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Roderick

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I made a Twine game for this, but am a little embarrassed at how cloyingly emotional it seems, so I am afraid to submit it. A lot of the boob-related games I've seen mentioned sound like the they went for the more comedic route, and now I wish I had too.

 

I am working on my own (because men can also have and have a complicated relationship with their breasts) and I ran into this as well, especially because I don't want it to come across as "See, men have body image issues that are just as bad!". A lot of the rewriting I'm doing is about trying to inject humor and a lighter tone. But I think Twine games can be especially good tools for empathy, and Jenn Frank's posts about the jam seem to encourage honest and heartfelt work, so I wouldn't be too worried about not matching the goofier tone of other premises that have been thrown around.

 

Unless you just think the writing is of a poor quality in general. In that case, I'd just defer to your favorite author, Ernest Hemingway: "The first draft of anything is shit."

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Unless you just think the writing is of a poor quality in general. In that case, I'd just defer to your favorite author, Ernest Hemingway: "The first draft of anything is shit."

 

 

 

Are you trolling me Patrick, because congratulations, you've succeeded!

 

But your twine game sounds really interesting and I would like to play it. I think it's totally fair for men to seriously talk about their relationship with their bodies.

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Making a game about man boobs sounds hilarious. You better post a link when it's done.

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I made a Twine game for this, but am a little embarrassed at how cloyingly emotional it seems, so I am afraid to submit it. A lot of the boob-related games I've seen mentioned sound like the they went for the more comedic route, and now I wish I had too.

 

You're right, there are too damn many cloying and emotional games around. 

 

Nothing wrong with making something that's earnest. And anyway, if there are a lot of comedic games, better to make something different.

(because men can also have and have a complicated relationship with their breasts)

Man, I guess I have a touch more estrogen than most men or something, because I've always carried around a bit more boob than I'm comfortable with. Just enough to cause lovely body image issues when I was younger. It's actually more obvious now that I'm getting fitter than I used to be. Damn breasts, who needs them? Since I don't have a big boob fetish it's actually possible I end up with a woman with smaller boobs than me ;D

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 learned that using stereotypes as short hand doesn't save time 

 

This is great. I completely unironically love that this statement was uttered. It's wonderful.

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Yes, I wonder how women learn to identify with male characters. Hmmm.

Can't stop thinking of Argo's post every time I pass one of these posters:

Starring Matt Damon as the face attached to the front of a bald space marine's head

 

wZ0Pj3q.jpg

 

and Jodie Foster as a beautiful yet fiercely intelligent lens flare

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My copy of The Riot Grrrl Collection just came in the mail. It's a reprinting of the Riot Grrrl zines, including some of the original Bikini Kill zines. If you're at all interested in the history of riot grrrl, you should check it out: http://www.amazon.com/Riot-Grrrl-Collection-Lisa-Darms/dp/1558618228

 

Also, this book is another great look at the history of Riot Grrrl. Besides zines, it has a lot of interviews with the bands/women who were part of that movement: http://www.amazon.com/Girls-Front-Story-Grrrl-Revolution/dp/0061806366/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_y

 

(Obviously all of this is study material for Gone Home's launch next week).

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My copy of The Riot Grrrl Collection just came in the mail. It's a reprinting of the Riot Grrrl zines, including some of the original Bikini Kill zines. If you're at all interested in the history of riot grrrl, you should check it out: http://www.amazon.com/Riot-Grrrl-Collection-Lisa-Darms/dp/1558618228

 

This will make an amazing surprise gift for my partner. I will then attempt to borrow it when she is done with it. Thanks for the heads up!

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So, apparently on Pax, Gabe retracted his earlier remorse and diplomacy regarding Dickwolves. I don't know how to link Twitter messages but a lot of people exploded on this. At this point, Penny Arcade has turned into an incorrigable bastion of exclusionary, misogynist bullying, hailing from a bygone age and not just passively annoying, but actively harmful to gamer culture.

Penny Arcade has to stop.

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So, apparently on Pax, Gabe retracted his earlier remorse and diplomacy regarding Dickwolves. I don't know how to link Twitter messages but a lot of people exploded on this. At this point, Penny Arcade has turned into an incorrigable bastion of exclusionary, misogynist bullying, hailing from a bygone age and not just passively annoying, but actively harmful to gamer culture.

Penny Arcade has to stop.

 

Yeah, I don't even know what to say... Thus far, most people have thought that it's just Gabe's bullying problem, but now Khoo's backed him up on stage, which kind of puts the lie to him being the angel of Gabe and Tycho's better natures. If Penny Arcade wants to market itself only to insular and reactionary white male gamers, that's their prerogative, but that segment hasn't included me or anyone I know for a long, long time.

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For more context: During a Q&A panel, when asked if he had any regrets, Mike Krahulik said he regretted pulling the Dickwolves merchandise (and the crowd cheers): http://www.twitch.tv/pax/b/455394585?t=2h35m

 

The Dickwolves controversy is over two years old at this point. Bringing it up again, especially after a very recent public controversy that caused a well-known indie game developer to pull out of your convention, is poor form and childish. I'm tired of people acting like the threat of censorship gives them free rein to act like jerks, and I'm tired of seeing grown men smugly act this way in a forum where they know they will get support (seriously, the crowd cheering is the most upsetting part of that video).

 

I know people in the games industry are capable of change -- Idle Thumbs are a really great example of that -- but this Penny Arcade thing is just depressing and tiresome.

