch made the uproar worse, implying outright stating not pulling it would've been preferable.  Why in the world would he possibly regret pulling the merch if he understood why it was bad?  The fact is he hasn't grown from this as far as I can tell from what he's said, he's just learned to not do the behaviour that brings the sharp pitchforks.  Which is why he's going to fuck up and do something shitty in the future, because he has a fundamental misunderstanding.

 

That's kind of how I'm reading it too and what I'm afraid of.  It doesn't sound so much like "I'm sorry" as it is "I'm sorry I got caught" or maybe "I'm sorry everyone's so mad".  He's acknowledging that people are upset, which is a good step, but he's not saying that he understands why or what he's going to do to prevent it in the future, which is a bad step.

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Language is important twig.  The fact that he used those words provides a window into his belief, subconsciously or deliberately.  This might not be the case if english were his second language or he wrote this under extremely time-limited circumstances, but we can safely assume that is not the case.

 

The logical follow-through juvenal is making is not

 

"he wrote the bad thing > he shouldn't write the bad thing"

 

it's

 

"he wrote the bad thing > he's thinking the bad thing"

 

edit 2: I realize it might be frightening to apply such a powerful meaning to the language you might throw around seemingly carelessly on a daily basis, that you might suddenly be judged for making some small mistake in your writing.  It can also be seen as a very comforting generalization because if you're a very morally fully thought-out person your language will automatically click into being correct without you having to worry about it, and if you're not and your language betrays your prejudice, you can look back at what you've written and use it to find your own biases to better yourself.

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Well. I am-- I was optimistic, and I believe that the apology was written with the best of intentions, but you do bring up some super cogent concerns. I still feel like waiting and seeing if he is able to follow up on those intentions or if this is just a token, but given the points you bring up, I'm... less optimistic.

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Language IS important. He's a fucking artist, and it can be clearly seen in all of his posts (related to this or not) that he's a pretty shitty writer. Your argument is not convincing in the slightest. It screams of knowing that Mike has done shitty things in the past and then assuming everything he says in the present or future is insincere. That's not something I can ever agree with. He may still be a shitty person, but at some point you have to stop assuming the worst, or he'll never get better in anyone's eyes, including his own. Hence: bleh I'm out. I wish you had just not responded to me. I edited it for a reason. Now I'm just upset, and I'll inevitably regret writing this post BUT I'M WRITING IT ANYWAY let's all scrutinize it to our heart's content I bet I'm not being sincere because I phrased something imperfectly.

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It reads as insincere because "Mike Krahulik" is in the byline.

Holy shit call 911 we need the burn unit here, stat.

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Language IS important. He's a fucking artist, and it can be clearly seen in all of his posts (related to this or not) that he's a pretty shitty writer. Your argument is not convincing in the slightest. It screams of knowing that Mike has done shitty things in the past and then assuming everything he says in the present or future is insincere. That's not something I can ever agree with. He may still be a shitty person, but at some point you have to stop assuming the worst, or he'll never get better in anyone's eyes, including his own. Hence: bleh I'm out. I wish you had just not responded to me. I edited it for a reason. Now I'm just upset, and I'll inevitably regret writing this post BUT I'M WRITING IT ANYWAY let's all scrutinize it to our heart's content I bet I'm not being sincere because I phrased something imperfectly.

 

Okay look, I'll lay out my own thought process here.

 

He talks and talks about "mistakes" and "regret," which mean jack. I regret all sorts of good things and don't regret all sorts of bad things I've done. But "sorry" is not one of the nine hundred words he uses there. "Apologize" is, three times, but only in reference to how he's already apologized about stuff. Whatever your writing skills, it takes some work not to say "sorry" even once and not to use "apologize" without qualifiers in an apology about how you're sorry. On the other hand, he reaffirms two contentious points, that taking down the Dickwolves merch was a mistake and that he'll keep being "honest," whatever that means. There is zero admission of anything besides that Penny Arcade has caused some serious hurt over the past few years, which is great that Mike sees it now but certainly not what you look for in an apology from someone who's spent years needlessly antagonizing his critics.

