The great Valve re-play

[miffy495]

So after finishing Portal 2 and feeling awesome about all things Valve and single-player, I decided that a journey back through their library was due. I have now reinstalled Half Life Source, HL2, and both episodes and intend to replay the whole thing as completely as I can. As I said in the Portal 2 thread, the feeling when you start up a Valve game is pretty much unlike any other, and I wanted to experience it again real bad.

I got 6 chapters in to Half Life the first today, and have to say that in my memory, that took way longer than 2 hours. I remember being hunched over in Jr High school, terrified of every Vortigaunt around every corner and taking things unbelievably slowly. The meat locker in the "Office Complex" chapter alone stands out in my memory as an arduous experience. Looking around for vents to crawl through and peering around corners to see headcrabs before they could see me took me forever. According to Steam's play counter, getting up to the surface only took me 110 minutes today. (And that was after having to play through the first bit of "Unforseen Consequences" twice after I fell down an elevator shaft, had the game start over at the tram ride again, and thought to myself "Right. 1998. Manual saves. Stupid, Pete. Real stupid." Thank god for chapter select.) What the hell, memory? Either my brain has tricked me into thinking Half Life was a way longer game than it was, or I was fucking terrible at games when I was 13.

Also, remember what it's like to move around in a first person game in 1998? I feel like I'm skating the entire time. It took some getting used to, but I'm back into the swing now. That and the dodgy jumping puzzles really date the game, but that's about all that feels really anachronistic, even compared to a lot of games of today.

Anyway, I may keep replying to this thread with thoughts, but I honestly find that sort of thing to be kind of obnoxious. The main reason I'm starting this thread is to see if I can get a community thing going. I'm much more likely to actually see this through if I have others doing it with me, so who wants to have a nostalgic "A bunch of us are replaying these games together" type thread? Anyone else in?

[Twig]

I feel like the jumping puzzles (while never actually good) are much worse in the Source port. IIRC the physics are a little wonkier in general.

May just be my imagination, though.

[K-bohls!]

Coincidentally after finishing Portal 2 I also had the same urge. Luckily I had picked up the Half-Life complete pack during a sale and have been replaying through the Half-Life 2 story arc.

I previously played Half-Life 1 when I got it and played normally until that part with the stupid rocket chamber green claw thing at which point I turned on god mode and bound my "g" key to give revolver ammo. PC games.

So anyway, I have been playing through the Half-Life 2 games and it is just amazing how good they are. The only problems I encountered were after storming the Combine headquarters during the up-rising I could not find where to go and got incredibly frustrated for about half an hour as I walked around an empty battlefield. And episode one feels too much like an incredibly action packed bit of content and the puzzles in the game don't really standout as much as in Half-Life 2. But episode one was still a lot of fun, and that hospital level in particular was a high point due to the three way battle between the Combine, zombies, and me.

So during the rest of this week I will hopefully make it through episode two and maybe Blue Shift, because Barney is so incredibly cool, and report back.

[Sno]

Half Life Source

Please, please don't play this.

It's a very, very bad version of the original game. They broke a lot of things, and changed other things for the worse. I know rag dolls are awesome and everything, but you're doing HL a big disservice by playing the source port.

/me is a huge fan of that original game, still has his launch-day box from 1998.

The gearbox expansion packs are also really cool. Opposing Force, especially, really great game. Blue Shift is a bit meh. There was a third expansion pack they did too, Decay, a co-op campaign only in the PS2 version of the game. I've never played it, but i know some modders had ported it to the PC. Gearbox did make it, so if you really want the complete HL experience, that might be worth looking for.

None of the Gearbox add-ons really fit into the current HL2 canon though.

Shit though, Opposing Force is really great.

[Orv]

I despise Half-Life (the series entire) as both a story and a game, and even after playing it all through I still feel that way. Even still, I warmed slightly to a couple elements when I was playing on my own time. I wish you luck, and want to hear your opinions, no doubt there, but. . .yech. (Though I will admit The G-Man is an oddly interesting character.)

[Sno]

I despise Half-Life (the series entire) as both a story and a game, and even after playing it all through I still feel that way. Even still, I warmed slightly to a couple elements when I was playing on my own time. I wish you luck, and want to hear your opinions, no doubt there, but. . .yech. (Though I will admit The G-Man is an oddly interesting character.)

That's an unpopular opinion to hold, but i know a number of people who gave the series a legitimate chance and it just never really clicked with them.

I personally don't really see or understand what there is to hate, Xen aside, but i wouldn't hold it against anybody.

So let me ask, why? What doesn't work for you?

[Sully907]

I think you guys might be letting your love for Valve blind you to a fact that some of their older games aren't quite as good by today's standards. Hell, even vanilla HL2 has some very spotty AI and gunplay compared to modern shooters imo.

