POLITICS!

[DanJW]

Well, germophobia can be a real problem, like OCD. I'm just surprised he even believes in germs, rather than disease spread by evil spirits and miasma.

[Roderick]

I dislike shaking hands for that as well. I guess what I'm saying is that I am actually Donald Trump.

[toblix]

[ThunderPeel2001]

Hurrah for Donald Trump! Excellent comedy fodder. Even better when he doesn't laugh.

[MrHoatzin]

Trick Questions

What is America anyway?

By RILEY WAGGAMAN on wonkette.com

Why did America’s young people “take it to the streets” on May 1st? Were they angry about all the illegal wars? Were they frustrated because undocumented immigrants pay more taxes than our largest corporations? Perhaps all the young, patriotic Americans protested in the streets because we have “less than five percent of the world’s population, but almost a quarter of the world’s prisoners”? Or because “the richest one percent of Americans now take home almost twenty-four percent of income,” just like in a Banana Republic? Don’t be silly! America’s young people emerged from their condos to celebrate Death. Too bad Leni Riefenstahl wasn’t there with her Flip Cam. Speaking of Nazis, do you know who else died on May First? Hitler! Unfortunately we weren’t able to shoot Adolf Hilter in the head and then dump him in in the ocean, for Justice — but most of the high-ranking Nazi monsters were still tried and convicted in a court of law. We probably would have killed every member of the Nazi High Command immediately without a proper trial, if they had committed the unconscionable act of murdering 3,000 people.

Actually, a lot of Nazi war criminals were recruited by our nation’s intelligence agencies, to help us build space rockets and torture communists. But that’s a different story, for a different time.

***********************

Let’s talk about those Dead Osama Photographs, and how Barack Obama doesn’t want to “spike the football,” because he’s very humble about sending war helicopters into a sovereign nation, shooting an unarmed human in the face and then dumping the dead body into the ocean.

Some Americans are opposed to releasing these photographs, since making these photos publicly available is what Sarah Palin wants, on Twitter, or something.

There’s actually only one good reason to release a photograph of Osama’s mutilated corpse, but it’s reason enough.

The people of Afghanistan need to see this photo. They need to see this photograph more than anyone — more than the families of 9/11 victims.

Every mother in Afghanistan should be able to sit down with her children, and point at that photo.

“Do you see this photograph, children? This is the mangled corpse of Osama bin Laden. The Americans invaded our country ten years ago because they said we were protecting him, that he was hiding here. They found Osama bin Laden in Pakistan. They shot him in the head. He was unarmed. The Americans are still unsatisfied, though. They want more. And that is why they are still occupying our country.”

Every mother in Afghanistan should be able to point at that gruesome photograph, and say to her child, “The Americans still want more.”

But we guess that is what’s commonly referred to as “inciting jihad” or “putting the troops in harm’s way.” Strange times we’re livin’ in.

Reminds us of something Kurt Vonnegut once wrote, about America’s insatiable appetite for revenge. He wrote, “The ‘Get Tough America’ policy, the spirit of revenge, the approbation of all destruction and killing, has earned us a name for obscene brutality.” That’s a quotation from a short piece called “Wailing Shall Be In The Streets.” It’s an essay about the Dresden firebombing, which turned 100,000 German civilians into charcoal. And that was during World War II — the good war, the war where it was clear that we were Good and they were Evil.

Is anyone prepared to argue that it’s still so clear today? Is anyone prepared to argue that The War On Terror is more noble than fighting a fascist regime that conquered entire continents, slaughtered 6,000,000 human beings and had tentative plans for world domination? If so, we would love to hear from you: [email protected]. Subject: “America #1.”

(Here’s just One Example: The United States is currently harboring Luis Posada Carriles, a terrorist and former CIA asset who blew up a Cuban airliner. What would happen if Cuba sent a few helicopters into U.S. airspace and “brought Carriles to justice”? We would probably carpet-bomb Cuba into the Stone Age. Then we would reoccupy Cuba. And then we would rebuild all the crooked casinos in Havana, for Freedom.)

And are we supposed to believe that 3,000 American lives are more important than the hundreds of thousands of innocents who have been killed or maimed as a result of our ongoing military adventures? And are we certain that 3,000 American lives are more valuable than the lives of the countless millions who now live in violent war zones, just so we could have the satisfaction of shooting an unarmed Muslim in the face? Because if that’s what the American people really believe, well, there’s a name for that sort of belief system.

