Far Cry 3

[Roderick]

So in conclusion, FC3 is not a must-buy and I'm better off tracking a copy of FC2 instead?

[melmer]

I think we're being a bit harsh, i'm having fun with it. It has great pick up and play apeal

WHOS THE MAN...ME

[toblix]

Yeah, I've had tons of cool stuff happening. All my plans turn to shit because of tigers, usually.

[brkl]

If they had really ran with the systemic side of this game, it would have been great. Unfortunately, it's saddled with the poor story missions, a lot of gamey fetch-quest equivalents (drive this car down a path and get a bit of money) and collect everything nonsense. Cleaning out camps is fun, but every time you do it, the world becomes a little bit more dull, until it's totally free of conflict. Then there's the fast travel & minimap business, which does what it does in every game that has it, makes the world seem small and you don't really have a sense of place. I think FC2 is superior by far, but many people can't stand it, so it's hard to recommend.

[Joewintergreen]

I guess I just finished this game. That was kind of a weird ending (either one). Weird game. Fun though.

I don't really get the internet internet hating the player character, I found him pretty likable.

[racingfreak92]

I don't really get the internet internet hating the player character, I found him pretty likable.

what was likable about his? He is completely shallow, in 30 seconds he goes from "Ive never killed anyone!" to literally cheering after he shatters a bunch of dudes skulls. Every SINGLE interaction you have with your friends is like... wtf? I dont even know why I would continually seek out the extra interactions when you go back to the cave. You are borderline emotionally abusive to your girlfriend, and just a plain old shitty friend to everyone else.

They COULD have played the concept off well, combining the necessity to adapt to the islands violence, which leads you to become this brutal, semi-primal dude, with the desire of your friends for everything to return to normal. But the communication is completely one way, your friends will basically say "We care about you" and then you will storm off like a 5 year old in a hissy fit muttering some psychopathic shit to yourself about how "they dont understand".

My favorite scene is when you talk to Daisy (one of the optional interactions in the cave) when she is fixing the boat and Jason tells her that killing people feels good. Instead of a discussion forming there or Jason saying anything developed, he literally just says something like "killing feels like winning now, it feels good." Scene over. Are you fucking kidding me? Thats not even worth the loading time it takes to prep that "conversation".

And these are all problems I have with the concept, which doesn't even get into the fact that the deliverance of all of Jason's lines are awkward and his voice couldn't be more Californian-xtreme-sports-douche.

Jason Brody is by far the worst character, both in writing and voice acting, that I have seen in a big budget game.

[brkl]

That's probably the most interesting scene in the game. I don't know what problem you have with it. If they had gone further with that, they could have done something interesting with the story.

There's a lengthy interview with the writer on RPS: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/12/19/far-cry-3s-jeffrey-yohalem-on-racism-torture-and-satire/

It's a good interview, John Walker doesn't simply accept what the writer says. This guy wants the game to be many things it simply isn't.

[Argobot]

That interview makes me think that the creator of FC 3 doesn't really understand what satire/irony are.

[racingfreak92]

That's probably the most interesting scene in the game. I don't know what problem you have with it. If they had gone further with that, they could have done something interesting with the story.

Thats my problem with it. It was a opportunity to add anything of actual substance to the story. Why have a scene where the character is describing this fundamental change in his being if all that's going to happen is he is going to literally state the change, as if they were script notes not meant to be read, instead of having any interesting thought come out of it.

If I turned that in to an intro creative writing course I would get a F.

I will have to read this interview.

Gameplay wise I also dont like the decisions they made with the civilians. Whenever you are in a town (especially on the second island where the privateers control them) you see some scene where a native is being beat by one of the soldiers, obviously with the point of making you feel bad. But you cant have any interaction with the scene and if you stay there the interaction will just loop endlessly, making it a completely pointless scene to have ever created.

I dont know why other games dont do the Elder Scrolls style open-world interactions, where characters interact in a way real people might. I can think of dozens of examples in Skyrim and Oblivion where you will hear or see two characters talking, and then they leave and continue on their lives. Obviously most players see these and they work in that series so why not try it here? It is much more immersive and adds depth to the world. The way Far Cry 3 works it feels like you are just riding Its A Small World over and over.

I also dont see the point in having civillians walking/driving around outside the towns. If you shoot them all that happens is you get a warning/auto-killed but I have also never really seen the pirates and civilians interact. They act almost like the wildlife from Far Cry 2 (thats racist!), they just exist but not for any purpose or player interaction.