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For me, the worst part (besides the dude who shouts "bring them back" at the end) is hearing Khoo say that Penny Arcade's policy is now silence, in order to keep from engaging and therefore legitimizing any complaints about their business. If that were true, that'd be fine. I mean, not great, but fine. Whatever. The problem is that there really isn't silence. Every single one of these debacles has come from Gabe shooting his mouth off on Twitter. Every one. And God save the person who tells him to shut his trap. So their policy of silence isn't actually silence, instead it's a policy of spewing ignorant shit with alarming frequency for a grown-ass man, then hiding until the internet's goldfish memory forgets. And Gabe brings Dickwolves up again two years later at PAX. Silence, my ass.

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Uhmhm. Given the question "what things do you regret", I don't think that's a wildly unacceptable answer. Not that I agree with bringing it back up again after it's all been in the past for so long - in fact I think it's stupid, like if I held a grudge against someone who once bullied me twenty years ago when I was a small child boy, like I care - but to call it a "retraction" of earlier remorse and diplomacy is a bit of a stretch.

 

Also

seriously, the crowd cheering is the most upsetting part of that video

yes

 

yes

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It's not a stretch. The exit point earlier was that Gabe was genuinely sorry for what he had said and expressed an attempt to broader understand the problems of women and LBGT people. Saying this comes across as "I regret this happening, because if it hadn't, I wouldn't have had to make an apology and grow my understanding". That's not far from a complete switch on his earlier apology.

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Saying this comes across as "I regret this happening, because if it hadn't, I wouldn't have had to make an apology and grow my understanding". That's not far from a complete switch on his earlier apology.

I consider everything you said here a stretch. I don't think it indicates a desire to erase anything he learned from the incident. I think it indicates a desire to not feed the flame, causing the situation to barrel out of control. By not removing the shirts, it would've ultimately resulted in a lot less vitriol from BOTH sides, because it would've fallen off the radar so, so much faster, as the fools who so desperately wanted the shirt would've never had reason to get angry for the shirts being taken off the store, and well etc. I don't think not removing the shirts would've been the right choice, but from a certain perspective, it makes perfect sense.

 

He fails often at being "silent", yes, absolutely, 100%, definitely, but I don't think it's out of any lingering hatred or vindictiveness. I think it's because he sucks at being silent, sucks at listening without responding.

 

EDIT: Anyway, I'm defending him too much. Let's flip it around for a second. It was straight up dumb to bring it up at the panel like that. What a fool! "Doesn't hold a grudge" my ass, am I right?

 

:D

 

D:

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He probably (hopefully) didn't intend for his comment to be interpreted as a complete retraction, but that's definitely how it will be. Is that fair? Maybe not, but if he truly regrets how aggressive the Dickwolves issue became, why didn't he just say he regretted ever putting up Dickwolves merchandise in the first place? 

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Hah, that's a pretty good point. I suppose some part of him still believes in the sanctity of humor as a bastion for creative freedom, offensive as it can be, and he doesn't want to give that up. I can't say I completely disagree there, but also I can't say I completely agree (although there was a time when I would have).

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Selling those shirts goes beyond a simple "failure to understand" or even "artistic disagreement" about the power and role of comedy. Selling the merch is direct antagonization. To say that "stopping the sale of stuff we made to antagonize people who objected to our rape jokes" was a mistake goes beyond the pale. it's picking a side, and the side is "shut up and take our shit, women."

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The whole dickwolves thing somehow passed me by, now I've read up on it I think that any lingering respect I could possibly have had for that place is out the window. The fact they do a fair bit of charity doesn't make a difference.

http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Dickwolves

ahh so that is what the dick wolf thing is about, if merchandise/cartoons you made went on to created a group called "team rape" why would you regret taking the merchandise away, regretting that a joke was interpreted badly (not realising it would offend) and caused controversy should have been the regret, because it is quite easy to offend people with jokes, but once you know you did offend someone you should take it back, especially if your supporters create a group that harrases anti-rape activists, personally if i ever did anything that resulted in a pro-rape group forming, i would regret that forever

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ahh so that is what the dick wolf thing is about, if merchandise/cartoons you made went on to created a group called "team rape" why would you regret taking the merchandise away, regretting that a joke was interpreted badly (not realising it would offend) and caused controversy should have been the regret, because it is quite easy to offend people with jokes, but once you know you did offend someone you should take it back, especially if your supporters create a group that harrases anti-rape activists, personally if i ever did anything that resulted in a pro-rape group forming, i would regret that forever

Holy shit I agree with you on something.

Like seriously, the shirt is basically "Team Rape." What kind of a shitlord do you have to be to have more regret over fanning the flames of controversy than about doing something that's antagonistic towards rape survivors in the first place? And the fucking cheering. Good lord. I went to the first three PAXes, and the next few I couldn't go to, but I've never really regretted missing out and as time goes on I've been less sanguine about the prospects of going to one of those things even if I had the opportunity. "Gamer" culture is just a fucking poisonous pit of hate and bile and the last thing I want to do is make the trip to gaming Mecca. The Fullbright Company's decision not to go to PAX is precisely where I'm at now, and probably where I'm at forever. I don't think I'd feel comfortable in a convention full of people who'd cheer at someone who regrets the time he made even a tiny concession to doing the right thing.

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I think we need PETMAN to run a gamer conference so we don't have to be concerned about its perspective on issues of morality and ethics until it achieves sentience and murders us all.

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