toblix

GTA V

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Kinda frustrated by the reflexive tut-tutting by the indie game community at the positive reviews of GTA V: as if the game couldn't possibly bring anything interesting to the table, or be distinguished in its craftsmanship. In a way, it's even more frustrating than the backlash against not-perfect scores, if only because I expect better out of them.

There are some serious issues with the way Rockstar treats women and violence in their games, but that doesn't obviate the positive aspects—or justify ignoring the game when pointing to how AAA games never do anything innovative. I can understand saying that the game isn't for you, since if you don't like previous GTA games you probably won't like this one. But the reactions I've seen go far beyond that, to the point where Leigh Alexander's insipid ~parody~ is championed, when it commits the same "turning it to 11 isn't satire" mistake that many criticize the game itself for!

 

 

Well said.

 

I'm reading a lot about the main characters being mean spirited, how there is little pretense of justifying their actions as revenge for a wrong or a man in the wrong place, etc... and I think that might make me like the game more.  The earlier games were never able to sustain that with the carnage you cause.  Red Dead did, and Bully, but the GTA games it was eventually impossible to ignore that your character is a complete sociopath, no matter how much Nico seemed to want to turn over a new leaf.  Maybe better to have them simply be villains after money.

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Games reviews based on misogyny rather than the actual game.

 

I'm glad I just enjoy games as a damned game and do not find amusement in tearing apart people for the their "effective commentary on society".

 

What boring drivel. I suppose physics is boring drivel to others even though I enjoy it immensely, but at least its useful boring drivel. Which allows me to feel superior for no apparent reason, which is also useless to everyone but me.

 

In other news, Gamestop shipped out pre-orders today instead of tomorrow, which I was worried about. Thus tomorrow is a "skip school" day. I just hope UPS delivers things earlier than usual, I know their facility is on the exact opposite end of town but c'mon, I don't want to wait until 4:00pm to actually get my "overnight delivery". Sometimes they show up quite a bit earlier, hope this is one of those times.

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Games reviews based on misogyny rather than the actual game.

 

I'm glad I just enjoy games as a damned game and do not find amusement in tearing apart people for the their "effective commentary on society".

 

What boring drivel. I suppose physics is boring drivel to others even though I enjoy it immensely, but at least its useful boring drivel. Which allows me to feel superior for no apparent reason, which is also useless to everyone but me.

 

In other news, Gamestop shipped out pre-orders today instead of tomorrow, which I was worried about. Thus tomorrow is a "skip school" day. I just hope UPS delivers things earlier than usual, I know their facility is on the exact opposite end of town but c'mon, I don't want to wait until 4:00pm to actually get my "overnight delivery". Sometimes they show up quite a bit earlier, hope this is one of those times.

 

 

Game reviews based on what's in the game, instead of...wait.

 

I can understand someone playing GTA and not caring about it's central story, but since these games are so heavily marketed as being about something (in this case, being about masculinity or about modern America) it's completely fair for reviewers to discuss the game's story and criticize anything they find lacking or ridiculous.

 

Finding amusement in something shouldn't mean that you have to ignore the bad or questionable parts.

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Game reviews based on what's in the game, instead of...wait.

 

I can understand someone playing GTA and not caring about it's central story, but since these games are so heavily marketed as being about something (in this case, being about masculinity or about modern America) it's completely fair for reviewers to discuss the game's story and criticize anything they find lacking or ridiculous.

 

Finding amusement in something shouldn't mean that you have to ignore the bad or questionable parts.

 

I'm mocking the suggestion that GTA V should get terrible review scores because it's not opinionated in a way that is different from me and sensitive enough. I'm sure making a game out of murdering random innocent civilians at will though really has a need to be terribly opinionated in a way that is different from me. I mean that was the problem with Hitler, not that he committed genocide, but that he didn't do it equally :o

 

Is my mockery better this time round? :P Or should I just spell out that playing GTA to see a thoughtful story reflecting on the state of society is like watching a Transformers movie and expecting it to be a daring romantic tragedy, and that any comments about it from the makers of such would reflect on their own comments in the manner of "How on earth did I get dragged into such a stupid argument and what does it have to do with anything I'm doing anyway?"

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i like Leigh Alexander, but what is the point of reviewing a game (even a mock review) if one hasn't played the game, it's the same as defending a game with a bad (meaning really good 9/10) review if one hasn't played it.

anyway, i have been mostly avoiding GTA5 news until it has a PC release date and then i will play it myself before judging it

I'm finding today that a lot of people are giving really in-depth arguments for or against this game despite having not played it. I think I'm going to go ahead and stay well out of this shit, though if anyone does play it and wants to share some actual experiences it'd be great.