[Kolzig]

There was some high res texture pack for HL1 in the Steam forums, it was supposed to be an official, but optional thing. I've always wondered if it is for the original or for the lazy Source version. I have only the Source version.

I have currently everything installed from Valve except Blue Shift and TF2.

[Orv]

So let me ask, why? What doesn't work for you?

The simpler reasons are thus:

- The shooting is rather bland and none of the weapons (even the rocket launcher, for hells sake) have any sort of heft or feel to them. I'll point you to. . .I believe it was Escape From City 17, the fan-movie? The pistol in that was a fantastic replica of the HL2 pistol. Sound, look, everything. It's a pile of shit. It looks bad, it sounds crappy, it looks like he's holding a lego gun.

Update to point one (Time codes don't work in our YT codes, go to 3:15):

q1UPMEmCqZo#t=3m15s

- The story is not particularly interesting, except for the inclusion of the G-Mans involvement.

1. Corporate scientists play with the nature and laws of time and space.

2. Fuck up.

3. Aliens invade.

4. Random low-level scientist becomes savior of world.

Yes, that is condensing the plot, but it's not dumbing it down. . .

- City 17 felt good, that's one of the things I liked a little when I wasn't be shepherded through the game by a friend over my shoulder. The Breen-Citizen PAs, the feel of the combine troops being basically an Alien Gestapo. All done sufficiently, but it's not, say, Assassins Creed 2/BH. The city feels appropriately desolate, but perhaps a little too much. Another game that got the city right would be GTA4, for a further reference point. (Even if the story in that was also questionable.)

- The Combine themselves are. . .man. They suited troopers are interesting, from the KSH-EEEEEEEEEEEEEEE when they die to the way they talk and interact, all done well. When they're actually aliens? A resounding "meh" from me.

I could get more complex in my criticism of say, the story (I could dissect how horrible it is for some time, I imagine) but that really covers a cohesive idea of why it's not "THE STORYTELLING MONARCH/EXPERIENCE EXTRAORDINAIRE" for me.

I fully admit I expect far too much from video game stories, at this point in the life of video games, but that doesn't mean I have to enjoy the slop that they have.

[Sno]

I think you guys might be letting your love for Valve blind you to a fact that some of their older games aren't quite as good by today's standards. Hell, even vanilla HL2 has some very spotty AI and gunplay compared to modern shooters imo.

What? What are you responding to, specifically? I don't think anybody has said anything to warrant this response.

Of course an old game won't hold up to modern standards, that's ridiculous to expect. What stands is that for their time, both the original Half-Life and its sequel were revelations.

I grew up playing basically every FPS i could, i was watching very closely as this happened, Half-Life changed the way people made shooters. The repercussions of its design are still felt today, and in that ubiquity maybe it doesn't seem as special now, it was still an important and fresh take on how to design a single-player first-person shooter. (I make this same argument for Halo, but that's a different discussion.)

I could get more complex in my criticism of say, the story (I could dissect how horrible it is for some time, I imagine) but that really covers a cohesive idea of why it's not "THE STORYTELLING MONARCH/EXPERIENCE EXTRAORDINAIRE" for me.

I fully admit I expect far too much from video game stories, at this point in the life of video games, but that doesn't mean I have to enjoy the slop that they have.

I also want to respond to this specifically, you're exactly right. It has for a very long time been incredibly frustrating to me that people keep trying to sell the narrative in Half-Life for all the wrong reasons. The story is not good. It's not. Science happens, aliens invade, Gordon murders a giant fetus. Break to Half-Life 2, different aliens have already invaded, Gordon is Jesus.

What was so remarkable about Half-Life was the way it conveyed its narrative without ever breaking from the action for loading screens and cutscenes, it was a consistent and complete journey from beginning to end that never took you out of the protagonist's shoes for any reason. That was what was amazing.

And for the record, i also think the weapons in HL2 are really dull. I want snarks back.

[Orv]

I'm glad I'm not the only one that feels that way, but I distinctly remember loading screens for all 4 'games'.

Perhaps you've phrased that wrong?

[Sno]

I'm glad I'm not the only one that feels that way, but I distinctly remember loading screens for all 4 'games'.

Perhaps you've phrased that wrong?

Well, alright, there are loading breaks, yeah. They're relatively invisible though, you're not looking at a big fat progress bar. The game just pauses up for a few seconds while the levels transition into eachother seamlessly, stopping and starting in the same spot, instead of being big fat mission breaks.

Go play those games though, note that you are never taken out of Gordon's perspective for any reason ever. (The ways they try and force you to hold still and pay attention to important plot start feeling a little contrived and forced in the episodes though.)