And if you’re still butthurt by the idea of releasing these photos, fine. Here’s the alternative:

End the wars. All of them. Every American in Afghanistan needs to be shipped home. Today. Ditto in Iraq. Every American solider and sketchy mercenary must leave. Now. The robot-bombing of Pakistan, Yemen, and Libya must also end. Every CIA rape prison must be dismantled. Gitmo must be closed forever. Same with Bagram. We also need to stop murdering Gaddafi’s infant grandchildren, if there’s any left unmurdered.

If you disagree, what you’re essentially saying is that 3,000 American lives are still “unavenged,” even after we invaded two countries, continue to bomb a half-dozen more, and shot the mastermind behind the 9/11 attacks in the face. That’s excluding (of course) all of the Extraordinary Rendition and torture that our government condones, every single day. Oh noes — did we just criticize Barack Obama? We must be a Birther/Deather/Racist KKK James O’Keefe Breitbart YouTube Dance Remix!

If we don’t stop with all of the mind-boggling bullshit — if Endless War continues — photographs of Osama bin Laden’s gaping head wound should be released immediately, so that the world can fully appreciate just how bloodthirsty we’ve become.

It’s probably too late to save our crumbling fake Democracy, but maybe not. What’s to be done?

Communist hippie John Lennon

“There’s many ways of promoting peace. Do everything for peace. Piss for peace. Or smile for peace. Or go to school for peace. Or don’t go to school for peace. Whatever you do, just do it for peace.”

What is America, anyway?

[syntheticgerbil]

Communist hippie John Lennon

“There’s many ways of promoting peace. Do everything for peace. Piss for peace. Or smile for peace. Or go to school for peace. Or don’t go to school for peace. Whatever you do, just do it for peace.”

That's a sad and frustrating read but this part has me smiling.

[DanJW]

Still awaiting results of AV referendum, although it doesn't sound good.

On the plus side, my city (the first UK constituency with a Green Party MP) just became the first Green Party-led local council. Yay!

It's funny how you can kind of tell the character of each part of the city by its election results (generalizing of course).

[ThunderPeel2001]

AV seems to have ended badly. The "No" campaign was too strong and the "Yes" campaign too weak. The "Yes" folks should have released more leaflets to counter the lies in the "No" campaign's. Of course, it's easy to say that in hindsight. Bah.

[pabosher]

AV seems to have ended badly. The "No" campaign was too strong and the "Yes" campaign too weak. The "Yes" folks should have released more leaflets to counter the lies in the "No" campaign's. Of course, it's easy to say that in hindsight. Bah.

I was saying that during the campaign. So disappointed with how this vote has turned out.

Oh well, here's hoping that we'll win the next referendum in 30+ years!

[Gwardinen]

I was intending to vote Yes, but as it turns out, as a foreign national I not only can't take part in general elections, I also can't take part in referendums. So, sorry, if I was able to give it you would have had my support!

[subbes]

I'm residing overseas and forgot to check whether I could have absentee voted (I somehow doubt it). Go ahead and blame me if we lose by one vote.

[James]

AV seems to have ended badly. The "No" campaign was too strong and the "Yes" campaign too weak. The "Yes" folks should have released more leaflets to counter the lies in the "No" campaign's. Of course, it's easy to say that in hindsight. Bah.

I feel like I received roughly equal quantities of unconvincing bits of paper from either side. I got a letter from Richard Wilson, actor! As did everyone else, I'm sure.

[DanJW]

Fuck.

2/3s said no. That really is shitty.

This is one of those times, I imagine like the second Bush Jr term, when you think "do I belong in this country with these people who voted this way? Do I want to be in here with them?"

OK maybe not quite that bad. But almost. Because it means that soooo many people just bought into the whole propaganda of "This is bad because we say so".

But where else is there?

[ThunderPeel2001]

I feel like I received roughly equal quantities of unconvincing bits of paper from either side. I got a letter from Richard Wilson, actor! As did everyone else, I'm sure.

I didn't.

[Patters]

I feel like I received roughly equal quantities of unconvincing bits of paper from either side. I got a letter from Richard Wilson, actor! As did everyone else, I'm sure.

2 from No to AV, filled with lies, 0 from Yes to AV.

[vimes]

Trick Questions

What is America anyway?

By RILEY WAGGAMAN on wonkette.com

Apart from a few tangential exaggerations, this voices perfectly my feelings toward the whole thing.

[Nachimir]

2 from No to AV, filled with lies, 0 from Yes to AV.