 

Basically, what SecretAsianMan and Sententia said. It's "I'm sorry you are upset about it," not "I'm sorry I did it." That is reason enough for me to feel concern.

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Language IS important. He's a fucking artist, and it can be clearly seen in all of his posts (related to this or not) that he's a pretty shitty writer. Your argument is not convincing in the slightest. It screams of knowing that Mike has done shitty things in the past and then assuming everything he says in the present or future is insincere. That's not something I can ever agree with. He may still be a shitty person, but at some point you have to stop assuming the worst, or he'll never get better in anyone's eyes, including his own. Hence: bleh I'm out. I wish you had just not responded to me. I edited it for a reason. Now I'm just upset, and I'll inevitably regret writing this post BUT I'M WRITING IT ANYWAY let's all scrutinize it to our heart's content I bet I'm not being sincere because I phrased something imperfectly.

 

You're actually completely wrong in that judgement of me.  Before the first mention of it in this thread I basically didn't know anything about Mike.  I've seen the 4th panel episodes and the Strip Search season, but those just portray him and Jerry as a pretty funny pair.  I had no idea about Mike's ongoing fuck-ups, but after reviewing this situation I came to my conclusion.  History had no sway for me because I never came across it before.

 

Sorry if you edited it before I posted, on my screen I didn't see it until I had already made the second edit to my own post :P

 

edit: to be clear I'm not committing to an exhaustive assault on Mike's character it's just that he does thoughtless and hurtful things when provoked, which is a pretty common trait, but being common doesn't mean it's acceptable.  Especially for a guy who has so much influence on how others act.

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This is a wild aside twig but I've noticed that it's becoming a bit habitual for you to get involved with discussions and then when people start disagreeing too much (i.e. lay down an argument) you basically dismiss them and/or the whole thread.

Not saying you're a bad person or anything, but it's pretty bad form IMO — perhaps even insulting to those you've initiated a debate with, and likely to put people off bothering to have serious discussions with you in future (as has been the fate of other Thumbers).

Better off just silently exiting if that's really what you want to do. Nobody wants to hear something to the effect of 'I no longer deem you worthy of my time so I shall ignore your opinion(s)'.

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Okay, I read the jezebel article on how to write a rape joke and I want to try. Tell me if it's offensive, I'm new to this. Ok, here we go:

How many PAX attendees does it take to make a rape joke?

One to write the comic strip and kinda say he's sorry(?), ten to make the t-shirts, 1000 to insist that IT IS REALLY FUNNY! and 50 to threaten physical harm to anyone who disagrees on Twitter.

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Ok, I got another one:

Knock, knock.

-who's there?

"Rape-joke!"

-rape-joke who?

You were supposed to laugh.

Ba-dum-bump

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I got more, but as a white male telling rape-jokes, I'm starting to feel oppressed, so they are censored.

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This is a wild aside twig but I've noticed that it's becoming a bit habitual for you to get involved with discussions and then when people start disagreeing too much (i.e. lay down an argument) you basically dismiss them and/or the whole thread.

Not saying you're a bad person or anything, but it's pretty bad form IMO — perhaps even insulting to those you've initiated a debate with, and likely to put people off bothering to have serious discussions with you in future (as has been the fate of other Thumbers).

Better off just silently exiting if that's really what you want to do. Nobody wants to hear something to the effect of 'I no longer deem you worthy of my time so I shall ignore your opinion(s)'.

I did try to silently exit. Well, as silently as possible, because you can't delete a post. I edited my post literally like fifteen seconds after I posted it because I knew I wanted to back out of this shit. But I still got a response, anyway. That response actually did upset me, and still does, a little. It's very much from the perspective of someone who knows and understands the English language and has a grasp of how to very clearly communicate. Which is not the kind of person Mike is or has ever been or appeared to be or even CLAIMED to be. Though I love Jerry's writing style, I almost always skip over Mike's posts because they're so goddamn poorly written. I'm not even exaggerating. There were times in the past I would read his posts and roll my eyes at the abundance of errors and poor phrasing. Exceptions: when I see some sweet art. In other words, I don't at all agree that because he had imperfect phrasing, it somehow makes him insincere. So I explained why, and yes that follow-up post was a little heated. But I'm not being dismissive of anyone. I just completely and totally disagree. I don't think that fits your description of my habits very well. U:

 

And NONE of that means Mike actually was sincere or that he will actually change for the better or that, even if he does change, he won't fuck up in the future or whateverrrrrr. But I think it's important to not be so incredibly pedantic against a person whose job is to Draw Pictures, not Write Words.