[Twig]

Half-Life's core plot is pretty bland, G-man aside. Although Alyx picked up in Episode 2. Although her relationship with Gordon is still laughable. ANYWAY.

The presentation and world-building is fantastic. So fuck y'all!

P.S. Condescendingly putting quotation marks around the word "games" - as if to imply that Half-Life is not a game, not really - makes you look silly. ):

[Korax]

When playing the game today the loading breaks are momentary, sure, but I definitely remember loads taking quite a while when it first came out.

I play the Half-life games once every year or so. The series holds up pretty well. The only thing I've had issues with is some of the Xen areas in HL1. I've never really minded those parts, but something about running the game on a modern system makes some part of the platforming broken. The last time I played, I had to noclip my way around the final boss fight because one of the jump pads in the Nihilanth's chamber just wouldn't work and I couldn't get up to the higher points needed to kill him.

[Sno]

I play the Half-life games once every year or so. The series holds up pretty well. The only thing I've had issues with is some of the Xen areas in HL1. I've never really minded those parts, but something about running the game on a modern system makes some part of the platforming broken. The last time I played, I had to noclip my way around the final boss fight because one of the jump pads in the Nihilanth's chamber just wouldn't work and I couldn't get up to the higher points needed to kill him.

Are you playing the source port?

As i've said, it's a really busted and lazy version of the game, probably the most disappointed i've ever been with Valve. There's a lot of things broken and wrong with it.

Does the recoil on the alt for the gauss rifle still kill you instantly? Or did they at least fix that? I guess i haven't played the source version in years, maybe it's better than it used to be.

[Orv]

P.S. Condescendingly putting quotation marks around the word "games" - as if to imply that Half-Life is not a game, not really - makes you look silly. ):

Not what I was implying. Lost Coast and Episode 2 are. . .incredibly short, and Lost Coast is a tech demo to begin with.

I consider it to be 2 proper games, 2 mission packs (a la Doom/Quake) and the tech demo that is Coast.

So 'games'.

I'm really tempted to be angry, but I didn't bother to explain it, so heh.

Also, Sno, yeah that makes more sense, I agree with that sentiment.

[Sno]

Not what I was implying. Lost Coast and Episode 2 are. . .incredibly short, and Lost Coast is a tech demo to begin with.

I consider it to be 2 proper games, 2 mission packs (a la Doom/Quake) and the tech demo that is Coast.

So 'games'.

Pffft, what about the three HL1 add-ons?

And the two Portal games?

And that old stand-alone HL1 demo?

[Orv]

I'm not sure I've actually played the HL-1 packs, fucking Portal is not HL, even if it's now confirmed to be a greater universe, and what? Demo? Please.

[Sno]

I'm not sure I've actually played the HL-1 packs, fucking Portal is not HL, even if it's now confirmed to be a greater universe, and what? Demo? Please.

Heh heh, the demo was a unique level that repurposed cut-content from the main game, it actually had a bunch of unique things that aren't in Half-Life proper, and it was very cool. (So, actually, it was to HL1 exactly what Lost Coast is to 2.)

Half-Life Uplink, was what it's called.

[Twig]

I'm not sure I've actually played the HL-1 packs, fucking Portal is not HL, even if it's now confirmed to be a greater universe, and what? Demo? Please.

Portal has been part of the Half-Life universe from literally day one. But it's separate enough that it doesn't really matter. I only take the time to mention it because you seemed to think otherwise. U:

And you have a very negative outlook on this whole thing. That's understandable, since you have so much hatred for the series, but man.

Half-Life. Opposing Force. Blue Shift. Half-Life 2. Episode One. Episode Two. That's six games. Some are short, but they're still full games. Being an expansion pack, or an "episodic" title doesn't make them any less of a game. Unless you're of the (incorrect) mindset that anything shorter than 8 hours isn't a full game, of course. I spent more than six hours in every single one of those games, except Blue Shift, which is exceptionally short. And kind of bad, anyway. I mean... it's all right. I guess. But not really.

Decay is co-op only, and I haven't ever played it enough to finish it. Partner always quits on me. ):

Also, did you really compare Lost Coast to Episode Two? That is straight up baffling, yo. Especially since you were comparing their length, and Episode One is actually shorter than Two. And they're both uh... not as short as Lost Coast.

[Sno]

So you've played the fan port of Decay, i take it?

How is it?

Edit: You know, i was skimming over the thread -

- The Combine themselves are. . .man. They suited troopers are interesting, from the KSH-EEEEEEEEEEEEEEE when they die to the way they talk and interact, all done well. When they're actually aliens? A resounding "meh" from me.

This is... Wrong, actually.