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Or should I just spell out that playing GTA to see a thoughtful story reflecting on the state of society is like watching a Transformers movie and expecting it to be a daring romantic tragedy

 

I'm a go out on a limb and say that the Transformers movies were never marketed as "daring romantic tragedy" (whatever that means).

 

edit: and to point out the elephant in the room, if Saints Row (which is pretty much the transformers movie in this equation) can be generally be regarded as inclusive (in spite of its dildo bats and strippers)

 

for example: http://www.chewingpixels.com/saints-row-4-review/

 

Could this be the first big budget video game to star a transgender protagonist? It is if you want it to be.

 

it seems not such a hard ask to expect something more from GTA.

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I think it's perfectly reasonable to criticize games for unsavory content.  People who knocked Dragon's Crown for just being gross, as it turns out, were kind of right.  It's not that you shouldn't be able to have repulsive content in your games, but you have to earn it on some level.

 

Look at the movie Straw Dogs (the original)- this is a movie that manipulates the viewer into hating a woman for being raped. It's blatant audience manipulation, it's orchestrated to provoke feelings in people that hopefully they feel bad about. it's awful and it's masterful and it earns the right to be what it is.

 

To be a little more clear about where I'm going with this, I think it's perfectly reasonable to allow misogyny and "having an opinion" in a game affect your score IF the game doesn't earn the right to make those statements. You don't just get to say "it's offensive for offensiveness' sake" or "it's satire" and expect to be exempt from criticism up to and including reducing someone's opinion or rating of your game. If something makes you feel gross or uncomfortable or offended and you can't find any justification for why it even had to be that way, I'd say it's as valid a point for criticism as "the mission structure sucks." 

 

I'm getting real fucking sick of people writing off people's reviews like that Gamespot review saying "the misogyny has nothing to do with the game," because, fuck you, it obviously did to the person whose review you just read.

 

I'm getting really bummed out about a game I've never played because of everything on the internet today.

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I'm mocking the suggestion that GTA V should get terrible review scores because it's not opinionated in a way that is different from me and sensitive enough. I'm sure making a game out of murdering random innocent civilians at will though really has a need to be terribly opinionated in a way that is different from me. I mean that was the problem with Hitler, not that he committed genocide, but that he didn't do it equally :o

 

Is my mockery better this time round? :P Or should I just spell out that playing GTA to see a thoughtful story reflecting on the state of society is like watching a Transformers movie and expecting it to be a daring romantic tragedy, and that any comments about it from the makers of such would reflect on their own comments in the manner of "How on earth did I get dragged into such a stupid argument and what does it have to do with anything I'm doing anyway?"

 

No one is arguing that the game should get low marks for not being "opinionated in a way that is different from me". The game developer decided it was worth including a narrative in the game however, and if that narrative is lacking there's no reason from a purely critical perspective that it shouldn't get docked points if people think that narrative is bad. Rockstar has been very explicit that they want to tell complicated narratives. It would not be difficult at all for them to simply have some open sandbox for people to mess around in. Games like Minecraft have been incredibly successful without any narrative story to hang a hat on. No one is expecting Transformers to be a "daring romantic tragedy" (or whatever), but if a critic thinks it is a dumb movie, why shouldn't that critic give it low marks?

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So, this game looks pretty fun.

yeah, i think there is little doubt about that, the sandbox/missions parts are definitely gonna be fun, it's just the rest that has people criticizing it

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Game reviews as a thing are really weird; due to the nature of games, any critical work about them is, to a certain degree, doomed to caught in a no man's land between consumer reports style product reviews, Roger Ebert style movie reviews and new games journalism style dream dairies.

All of these lenses are valid but no one (or two) is adequate and everyone seems to hate one (or two).

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This is the most detailed model train set I've ever seen. I'm so impressed with the simulated patina.

 

I'm enjoying everything about it, the gunplay, the driving is tweaked in a way that makes flipping your car more likely (I like that) and I find the characters engaging.

 

About a conversation two characters have while driving a red car back to a mansion after getting it fixed up.

A conversation that makes fun of priviledge? Rockstar, that's more controversial than hot coffee. I love it.

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Jeez, it's impossible to even understand what people are arguing about with GTA cause it's got way too many levels and directions.  Backlash, Delight-in-Backlash, Meta-Backlash, Meta-Meta-Backlash.  Everyone angry about the game or what people are saying about the game or at least other people being angry about stuff.  I just saw a couple of retweets in my feed from Leigh Alexander about unemployed people spending their 'last 60 dollars on a fake world' etc, and was like, huh?  

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There's an awful lot of static out there, that's for sure. To address the least of those points, I'd simply say that even unemployed folks need entertainment of some sort. GTA5 is likely to pay out in fun per dollar than a lot of choices out there.

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I'm so glad that they included so much graffiti. The amount of variation encourages me to walk.

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Earlier today, Eurogamer posted video of the torture scene, and while I found the "racial profiling" pretty benign, the torture itself is kinda disturbing:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-09-16-is-the-most-disturbing-scene-in-gta5-justified

Honestly, any game that requires the player to torture in order to advance the storyline is really gross—even when it's arguably on par with the wonton killing. Something about deliberate suffering just trips different emotional wires. That said, the framing ever-so-slightly puts the game in a more favorable light, highlighting the limited effectiveness and general dumbassery of the characters involved.

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Impressions:

 

 My god the map is huge, I'd been fooled by the size of the blocks from that map, they're biiiig! You can just drive and drive and drive. Speaking of driving, while it's still clearly not a dedicated driving game, once you have the feeling it goes well enough.

 

Also, my god the lighting in this game is gorgeous. That's what really sells it, the lighting and atmospheric scattering (smoggy as shit) really make it feel like LA and give the game a great look. The textures are decent enough, the characters look decent enough, there's a lot of doing their best to avoid blockiness with low poly counts going on. Walking down the street and everything looks rather flat but fantastically lit. But look off into the distance and witness mountains and hills and skyscrapers and it doesn't matter as much.

 

Speaking of looks, I'd agree with notch, I'm actually more hesitant to go on murderous rampages now than I was in previous GTA's and GTA alikes. Not that the models for the npcs look super realistic, but that with the fantastic lighting they look close enough from far enough away at a quick glance that it gets a bit more disconcerting than it has been.

 

I've also been doing the story missions more. I like the characters more than I liked them in San Andreas or 4. There's still a ton of ripped off movie and TV moments. I just pulled down a hollywood, scuse me "vinewood" hill house with a winch and tow truck ala Lethal Weapon 2. Oh, and there's still strip clubs, and now the strippers are topless if you choose a "private dance". I'll leave the rest of that for you to discover, a quick look just to see what on earth was there out of curiousity was enough for me. As for other "side activities" I actually enjoy the towtruck job, which is literally just doing towtruck stuff so far, but Tennis was rather boring, definitely not up there with Mario tennis.

 

Also, the opening really, REALLY makes me want to play a next gen Red Dead game.

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While I currently live across the country, I've spent the majority of my life in Los Angeles, and have lived in Westwood, Culver City, and Koreatown over the last six years. As a result, it has been real weird to drive around Los Santos. It's like the uncanny valley of city simulation. There was a moment when I said to myself, "oh, hey, if this is Getty, then they should have that artsy fartsy garden over...oh, awesome!" as I walked over to the ledge and looked down. I won't spoil things, but if you've ever visited LA for an extended period of time, I hope you also feel this way about the game. Frenetic Pony, you are correct, the lighting is really perfect for LA. I didn't realize what it was about GTAIV that bored me, and it was the oppression of buildings looming above you all the time. What's great about LA is that it's so spread out, so you just get so much sky. Rockstar nailed it. 

 

It's too bad that the game is just still a GTA game, with it's similar GTA frustrations. It's pretty bizarre how Rockstar creates this gorgeous world and then gives you driving directions using a mini-map jammed in the corner that you stare at instead of, say, the road, or the world. I'm sure that'll change as I get to know the street layout, but it always fights against what I'm sure Rockstar wants to do in the early game. 

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Well after reading all of these comments about reviews and opinions, I watched the Quicklook and im going to buy it. Looks good, done deal.

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Can the map be turned off, and if so is it practical? One thing I always liked pre-GTA4 was that I was made to pay attention to landmarks and such, and I very quickly learnt the cities. I never really learnt GTA4's Liberty City despite 60+ hours in it because I was forever focused on the map. It'd be nice if there were something like Tomb Raider where you can press a button to see where your waypoints are.

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I love how the intro sequence with various shots of the beach and pier is a great demo of how the aging consoles struggle with asset streaming. Also, I've only played about an hour so far, but for most of that time it felt like my PS3 was about to catch on fire. This game is really going to shine on PC and next-gen consoles.

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