Dark Souls(Demon's Souls successor)

[Bjorn]

Congrats on finishing it! 

 

I had actually forgot how frustrating the Hollow can be the first time you are there.  In my first playthrough I found it relatively early and was stupid excited because of all the

crystal lizards

  So I didn't really mind that I had to go through it a bunch of times.

[Gormongous]

Congrats on finishing it! 

 

I had actually forgot how frustrating the Hollow can be the first time you are there.  In my first playthrough I found it relatively early and was stupid excited because of all the

crystal lizards

  So I didn't really mind that I had to go through it a bunch of times.

 

Yeah, I bought 99 prism stones, turned off camera auto-recovery, and took it really slow. The chunks and slabs to upgrade my gear were just too exciting for me to be frustrated. If it's the last place you visit, I imagine it all seems pretty stupid instead.

[Griddlelol]

Part of the reason I couldn't be bothered is the worst mechanic hiding it. Illusionary walls are just sad. I hate that they've put them in there. It's so against everything else in the game. Normally it's about having the balls to explore and rewarded by not dying, but illusionary walls reward you for hitting the roll button at random dead ends.

Also I had no interest in upgrading my gear. I had my weapon and shield max, I also had my armour at like +8 which is plenty!

Only complaint though!

I've also started watching the prepare to cry videos. Man I missed a lot of things. Also, the lore is pretty much incredible.

[Golden Calf]

So firstly. I didn't bother going to the ash lake last night. I spent a good 2 hours in the great hollow dying cheap deaths until I flipped the table and said fuck this place! I must have fallen 4 or 5 times. I got stuck in the level geometry twice (!) and punched to death. The game some times bugs out and won't let me lock on to enemies which led to more deaths until I closed and restarted the game. That place just sucked!

 

Ya I think the jumping stuff is the single worst part about the series. The controls and camera are in no way suited to the accuracy that some sections demand. It infuriates me that they doubled down on that stuff in DS2.

 

 

Part of the reason I couldn't be bothered is the worst mechanic hiding it. Illusionary walls are just sad. I hate that they've put them in there. It's so against everything else in the game. Normally it's about having the balls to explore and rewarded by not dying, but illusionary walls reward you for hitting the roll button at random dead ends.

 

And this I think is the second worst part about the series. Completely uninteresting gameplay.

 

Still like the games, but I find those two things to be completely indefensible.

[Sno]

I now have some spoilery questions about the end and NG+...

so I lit the bonfire because, you know... It's dark souls. You light bonfires when you see them. It's a compulsion. Am I now Gwyn? Did my character reinstate the previous order of things, only without the gods? The kindling is now aflame, as though it has been restored to its previous power.

I'd like to think that, but the NG+ image of me throwing myself the key to leave the dungeon makes me think otherwise. As though there's a cycle and somehow lighting the bonfire has sent me back in time in order to change what I did. As though it was the wrong choice.

 

 

I'm assuming you're just coincidentally wearing the elite knight's armor and forgot how the game started? The guy who tosses you the key is Oscar of Astora, who, while travelling to Lordran, seems to realize that he's at the brink of going hollow and is looking for another undead who might be able to fulfill the role of linking the fire.

Linking the fire isn't necessarily a "good" ending though, as it's only forestalling an inevitable fate for the world while also fairly explicitly leaving your character to suffer in agony as the centerpiece of the kiln, taking the "lord of cinder's" place.

 

It's also made more ambiguous because the gods of Anor Londo seem to have viewed humanity with mixed disdain and fear, their established order meant to control and rule over humanity because humanity carries within it the divided dark soul that will bring about the end to their age. Not that an age of darkness would be good for humanity either, since the growing power of the curse seems to go hand in hand with the fading age of fire.

Also, the illusory wall thing never bugged me that much because of the hint system in the game, people pretty reliably mark the location of all the secrets in the game, and there's something actually kind of fun about that. (Though it's taken a turn for the worse in DS2, jerks are seeding in so many false leads.)

[Griddlelol]

Ah, as I played offline, that really makes a difference. I had to look up all the walls which felt wrong.

 

Indeed! I had forgotten the start, and was wearing the same armour. So that makes a little more sense. 

I don't really feel like the endings were even related to morals. Neither seems inherently good or bad. Both just seem like what's important to the character and their motivations. Even if the snakes (who I'd like to know more about) were manipulating you into various things.

[Sno]

Additionally, you shouldn't have had to make any jumps to get to the bottom of the great hollow, there should be a clean path through there.

As for the primordial serpents, the game doesn't really say a whole lot about them. The age of darkness ending seems to imply that Frampt might be an outlier in trying to prolong the age of fire and that the majority of his kind are pushing for the age of darkness, but that's about as much as you can infer. For all the plot that is buried in the corners of that game, the serpents are something you really actually can't learn much of anything about. It's strongly implied that Darkstalker Kaathe manipulated the Four Kings into embracing darkness and causing the fall of New Londo, so that's one thing.

[Griddlelol]

Oh I know, but it still sucked! 

 

That just makes me want to know even more! Does it even tell you where they came from, or why they are called "primordial"?

[Dewar]

Ah, as I played offline, that really makes a difference. I had to look up all the walls which felt wrong.

 

Indeed! I had forgotten the start, and was wearing the same armour. So that makes a little more sense. 

I don't really feel like the endings were even related to morals. Neither seems inherently good or bad. Both just seem like what's important to the character and their motivations. Even if the snakes (who I'd like to know more about) were manipulating you into various things.

Your choices are basically to sacrifice yourself to keep things as they were, or to go forward and rule the future. Considering that you don't have any idea what the age of darkness actually entails, it's certainly not a good/bad choice. It's more a Japanese style tradition/future choice, which I really enjoy. Considering that humans were made from fragments of the dark soul, the age of darkness might just mean the final destruction of all of the gods and god related thing (like magic, bonfires, etc) and the rise of humans deciding their own fates.

[bkbroiler]

Maybe? There are parts of Anor Londo that definitely feel like you are breaking the game, like you are creatively moving beyond the designed and intended playable space, but are in fact doing exactly what you are meant to be doing.

Yes, that's exactly what I mean. Thank you.

[Winnipeg Fats]

What's it like going pure magic user in Dark Souls?  I played Demon's Souls most recently that way (started as the Royal, I know I know wussy easy mode) and it was both totally viable and a ton of fun.  The big difference from Demon's to Dark that I remember in that regard, though, was that in Dark Souls I don't recall ever seeing an item that would replenish uses on a spell.  How do you make the long treks sometimes required with limited spell ammunition?  In Demon's Souls I was carrying mana potion equivalent and had the ring that slowly regenerated mana, but if I was stuck using my sword to dispatch anything stronger than an unarmed hollow I was running for the stone.

[Bjorn]

You definitely have to manage your casts and save them for big enemies.  My one mage run in DS1, I tended to go through every area at least twice, once to explore, and then reset and take the shortest possible route to the boss to save on casts.  At least until mid-game when you have way more spells.  Late game there are also some incredibly powerful Intel boosted melee weapons that help. 

 

Also, in DS1, you actually get access to the Blacksmith who can magic enchant things immediately (he's a little hidden, but he's only a short run from the first real bonfire post tutorial), so you get access to magic enchanted weapons super fast, which helps. 

[Winnipeg Fats]

Which smith is that?  The guy in the cage down that first elevator? (I've lost every single name involved in that description.  I'm sorry.)

[Bjorn]

Yep, that's him.  He can turn a +5 normal weapon into a Magic Weapon.  So it just takes 9 regular shards and a green shard to have the magic weapon of your choice.

[Winnipeg Fats]

Well I think I have my next DS run then.

 

That is both excellent and terrible news.  Some day I hope to play a game that's not from the Souls series.

[Griddlelol]

I'm still deciding on whether I should attempt a soul level one run of DS or play RE4. I love hearing people talk who have played so much DS1 that they know all the ins and outs of it, but I feel like RE4 is in the same headspace as DS1 was before I started again.

That is, I want to like it, I've tried to get into it, but it can never get over the initial hump. It's been in my back log for years and I think I've got GameCube and ps2 RE4 lying around but I want to play on the PC.

Still, a soul level one run of DS would make me feel pretty good about playing that game. Not sure how I'd go about it though, and is certainly wouldn't feel bad using a guide. Maybe RE4 then DS again...

[Winnipeg Fats]

The SL1 run concept puts the fear in me so bad.  There are still 3-4 areas in that game that I rely on my level to allow me to brute force my way through.

 

That RE4 port on Steam has been staring me down for a while now.  If it's good, please share your findings.  I love that game and I think I've played every version of it so far, save that one. Yes, even the iPad version.

[Griddlelol]

I like the idea of something drastically hard that you have to perfect rolling and parrying for. Seems like a way to say "yup, I've mastered this game"

I definitely will. I just have to get over the hurdle of the first few encounters. I find it really creepy and I usually panic and lose all my ammo within the first few seconds, shout "fuck this" and quit the game for another 2 years until a re-release makes me interested again.

[Sno]

I love RE4 so much, probably one of my favorite games, though I ended up having a weird relationship with Resident Evil because of it. I didn't really like the series before RE4, but it convinced me to try out a few other RE games. I ultimately sort of ended up back where i started though, thinking that most of the RE games are kind of terrible and realizing that RE4 is just a really amazing, singular standout. (Though i did think the 3DS's RE:Revelations was actually pretty great.)
 

Unless you just find the control scheme completely revulsive, it's absolutely worth sticking with that game. Don't forget that you have a quick turn, use it constantly so you can abuse the sprint when putting distance between yourself and an enemy. Also don't forget that you have access to hilarious context-sensitive instant-kills when near a stunned opponent. (Either a headshot or a legshot will do it.)

[Griddlelol]

It's not the control scheme that I hate, it's just I really get an overwhelming sense of dread when I play. It's working as intended, but makes me not want to play. I did make it to a boss once and failed the QTE. I don't even remember what happened after because I turned off my ps2 and never looked at it again.

I just know it's the kind of game I will like, I might have to have a really light hearted tv show on in the back ground to help me get over my fear. So pathetic!

I tried revelations on the 3ds, but I don't think it fits the handheld format. It's awful for short bursts, it's really something you need to sit down and play for hours at a time.

[Sno]

Well, I understand the updated version of Rev for PC and home consoles is pretty alright.

I'd recommend RE4 ahead of Rev though.

[Bjorn]

I loved V as a co-op game to play with my daughter.  But I only played it solo to see some of the areas in full screen (since we were playing split).  Can't say what the experience is like alone. 

[Sno]

RE5 is dreadful as a solo game, you're just constantly fighting with the crappy partner AI.

[Bjorn]

RE5 is dreadful as a solo game, you're just constantly fighting with the crappy partner AI.

 

Right, I actually read your earlier post about Rev and in my head interpreted that as REV(5), not revelations.  I've never played Revelations.

 

My comment might seem less out of the blue now.

[Griddlelol]

I totally played 5 as a coop game with my ex. It was really, really fun. Nothing amazing about the game, but it was great to play with someone. Minot really interested in the others, I've given practically every RE game a chance and not really liked them. 4 is the only one I want to like and keep coming back to.

I'm also just very keen on playing more Japanese games. My library and games I've completed is very western. A few scattered JRPGs here and there that I never finished, but not many of the great games. After dark souls I've realised that maybe I just need them to click for me, and it'll open a who area of games I've generally ignored because I find them incredibly user unfriendly. RE4 and Dark Souls seem like the perfect ones to try to do that with - they are both massively popular and inspire some serious fandom.