This for me too. Because I donated to the yes campaign, I did get one phone call from someone who was evidently very young and naive.

The smugness of the no camp crowing "democracy has spoken" and "12 million people can't be wrong" is making me quite sick; their inability and unwillingness to debate or engage with the mechanics of voting systems is astounding.

The yes campaign was also really bad. There were some very clear and unequivocal arguments in favour of AV, but they chose to go for propagandistic claims and celebrities, just like the no lot. Except Yes to AV weren't anywhere near as good at it.

So, we are stuck on a dual party voting system with multiple parties and independents fragmenting it, possibly for the rest of our lives. Upside: With the Liberal Democrats utterly ruined at least there are now only two main parties. Joke.

[Roderick]

The tone of that article on America did more harm than good to me. It was Godwinning its way all the way to the point it was making, and came off sounding really smug and arrogant.

I agree somewhat, but certainly not with all of it. The comparison with the Nuremberg trials is off. It was a different war, a different age and a different scenario. There were so many goddamn things wrong with those trials in the first place (not in the least place the fact that Russia and America both should have been made to stand trial as well for their respective war crimes; Hiroshima anyone?), it's a weird thing to say. And say that someone orchestrates a campaign of terror for two decades that completely changes the world we live in for the worse, is it really that surprising that America'd want to take no chances with him? Does it really fucking matter that Bin Laden was unarmed?

I'm not trying to be the devil's advocate here. Was it politically and morally wrong what America did? Yes. Am I going to lose a minute's sleep over it? No. The points made about Guantanamo Bay, the extraordinary renditions and the pointless invasions of other countries are all true, and I will get mad about that. But shooting Bin Laden when they had the chance and dumping his body in the sea, well... it's tribal justice. That's not what we should be doing, by any means. But the word justice is in there, and there are way more pressing matters to get angry about. Please, please, please spend your moral indignation on something much worse than Bin Laden being dead.

Preferably, without sounding like a self-righteous douche.

[vimes]

I agree that killing Ben Laden is a minor issue in the clusterfuck of the war against terror and I can understand why they would want to kill Ben Laden for practicality sake.

But I'd argue that going for practicality and efficiency during that very symbolic event only served to prove the point of the terrorists; that lethal violence is the only justified and practical way to settle problems when there is no common ground with your enemy.

Would it be challenging and dangerous to trial Ben Laden ? Completely, but I feel like if we really wanted to disprove terrorism as an idea and present our society's choices as valid then we need to support and take the decisions which because they are moral are also harder to make and more difficult to sustain.

Also, doing the 'humane' thing of putting Ben Laden on trial, could also have been a very good starting point to analyzing if the way the international community reacted was humane and efficient.

That's what was missing after WWII and with Ben Laden's case closed, I'm afraid people are going to erase the knowledge that, in the process of neutralizing 5 leaders of a terrorist organisation, at least few dozens of thousands of innocent bystanders were killed.

[Patters]

The smugness of the no camp crowing "democracy has spoken" and "12 million people can't be wrong" is making me quite sick; their inability and unwillingness to debate or engage with the mechanics of voting systems is astounding.

80,600,000 can't be wrong.

I know this is a stupid argument but 12 million didn't vote no 8 did.

[OssK]

Also, do try to tell me X number of people can't be wrong and it'll be my pleasure to Godwin your moma as in "you know, hitler was elected democratically..."

[James]

I didn't.

2 from No to AV, filled with lies, 0 from Yes to AV.

To be clear, I meant the Richard Wilson letter, and I only meant it in the "I'm not trying to sound important, it was a stupid mass-produced thing" sense.

Not that anyone cares, of course, and it's way after the fact, but reading back over it it sounded ALL WRONG.

[False Dmytro]

I'm curious to what you Amerikans think of the GOP and Obama, as an outsider not well versed in the politics of your nation learning about your views would be valuable. I respect that you might not want to discuss politics here but for me it would be interesting to hear some opinions formed from the reality of life in USA.

I'll repost this here, we got slightly distracted by my curious mythologizing. I'm still curious about you Americans' opinions!

[ThunderPeel2001]

As a British person who's lived in the US and who has many American friends, I believe the only answer is this: Everyone has different opinions, just like they do everywhere else in the world.

[OssK]

Yep, but not. People do align behind different parties that aggregate ideas…

Everybody has different ideas yet a lot of people still clap when Perry says he's allowed the execution of 300 persons. All those people might not have the same favorite color but there are some large political trends that unite them :x