 

All of that said, I do apologize if I came off like a butt. It was not my intention. I was frustrated. I'm sorry, dudes! I know it's one of my biggest flaws. I get frustrated and explode. If it's any consolation, I know I'm much better about it than I used to be.

 

AKA "I regret the harm we may have caused." :D (That's the royal we.)

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I swear I'm not watching this thread like a hawk, I just happened to get back from class two minutes ago :P

 

I don't think Mike is being insincere, my issue with the apology is not about sincerity and really neither is anyone else's here.  We're not saying his words are false, we're saying he's using the wrong words.  The overwhelming focus of the article is regretting having caused such an outcry, making people angry at him and PAX and PA, rather than what it should have been which is "sorry I caused this damage to people, I didn't realize it was harmful and now I do".  I don't consider it a poor article, it's a nice gesture to make, but it doesn't denote Mike as a now truly learned man.

 

I don't hold PAX or PA accountable for Mike's actions.  Anecdotal evidence seems to differ a fair amount as to whether PAX is a hospitable environment for women, but certainly PA has spent plenty of strips criticizing how games portray women, how women are treated poorly by gamers, etc.

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I swear I'm not watching this thread like a hawk, I just happened to get back from class two minutes ago :P

DUBIOUS!

 

I'm not at all saying his wording or just words in general couldn't have been more clear or more direct or MORE GOODER, but, for me, the fact that the post exists at all and is clearly trying to say something good is worth a million more points than the exact phrasing he used.

 

But, on the other hand, I can totally accept that the existence of the previous apology re: transphobic remarks could nullify any potential for Benefit of the Doubt for some people re: this post, considering that the whole PAX debacle happened between the two posts.

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I think what you said about Mike is true.  He's not a writer and it shows.  He doesn't pretend to be one.  And I certainly don't blame him for not having those skills (I sure don't).  That said, his apology, and I do consider it a genuine apology, still lacks the most basic word you would expect to see when someone apologizes: "sorry".  Heck, you said the word and I don't think anyone was actually all that upset with you.  Mike regrets what he did, but is he sorry?  I'm not 100% sure. 

 

Maybe I'm just arguing semantics, but I think a lot of people would feel better if he actually just came out and said it.

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Yeah, it definitely would be a lot easier if he'd just say that one word. No arguments here, heh.

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What's the difference between a squirrel on water-skis and a guy telling a rape-joke?

The squirrel on water-skis understands why it's a bad idea.

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My thing with Mike and his apologies is that they always apologize about people being offended rather than him doing any sort of wrong (intentionally or not). Like it seems to come from a place of, "Whoa people are mad at me" rather than "oh, I hurt people and didn't mean to." That's the only way I can really describe how I end up reading his words.

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My thing with Mike and his apologies is that they always apologize about people being offended rather than him doing any sort of wrong (intentionally or not). Like it seems to come from a place of, "Whoa people are mad at me" rather than "oh, I hurt people and didn't mean to." That's the only way I can really describe how I end up reading his words.

 

In my experience, having grown up with a few people who remind me of Mike, this is how people who are prone to tempers and outbursts (that is, most people who self-identify as "jerks" or "assholes") learn to apologize. They tend to cause so much of a fuss when they disagree with someone or do something wrong that simply apologizing for said fuss is enough, without addressing what caused it. It takes a lot of time and patience to learn how to engage the injured party in a way that is respectful, salutary, and definitive. I think that's probably a different battle that doesn't need to be fought here right now, though.

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