[gregbrown]

There's a lengthy interview with the writer on RPS: http://www.rockpaper...ure-and-satire/

It's a good interview, John Walker doesn't simply accept what the writer says. This guy wants the game to be many things it simply isn't.

Such a weird interview that it would be funny if the writer wasn't 100% serious. I grimaced every time the guy mentioned "curation" or described video games as "curated experiences". Ugh.

[Nachimir]

In that RPS interview, he reminds me of conversations I had with shit contemporary artists about a decade ago, because I thought that if their work needed a lengthy artists statement on the wall next to it in order to make sense, they'd failed at whatever it was they were trying to do. At the point where the FC3 guy condemns "modern art" as struggling for relevance, my eyebrow shot up so high it almost circled my head. His terminology being almost four decades out of date shows he hasn't engaged with the art world he's talking about.

John is bang on with this concluding statement:

As a work of satire, Far Cry 3 fails, simply because it required this interview to be apparent.

[DoomMunky]

I'm impressed you guys can make it through the 'story'. It's so godawful it hurts my brain.

[Lu]

You just don't get it. It's deep and a commentary on the state of something. Plebeian.

[Badfinger]

Spoilers up to the first act, not that it matters because this game is shit.

I know that we didnt expect the same awesome narrative as Far Cry 2... but holy shit. I dont think I have ever hated playing a game more.

I don't disagree with your overall criticism of the game's story, but at the same time I would place FC 3's narrative PRECISELY at the level of FC 2's narrative, which is to say the thing that drives you forward is really, really dumb and not particularly connected to the game you're actually playing.

[Murdoc]

I don't disagree with your overall criticism of the game's story, but at the same time I would place FC 3's narrative PRECISELY at the level of FC 2's narrative, which is to say the thing that drives you forward is really, really dumb and not particularly connected to the game you're actually playing.

I'd totally disagree with that, but that really depends on what you consider the narrative in FC 3. Yes the story is bad, but its the way it permeates through nearly every facet of the game play that makes it worse to me.

I played a character in FC 2, he had a name and a backstory, but for all intents and purposes the character I was playing was me. In FC 3 the narrative seeps even into breaking me out of that idea with having Jason comment on something every 2 seconds. So that's fine, I guess I don't need that and I have fun roleplaying in other games while following a character, but that was a pretty important aspect to FC 2 that sold the world and game to me.

***

Anyway, I have been having a tough time getting into the game, so I don't have many concrete thoughts on it just yet. Just wanted to comment on how the narrative isn't just the main storyline in a cut scene, because that's easy to ignore, it's how it creeps into other things that make it impossible to ignore.

[brkl]

I don't disagree with your overall criticism of the game's story, but at the same time I would place FC 3's narrative PRECISELY at the level of FC 2's narrative, which is to say the thing that drives you forward is really, really dumb and not particularly connected to the game you're actually playing.

FC2 never invites you to care about the conflict between the African warlords. All the cutscenes related to that are only a few sentences and it's clear those people are interchangeable. As for the Jackal stuff, I don't agree that it's dumb, but even if you don't like it, you won't have to bear it for long. The African warlords' bullshit conflict, the Jackal's explicit statement of the problem and what the moment-to-moment gameplay communicates all deal with the same themes. FC3 just wallows in its story, with really long missions and cutscenes that take you away from the core of the game.

[Joewintergreen]

what was likable about his? He is completely shallow, in 30 seconds he goes from "Ive never killed anyone!" to literally cheering after he shatters a bunch of dudes skulls. Every SINGLE interaction you have with your friends is like... wtf? I dont even know why I would continually seek out the extra interactions when you go back to the cave. You are borderline emotionally abusive to your girlfriend, and just a plain old shitty friend to everyone else.

They COULD have played the concept off well, combining the necessity to adapt to the islands violence, which leads you to become this brutal, semi-primal dude, with the desire of your friends for everything to return to normal. But the communication is completely one way, your friends will basically say "We care about you" and then you will storm off like a 5 year old in a hissy fit muttering some psychopathic shit to yourself about how "they dont understand".

My favorite scene is when you talk to Daisy (one of the optional interactions in the cave) when she is fixing the boat and Jason tells her that killing people feels good. Instead of a discussion forming there or Jason saying anything developed, he literally just says something like "killing feels like winning now, it feels good." Scene over. Are you fucking kidding me? Thats not even worth the loading time it takes to prep that "conversation".

And these are all problems I have with the concept, which doesn't even get into the fact that the deliverance of all of Jason's lines are awkward and his voice couldn't be more Californian-xtreme-sports-douche.

Jason Brody is by far the worst character, both in writing and voice acting, that I have seen in a big budget game.

I actually thought that conversation was one of the more interesting moments, and you skipped over the reason why. He doesn't just say "killing feels like winning" jump cut back to gameplay, he says the thing, and then there's a super uncomfortable silence and the girl is obviously a little freaked out, to which Jason's reaction felt to me like "oh wait, you can't actually say this weird psychopathic shit to people, my bad". He starts the conversation by getting her to relate her anecdote about winning at swimming or whatever because he's trying to explain his crazy state/relate to her, but it doesn't work because it turns out killing a dude is pretty different to being good at swimming. I think it's after that that he starts with the "they don't understaaaaaaaand" shit, which actually didn't strike me as petulant, because they totally don't, because they didn't just kill a bunch of guys.

Obviously as a whole the transition from Some Dude to crazy hunter murder dude is super fast (I guess, it depends how long the main story is supposed to take, it felt like a couple weeks to me?) but toward the beginning I didn't really find that

in 30 seconds he goes from "Ive never killed anyone!" to literally cheering after he shatters a bunch of dudes skulls

. It seemed to me like he was freaking out at every little thing for the first few hours, and didn't start his weird "fuck yeah i'm winning at murder" talk for quite a while after that. Acting like an asshole to his girlfriend didn't seem that weird to me under the circumstances. I have no idea how their relationship was beyond the implied "not so great" and now he's dealing with abductions and killing people and, presumably, going fuckin' insane.

As for the delivery, I thought it was mostly fine, and I guess I don't really know what a Californian-xtreme-sports-douche is. He just sounds like an American male to me. I may not have the cultural context to auto-hate the dude?

[brkl]

Plus the way he delivers that line about "winning", there was worry in his voice. Realization. That moment worked for me.

[racingfreak92]

Plus the way he delivers that line about "winning", there was worry in his voice. Realization. That moment worked for me.

Okay I see what you and Lacabra are saying. I still disagree though because while there was this hesitation and silence, as soon as he walks out of the cave its like that moment never happens. You go to your next mission and go right back to killing people like its whack-a-mole. Its kinda like what Chris talks about with the detachment that exists between most shooters game mechanics and their attempts at a interesting story. Yet with Far Cry 3 it goes a step further and the story is fighting with itself.

I dont think that one moment that could point to character development redeems the rest of the cut-scenes which to me, lack all substance.

[Joewintergreen]

I think it gets points for even acknowledging all the murder, though. The idea that having to kill a bunch of guys should even affect the main character is often just skipped right over in games.

Semi-related, I was watching my semibrother play Ass Revelations the other day. Ezio runs into a lady he knows on the street. She explains that she's waiting for a package she ordered to arrive but it's taking forever because the ship it's on is being held by customs or something. Charming Ezio is all "Leave it to me, I have ways of getting around these things". "Oh wonderful, bring it to my place later?" "Sweet." Ezio then sneaks aboard the ship, sneakily kills like seven guys (not really optional), and finds the package. It's the most absurd thing. After that, hearing Jason Brody acknowledge even a little bit that murder is a weird thing to do is pretty refreshing.

[Etnos]

Aside of whatever satire/comentary Jeffrey Yohalem was trying to achieve with FC3, What breaks the narrative for me is the sterotypical/cartoony characters all over.. The islanders look, talk, and behave like stereotypes of pacific islanders from a 50s movie, its just.. Common dude, if you about to writte about a "people" in a contemporary context, at least research a bit about them, that would ad believability to the characters... Hence a stronger dramatic/satirical effect.

Sory about any misspelling, posting from qn ipad here.

[brkl]

But surely Jason couldn't stop killing dudes at that point? He would have to abandon his friend and his brother.

[melmer]

I've taken to murdering the Rakyat now, i senselessly massacre every over living thing on the island so i don't see why the Rakyat get a free pass

"Hey, nice chin tattoo" BLAM! "Who's the man..." BLAM! "Can you help me fix my car" BLAM!

[Brannigan]

well they patched in the ability to turn off the indicators/popups

[melmer]

I just finished it. GOTY!

Ho he he he haa