The Combine soldiers are enslaved and augmented humans. All that transhumanist talk Breen keeps spouting on propaganda screens, it comes down to that being the ultimate plan the Combine has for mankind, posthuman soldiers in their army so they can presumably invade and conquer more worlds for resources, technology, and personnel. (The combat synths are generally implied to be or have been actual sentient creatures that they have previously already conquered.)

So like, that's some cool world building, it's all just implied instead of overtly forced down your throat. That world is very vague, it encourages you to prod and poke and speculate, it's a lot of very appealing environmental or otherwise unobstructive story-telling. That's what Valve is really good at, and i think that's why people react to it so strongly. (A lot of this holds true for their other games, Portal and L4D especially.)

I think a lot of fans misinterpret those things for there actually being a really strong narrative through line, which there really isn't. (Not in my opinion, at least.)

Edited April 26, 2011 by Sno

[Twig]

I've played the fan port of Decay, yeah, but like I said, I never finished it.

It's kind of neat. It works well, if all you want to do is play it, although my friend and I had a hell of a time trying to load levels out of order. I think you can load it up in Sven Co-op and have a much easier time of it, but that might break story moments. I think someone told me that once?

It's fun to run around in Half-Life 1 with a buddy and solve puzzles, but I think where I stopped last time, we just couldn't beat it 'cause it was too hard. Granted we only tried twice, but we didn't want to go all the way through the damn level again, which you have to do because you can't just quick save and load in multiplayer. Heh.

The best part was jumping around like an idiot hitting things with crowbars. And sequence breaking. "C'MERE! JUMP ON MY HEAD HERE!" Of course, that only breaks it for ONE person. the other gets left behind. Which means the one who went ahead gets stuck without the partner necessary to solve the puzzle. Yup!

That's Decay in a rambly nutshell.

I think a lot of fans misinterpret those things for there actually being a really strong narrative through line, which there really isn't. (Not in my opinion, at least.)

I actually think that's not necessarily true. MOST people I talk to recognize the fact that HL's strength doesn't lie in the core narrative. It's just that, to your average Joe, it all gets jumbled into one word: story. So, people say Half-Life 2 has a great story, but they don't necessarily care to specify what exactly makes it great.

That's sort of been my experience, anyway.

[Kolzig]

So you've played the fan port of Decay, i take it?

This is... Wrong, actually.

The Combine soldiers are enslaved and augmented humans. All that transhumanist talk Breen keeps spouting on propaganda screens, it comes down to that being the ultimate plan the Combine has for mankind, posthuman soldiers in their army so they can presumably invade and conquer more worlds for resources, technology, and personnel. (The combat synths are generally implied to be or have been actual sentient creatures that they have previously already conquered.

Yeah, there was even a schematic for this somewhere in HL2. Where they showed changing of a human being to a Combine soldier.

[Sno]

You also do find a couple Overwatch corpses without their helmets, and then there's the whole deal with the Stalkers.

So... Does it bother anybody else that HL2 has only the most tenuous connections to the original game?

The Combine are fairly explicitly established to not be the same collective of aliens that you were fighting in the first game, so like... The conclusion of that original game is really left hanging in the air. What the hell is Nihilanth? There's never been a concrete answer, and that kind of sucks.

I know the fans have a few theories about it, I know there's some vague hints in that first game and again in the sequel, but that's not a clear answer. It's also not like it is with the G-man, it's not an ongoing mystery. HL2 pretty cleanly began a new story in that universe and, outside of a line of dialogue or two from a Vortigaunt, HL2 never really even alluded to Nihilanth having been a crazy thing Half-Life totally did in a past game. Nobody going "Hey Gordon, remember when you murdered a giant testicle spider and shot a rocket into that giant fetus' brain hole?" I always wanted some freaking closure on that game, and HL2 never had it.

I mean, the most obvious answer is that at some point, they dramatically reworked their story bible for the sequel and they don't want to deal with whatever story discrepancies that introduced, but that doesn't give me a satisfying answer!

Christ, no wonder JJ Abrams and Valve are such mutual fans.

/end silly rant

[baconian]

Well, if you really want to know, read the combine overwiki. Basically,

the Nihilanth was like the 'central brain' type thing for the vortigaunts, it was seized by the combine to enslave the vortigaunts, and so when you killed it, you freed them. This made the combine mad, so they came for Earth... cue HL2

Mark Laidlaw has confirmed most of the stuff in the overwiki, but the great thing about the HL world is the little clues and vague poetic allusions in the vortigaunts' dialog pushing you towards this stuff. It's one of the things that makes Valve feel like they're not talking down to you.

I enjoy it this way. If you want a storyline stuffed down your throat, play, eh, more or less every other game.

Edited April 27, 2011 by baconian
overuse of the word basically