James Posted September 21, 2011 There's also media depictions and social expectations and all that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vimes Posted September 21, 2011 I know that institutionalized sexism exists but my female friends manage to overrule it without grueling efforts - as past generation had to - and they never were barred from the education or job they were seeking because they were women. It was sometimes hard, but because what they were trying to reach was intrinsically difficult to obtain and keep : they are working in culture, in finance, in engineering, in animation, in biochemisty, programming or education. That's what I meant earlier : my personal experience goes against the general trend - which is good for my female friends, but not so good for my perception of the issue. Hence, I probably hold the misshaped conception that women don't need men to support them in any other way than just applying equity by default ... and a man labeling himself as feminist or writing a 5 part manifesto about it in 2011, isn't nearly as impactful, meaningful or useful as what it was 30 years ago. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sal Limones Posted September 25, 2011 Reviving this terrifying thread with a nice article about "sexually liberated" female characters in DC Comics and how they are Not Good: http://www.comicsalliance.com/2011/09/22/starfire-catwoman-sex-superheroine/#ixzz1YilVnrTr Good news, it's not very long and it has lots of pictures! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanJW Posted September 26, 2011 Good article. I hope someone at DC reads it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miffy495 Posted September 26, 2011 Yeah, RPS has been linking some good stuff the past couple of weeks. I read that one from their link yesterday. Is it the prospect of reviving the thread, or the stuff that's already here what is terrifying to you, Sal? Some of the things I've read here have depressed me plenty, but it has seemed like the pretty bog-standard "Things are fine, shut up" responses that people have before they get better informed, nothing particularly scary, just a bummer. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sal Limones Posted September 26, 2011 Is it the prospect of reviving the thread, or the stuff that's already here what is terrifying to you, Sal? After getting in a screaming argument in Serbia (not with Kingzjester, he is my fave) I decided to take a long vacation from arguments, especially internet ones. This thread makes me tense. There's a lot of good things in it and it is a good thing to talk about but goodness gracious. Anyway hey I have another link to share! It's about manly men. The Performance of Masculinity: http://www.charlieglickman.com/2011/05/the-performance-of-masculinty/ edit: What is RPS? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Erkki Posted September 26, 2011 What is RPS? Rock, Paper, Shotgun , only the best PC video games blog out there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Roderick Posted September 26, 2011 Glickman writes an interesting thing. It's funny because I am not in this 'box' as they say. I've been fortunate, in a way, to always have seen myself as an outsider and proud of it, so that I've never felt the need to conform to anything. This enables me to perceive my state of being as-is, instead of defining it in masculine or feminin terms. The way I've always seen it is that I am so secure in my gender and sexual orientation that I don't need to prove it in any way. My current working place is interesting to see in that regard, as it is sports the typical high-powered, masculine, sexist, macho culture that I generally find either tiresome or actively aggravating. I can easily see how people are pressured into 'the box' and even though I don't really need it, I regularly guard myself against being swept in with it. I experience, for example, a steady, daily stream of small remarks and ridicule for my behaviour if it isn't conforming enough to other's idea of masculinity. It's not bad, I can deal with it easily, but it would be nice if it wasn't there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
youmeyou Posted June 13, 2012 I don't know if this has been posted anywhere but it's an interesting project and the idea that some gaming forums are actively organize to frighten her off is revolting. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/566429325/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brkl Posted June 13, 2012 Because it's too damn depressing to mention. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Roderick Posted June 13, 2012 That gaming forums are up in arms is depressing, obviously. I support the video series, but I must say that objectively looking at it I'm not particularly interested in them. I doubt they'll have anything meaningful to say that I haven't heard or read before. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sal Limones Posted June 13, 2012 I support the video series, but I must say that objectively looking at it I'm not particularly interested in them. I doubt they'll have anything meaningful to say that I haven't heard or read before. Well everyone the topic's closed, Rodi's heard it all before. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Roderick Posted June 13, 2012 That's a teeny tiny bit knee-jerk, Sal. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ThunderPeel2001 Posted June 13, 2012 I don't know if this has been posted anywhere but it's an interesting project and the idea that some gaming forums are actively organize to frighten her off is revolting. http://www.kickstart...-in-video-games Not this thread again.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sal Limones Posted June 13, 2012 That's a teeny tiny bit knee-jerk, Sal. Yeah, probably. Sorry. I meant it as somewhat humorous, but your comment just seemed kind of dismissive and unhelpful/unnecessary. How do you know they won't tell you anything you haven't heard before? Furthermore, why should that matter, considering the fact that sexism is still overwhelmingly rampant in the gaming community and a lot of that stems from people just not being informed or having wrongheaded ideas? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ThunderPeel2001 Posted June 13, 2012 You know, Nachimir has already created a thread about sexism in the game industry... I wish I could find it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Roderick Posted June 13, 2012 I'm not dismissive of the project, I made a snap analysis based on what I saw in the Kickstarter about whether this will be interesting for me personally I am certain this will prove an entertaining video series that will also enlighten people 'new' to feminism in gaming. But I'm also making a reasonable guess that twelve videos about female stereotypes in games won't be able to tell me a lot of interesting new things. The direction it seems to go in is more 'entertainment' than 'super deep dissertation about female characterisation'. I could be wrong. I am, for the record, always, and way more, interested in the latter. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Patters Posted June 13, 2012 You know, Nachimir has already created a thread about sexism in the game industry... I wish I could find it. this: http://www.idlethumbs.net/forums/topic/7583-street-fighter-and-sexual-harrassment/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
castorp Posted June 13, 2012 I'm not dismissive of the project, I made a snap analysis based on what I saw in the Kickstarter about whether this will be interesting for me personally I am certain this will prove an entertaining video series that will also enlighten people 'new' to feminism in gaming. But I'm also making a reasonable guess that twelve videos about female stereotypes in games won't be able to tell me a lot of interesting new things. The direction it seems to go in is more 'entertainment' than 'super deep dissertation about female characterisation'. I could be wrong. I am, for the record, always, and way more, interested in the latter. I'd like to state that an entertaining and educational video series about the sexism against women in video games rather aimed at people new to feminism (or thinking about sexism) seems to me to be far more important than an academic dissection of female characterisations in said medium and hopefully not as pointless.Not that you directly said otherwise, I just wanted to say that for the record. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Orv Posted June 13, 2012 I'd like to state that an entertaining and educational video series about the sexism against women in video games rather aimed at people new to feminism (or thinking about sexism) seems to me to be far more important than an academic dissection of female characterisations in said medium and hopefully not as pointless. Not that you directly said otherwise, I just wanted to say that for the record. Stooooop thaaaaat. Thiiiis thiiiiing No I don't have anything meaningful to add, I had hoped this topic was dead. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sal Limones Posted June 14, 2012 Man, me too. Why are we even posting in it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miffy495 Posted June 14, 2012 I kind of like that this topic exists, at the very least because it means that people here are willing to discuss stuff without resorting to clamping their hands over their ears. Opinions were actually changed thanks to talk in this thread, which definitely reaffirms my faith in our little corner of the internet. At any rate, I gave $25 to the thing. I may or may not actually watch all of it, it kind of depends how the first few episodes are. The thing about something like this is: if you're willing to give money to it, it's probably not so that YOU can watch it. You're probably already on board with the cause. What it does give me, however, is the potential for a friendly and non-condescending arrow in my quiver when I need to say to a friend "Dude, you just said some stupid shit and here's why." I didn't give her money because I have any burning desire to watch her series, I gave her the money because I want her series to exist so that there's more exposure for this stuff out there. I love games, but when I don't feel comfortable playing almost any of them in the same room as my partner, there's a problem. This applies to pretty much any game, no matter how safe it may be at first glance. Hell, even Pokemon has that Lopunny thing that's a hyper-sexualized lady rabbit. I play games in private because of what MAY come up, even when I try to be aware of the big offenders (see: the latest Hitman trailer, to risk beating a dead horse) so much still slips under the radar that no game is really safe, and that's a fucking pitiful state for the industry to be in. Poking a few holes in the boy's club, or at the very least trying to? Yeah, I can throw her a few bucks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vimes Posted June 14, 2012 At any rate, I gave $25 to the thing.[...] because I want her series to exist so that there's more exposure for this stuff out there. I love games, but when I don't feel comfortable playing almost any of them in the same room as my partner, there's a problem. Exactly what I did and why I did it. I just hope it goes beyond a list of things and tries to identify trends and why they are being accepted at one point in time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeremywc Posted June 14, 2012 I'm not dismissive of the project, I made a snap analysis based on what I saw in the Kickstarter about whether this will be interesting for me personally I am certain this will prove an entertaining video series that will also enlighten people 'new' to feminism in gaming. But I'm also making a reasonable guess that twelve videos about female stereotypes in games won't be able to tell me a lot of interesting new things. The direction it seems to go in is more 'entertainment' than 'super deep dissertation about female characterisation'. I could be wrong. I am, for the record, always, and way more, interested in the latter. I think most level headed people would agree that sexism in the video gaming community is still a big issue, though. And as long as it is, it's not unreasonable to expect that a lot of people (especially women) are going to continue to want to add their voices to the issue. I've read studies that show that teenage boys no longer make up the largest demographic in the community, I'm not sure if it's accurate or not. What I do know is that they are especially vocal! The more counter arguments we get, the better, IMO. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites