BigJKO

The Nintendo Wii U is Great Thread

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SPEAKING OF GAMECUBE

 

I decided to take the plunge and buy Wind Waker HD, since I had some credit from the buying Mario digitally thanks to the Deluxe Digital Promotion. That's still a darn pretty game, but I sure do hate swinging on the lamps in the pirate ship! Has anyone else been playing this? I feel like I want to play it with the gamepad, since it'll give me convenient item access and gyroscopic control for aiming ranged weapons (I know lots of people complained about it, but I found that function indispensable in OoT3D), but moving around feels so weird now that I've played a billion hours of Mario using the Pro controller.

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It's the inevitable destination of all Nintendo threads, sooner or later.

It's the Dreamcast of Nintendo consoles.

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I never gave Wind Waker a fair shake back in the day, so I decided to dust off the ol' GameCube and pick up where I left off. Unfortunately my only controller had been sitting in the cabinet next to a window, and now all the buttons have melted or something and turned into sticky goo.

 

The Sun! Enemy of gamers in more ways than one.

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You know, this game isn't as good as I remember. I dunno' if it's just because of the terrible mood I'm in or what, but I think I might hate Wind Waker now. The contextual controls as finnicky as hell, stering Link is oddly cumbersome and it seems way too easy to steer him right off a ledge, the NPCs seem way more annoying than they do charming now, and there's a lot of just terrible video game shit frontloaded onto the first part of the game (tedious stealth sequence; three of the first items you get are bags for holding collectibles). I really hope it's just me.

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I had a short twitter conversation with Jake earlier, and I wanted to open it up to this forum, where I'm happy to have found a group of thoughtful people who take time to read and carefully respond to people's opinions rather than post gifs from TV and make inappropriate jokes. The conversation was fueled by Chris Kohler's piece on the WiiU and Mario fatigue, and it's worth a read. I generally think Chris Kohler is a fantastic and careful journalist, although there are many others who disagree! I'm actually of a few minds about his opinion. I own a WiiU and I really like it. I understand that the world's tastes in video games is quite different than my own, and that's fine, but I've been incredibly happy with my experiences playing the system. (I am in the tiny tiny minority of people who is excited about a video game because of it's local co-op options, especially when it allows people who don't normally play video games to join in.)

 

Anyway, I've been really happy playing Nintendo games, and even the Mario games, when they've come out, because they're still well made, and offer a range of challenges, and can be played on my own schedule. The current opinion I read and hear often, however, is that these Mario games are apparently not great, and I shouldn't like them. I shouldn't even own a WiiU, either, because it has no good games, and the gamepad is never used well. I understand that these are valid opinions about things, but I just don't share them. Nintendo has made a billion weird mistakes in their history, and I'm not going to defend these mistakes, since they're ludicrous. I'm just wondering: will Nintendo do anything? (I tend to believe that the answer is no, or, at least, "if anything, very slowly") If Nintendo fails, how much of the blame would be laid at their own feet versus the weird changing face of what people want? Will people look back on the WiiU the same way everyone (including the people here) is looking back at the Gamecube?

 

Yes, I am aware that being a Nintendo defender is not edgy, and is pretty boring, too, but grandiose articles about the Inevitable Failure of Nintendo are starting to feel the same way, to me.

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What I got out of that article when I read it earlier is "what can Nintendo do to not die and/or do they even need to worry about it?", and not much about quality of Mario games or whatever. Almost everything was in the context of sales and Nintendo's future-proofness (or lack thereof), rather than anything subjective. If Nintendo continues down this path of Not Making Money*, they WILL eventually die. On the other hand, if they can pull another Wii, they're probably fine. Ifs are everything, here.

 

*3DS notwithstanding

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Without reading or reacting to the article, I can say that I am definitely overwhelmed by the amount of Mario platformers lately.  It seems like Nintendo has transitioned from one Mario platformer every couple of years, either 2D or 3D, to now doing at least 1 a year of one or the other, sometimes one of each.  It's a little....much? I am definitely unable to keep up and it's hard for me to believe intellectually that quality isn't being diluted as a result (although I have no empirical evidence at hand to support this view.)

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I'd be quite okay with 3 Mario games per year between 3DS and Wii U. Alternate years for platformers, sidescrolling and 3D (Bros. vs Land/Galaxy). Alternate years for RPGs, Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi. Alternate platforms so that each year, one platform gets a platformer and the other gets and RPG. Third slot goes to one-off/once-per-gen franchises. Add in first-party reboots/sequels and this would be my dreamworld lineup:

 

2014: Paper Mario for Wii U, sidescrolling platformer for 3DS, SSB for Wii U, Golden Sun reboot on 3DS, F-Zero for Wii U

2015: Mario and Luigi for 3DS, Galaxy 3 for Wii U, Mario Kart 9 for 3DS, Star Fox for Wii U, Metroid sidescroller for 3DS

2016: Paper Mario for 3DS, sidescrolling platformer for Wii U, Mario Party for Wii U, Kirby for 3DS, Fire Emblem for Wii U

 

etc.

 

This holiday season seems to prove that all Nintendo needs is one killer app per platform to be considered relevant and get some mindshare (Link Between Worlds, 3D World). Throw in two more in the Spring to keep up momentum, and one in the fall to get things started again.

 

Man, my brain just went into Nintendo nirvana thinking about getting all that stuff. If Nintendo could deliver consistent quality with that kind of diversity, I'd be a Nintendo fanboy once again.

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I think Kohler is on the money with the notion that Nintendo will 1) continue to make hardware until they're dead, 2) survive no matter what and 3) get up on top again. I've said as much earlier in this or other topics. The 3DS alone will see to that. Nintendo still dominates the handheld space.

 

Having said that, I am MASSIVELY Mario fatigued. Mario has become a trivial thing, where it was once and should be special. This already started in the Gamecube era with one after the other sports title, Mario Party, Mario this, Mario that. The latest trend of platformers has only exacerbated that. I get the feeling that 3D World suffered directly because it looked too much like the 2.5D line, rather than its own thing, like a Galaxy. For all the brilliance that surely is in the game, 3D World doesn't instantly captures the amazement like Galaxy, or even Sunshine did right out of the gate. I'm not surprised it didn't sell very well. I mean, when was the last time a new Mario game was truly big news, something you looked out for and there was a palpable tension even in the mainstream press? I'd say the first Galaxy. Nowadays it's like the Wii U itself; it barely registers that it's a new thing.

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The Wii U shop channel has weird Christmasy music now and it's weird.

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Kohler's piece doesn't really have much to say about the quality of Nintendo's games, it's more or less about the stumbles Nintendo's had with the Wii U and it's pretty hard to argue against any of those points.

The thought of Nintendo putting out a 200 dollar version of the Wii U minus the tablet is an interesting one, and something that probably would actually pay off for Nintendo. Price point is still a massive driving force in these console wars. Nintendo would never do it though, and from a selfish standpoint, i'm glad they wouldn't. It would completely undermine the tablet as the primary distinguishing element of the Wii U, games couldn't be designed around an expectation that it was there.

Regarding Mario, it seems clear that Super Mario 3D World is struggling because the hardware it was released on is struggling. Super Mario 3D Land, for comparison, has sold 8.3 million copies so far. (Relative to system sales of around 35 million, while the Wii U has sold less than four million systems to date.)

Though I do agree that Nintendo has probably been leaning on Mario too hard in the last few years, and they do need to slow it down. A Nintendo that fatigues and devalues Mario is a Nintendo that is in incredible trouble.
 

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Oh, I forgot to comment on the tablet-less Wii U: I'd buy it for a low price! I think that would be a smart decision and one that I actually see Nintendo doing. They're not above revising their hardware if market realities force them to. It's a move way more logical, even, than the 2DS.

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It seems to me that the tablet is just so integrated into Nintendo's plans for that system, while the stereoscopy on the 3DS was something they excised with relatively little impact.

I suppose a cheap tablet-less Wii U could trojan horse that thing into homes, where people would then realize that they still really need to go out and buy that tablet peripheral too. That would actually be pretty much be in line with how Nintendo made bank on the Wii. So many dumb peripherals. (In the drawer where i keep my Wii stuff: Wii remotes, motionplus dongles, nunchuks, classic pads, and a classic pro pad.)

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Really? From what I've seen, the tablet is rarely used in any game (even first party) to any good effect. Only Zombii U did a marginally interesting thing. The vast majority of games won't do anything with it rising above the level of gimmick or as a repository for UI. No one would miss it if the tablet went. But isn't that the same with the Wii Remote? Another Nintendo innovation that nobody, including they themselves, knew what to do with.

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The Wii U tablet is literally vital for stuff in some games, even if it's just bonus levels. I just can't see it ever happening, and what of the games that need it? Is completionisting those games going to be impossible?

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If that's the case, it'll be a hard switch, but there are precedents. There've been games that required some peripheral or other to function properly on the Wii, whether it's a motion plus remote or the balance board. The Wii U case is different in that it's included in the base set, but I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo made that decision nonetheless.

 

Or, you know, just take the hit in income and lower the price without chipping away at the hardware.

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Just make them available in the Club Nintendo store. Buy 10 first-party 3DS games, get a free Wii U (Basic)!

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I feel like selling the Wii U without the tablet would just call attention to how massively underpowered it is. It's too integral to the Wii U's identity to drop.

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It seems to me that the tablet is just so integrated into Nintendo's plans for that system, while the stereoscopy on the 3DS was something they excised with relatively little impact.

 

Well, it certainly was key to Nintendo's plans for the system a year ago.  After a year of dismal sales numbers, plans have probably changed.  I'd be sad too - I'm still waiting for a kick-ass asymmetrical multiplayer game - but not surprised.

 

But isn't that the same with the Wii Remote?

 

Not remotely similar.  The Wii Remote is the primary interface for virtually every Wii and Wii U game released.  Even if it's innovations as a motion controller were never fully realized, it was frequently relied upon as an NES controller stand-in and a pointing device.  The Wii U Gamepad is used, after a year, primarily for its play-without-tv feature.

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I feel like price has sunken in terms of reasons not to buy a Wii U when pitted against current-generation consoles. Deprecating features to hammer the price down just seems like a desperate diversion, they should really work on getting third-party devs to really take advantage of the hardware rather than produce sub-par ports and reviving important franchises in notable ways that could get some hype built around the console. 

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Maybe I'm playing a different version of the WiiU, but I'm using the gamepad all the time. I played through Rayman Legends to completion, which utilized the gamepad well, throughout, and I enjoyed Game & Wario, and even Arkham City, which used the gamepad. I also use it when I'm watching something on Netflix and want to go to the kitchen and still continue watching some show. I'm also one of those crazy people who love the 3D on the 3DS. I keep reading so many people who disagree with me, and think that the gamepad wasted, and nonsensical, and I just don't see it in my own experience. Even in this thread, people are telling me what the world does with the gamepad, and I wonder how you all know that this is the case. 

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Maybe I'm playing a different version of the WiiU, but I'm using the gamepad all the time. I played through Rayman Legends to completion, which utilized the gamepad well, throughout, and I enjoyed Game & Wario, and even Arkham City, which used the gamepad. I also use it when I'm watching something on Netflix and want to go to the kitchen and still continue watching some show. I'm also one of those crazy people who love the 3D on the 3DS. I keep reading so many people who disagree with me, and think that the gamepad wasted, and nonsensical, and I just don't see it in my own experience. Even in this thread, people are telling me what the world does with the gamepad, and I wonder how you all know that this is the case. 

 

I was actually interested in buying Rayman Legends on PC or PS3 lately, but I have heard so many opinions saying that the Wii U gamepad is essential that I'm saving it for when I eventually buy that console.

 

So, you're not alone out here. I think it was Griffin McElroy (or maybe Chris Plante?) saying that about Legends on a recent episodes of the Besties podcast.

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So now that the Xbone and PS4 are upon the masses... I went out and bought a Wii U.  I grabbed the Wind Waker HD bundle and a copy of Mario 3D World.  I'm not very far in either but Mario is doing some clever stuff and Wind Waker does look really good.  I think the most mind blowing thing I've had happen so far though is the fact that I could go from the couch to the bathroom and back to the couch while continuously playing the entire time.

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So now that the Xbone and PS4 are upon the masses... I went out and bought a Wii U.  I grabbed the Wind Waker HD bundle and a copy of Mario 3D World.  I'm not very far in either but Mario is doing some clever stuff and Wind Waker does look really good.  I think the most mind blowing thing I've had happen so far though is the fact that I could go from the couch to the bathroom and back to the couch while continuously playing the entire time.

 

This entirely. I hadn't thought about the game pad AT ALL when I bought mine a couple weeks ago. But I'm surprised at how much I'm using it. If nintendo wants to up their sales:

 

FADE IN:

Screen capture of Mario 3D world..

PAN BACK to move out of screen of wii U tablet..

SLOWLY keep PANNING BACK as we move over someone's shoulder..

CONTINUE PANNING BACK and we see player is sitting on toilet with pants around ankles.

CUT TO:

"Nintendo" logo. Then "Wii-U. You can play it on the John."

FIN.

 

Nintendo's sales issues over / console war ended. :D

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