Sully907

Dark Souls(Demon's Souls successor)

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Translated patch notes!

Personally, i think the most important change is that they're fixing the dropped-inputs bug, which has been a massive pain in the ass for me. Another big one is adjusting the cracked red eye orbs to only be consumed if the invasion actually goes through. (Which is a good change, but it's kind of side-stepping the connection issues.) Also a whole host of PVP-focused balance changes. A lot of of duping exploits are being plugged too.

Boss drops are being adjusted to include humanities, tweaks to souls earned, and include extra homeward bones. (An item that lets you warp to the last Bonfire you used.) Also seems like the souls earned from bosses aren't divided up amongst the host and summoned phantoms anymore, all players will get the full reward in co-op. Merchants are being modified to carry more items of more types, generally alleviating some of the back-tracking for basic supplies.

I don't like some of these changes though, being able to buy Twinkling Titanite is a fairly major cop-out. Some of the other things though, like getting homeward bones from bosses, will really only affect people who are still learning the game. (If you're playing wisely, you would already have several homeward bones on you at all times.)

You'll also be able to buy a master key from one of the merchants now, which... sure, fine... whatever. People shouldn't keep being punished 140 hours into their playthrough while on NG++ for a choice they made in hour one.

Lot of changes, mostly good.

Seems like there's still a lot of issues unresolved though, but at least they're doing something.

I also started an NG+ playthrough, it was extremely satisfying stomping through the first four areas of the game in about two hours, dying only once. (The first NG+ apparently makes all of the enemies 40% stronger, but it's not enough to make those early-game hollows trouble my Knight. Though it's also certainly a lot of muscle memory now, since many of those enemies can still kill you in two or three hits.)

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So, I finished this. I'll be sending my rental copy back tomorrow.

I don't really know how I feel about it. I was unsure about the whole concept going in, and I've had highs and lows and still don't really know what my relationship is to this game. The only thing I can say for sure is that it's pretty unique, and even the fact that I've thought about it so much and that it pushed me to spend all this time finishing it has got to be lauded. We're always crying about a lack of interesting, unique experiences, and whatever else Dark Souls is, it is that.

I also just sort of hate finishing things in general, I always feel a bit hollow (no pun intended) and at a loose end afterwards.

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What aspects of the game weren't really working for you? What was it that drove you to finish it?

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Got a bit frustrated with my 80 hour character last night and started afresh for the third time and am up to blight town again. Have refined my build down to socery + dex weapons. There are heaps of NG+ players around now, has made my first few attempts at invasions a bit shit. I won't be done with this game any time soon, and I'm really tempted to go back to Demon's afterwards.

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What aspects of the game weren't really working for you? What was it that drove you to finish it?

Those are complicated questions, actually. I've spoken at length with a friend about the game and still not really come to any decent conclusions.

The things that bothered me were a combination of technical issues and userunfriendliness. Also, partly because it's a Japanese company and partly because they're just genuinely somewhat inscrutable, it's often difficult to tell which choices From Software made because they genuinely wanted things that way and which were oversights/bugs.

Case in point; it is impossible to tell without the use of wikis how many of any given upgrade material you are going to get throughout your playthrough, and the drop rates are pretty measly. Most types also aren't purchasable anywhere. Is this deliberate? Is it a mistake? An oversight? Bad design? Good design for their sort of game? I'm hardly sure at this point. The fact that Twinkling Titanite is becoming purchasable in the patch (which still hasn't hit for anywhere but Japan) and that drop rates are being increased across the board, does suggest it was at least not completely thought through, though.

Additionally, there is a character in the game that will actually murder another, quite important, character - this will lose you their functionalityl. No warning is given. To try to fix this mistake, you have to do something not entirely obvious at a fairly late point in the game. Is this cool? Kinda, yeah. It's certainly interesting, and in terms of interesting narrative by way of gameplay, it's neat. On the other hand, it is sort of bizarre and obtuse and much like most things in the game, doesn't give you any help whatsoever to figure out what you're meant to do about it.

The combat and stats systems are mostly really great! However, they include the resistance stat. It's almost 100% pointless, and putting points into it is a horrible waste. How the hell do you get such a smooth and enjoyable fighting system and not notice something as basic as "one of the main stats is useless"? Bizarre.

The weapons aren't even vaguely balanced. There are a few weapons early in the game that you're effectively gimping yourself if you don't find at least one of. Then later on, you need a divine weapon for a certain area or two. Other than that there's no reason not to find a weapon you like (from within the given list of actually effective weapons) and make it as high a rank of Lightning as you can. Lightning weapons are nuts overpowered, as they generally do the most damage total, almost nothing has strong lightning resist and they don't even bother with scaling so you can just pump points into Vitality, Endurance and whatever else you want without worrying about your damage.

PvP isn't even vaguely balanced either. Not only are there a number of different ridiculously cheesy items/weapons/spells, the way the multiplayer system works means that someone can go to a later area, pick up aforementioned cheesemonger device, then go back to as early an area as their soul level will possibly allow (soul level being a VERY rough judge of character strength, which barely actually tracks with effectiveness) and invade with it. Furthermore, since the invader knows they're going to be in PvP and the host doesn't, all of their gear and spells will be set up for it. Totally bugged items such as the magic shield that shoots out projectiles with the damage of your right hand weapon don't help matters. Things like the fact that they can show up anywhere in the level and that mobs don't attack them I have more ambivalent feelings about... those are interesting, but they do contribute even more to the feeling many hosts get that they just don't want to progress anymore when there's an invader in their world.

Co-op. I have gone back and forth on this so many times in my head. I don't know whether I think it should be easier to play with people you know. I genuinely don't. As it turns out, the game is very enjoyable played that way. But there is a certain atmosphere that can be lost. I'm just not sure.

Framerate issues. Basically anywhere with water has terrible framerate issues, it's pretty weird considering that there are several areas like that. Blighttown is damn near unplayable in spots, particularly if you have phantoms in your world.

Graphics. They're kinda crap! The aesthetics and art design are great, and it really makes me that much more sad that the actual rendering is done in such an outdated way. It almost looks like a launch game for this generation, which is bad, but considering these people were working as PS3 exclusive developers until recently and I'm playing on a PS3 (supposedly more graphically adept) it's just weird. I get awed by the view down Anor Londo, and then I see certain armour sets or monsters up close and just cringe.

Progress paths. I didn't have much of this problem myself as I made liberal use of friends and wikis to figure out where I should be going, but for fairly significant stretches of the game there's no real indicator for which areas might be doable and which probably aren't. Again, there's a certain charm in that, but for the most part it just creates confusion and wastes time. Of particular note is that of the three ways out of Firelink at the beginning of the game, only one of them is realistically usable for a new character. No indication is given as to which one this is, and due to Dark Souls' reputation of difficulty, the fact that the others are hard can be misinterpreted.

Certain simple and unwarned against mistakes can be absolutely crippling. Curse is the biggest offender here, it is a major problem for low level players particularly, and yet it's encountered quite early (in the Depths, for example) with more or less no information on how to cure it. Honourable mention; sins. It's pretty easy to accidentally sin against a covenant and be charged a VAST amount of souls to have the sin forgiven. If you don't, you can never join that covenant and one of the other covenants will send people after you, leading to more unbalanced PvP invasions!

There's more that I don't like, more that I'm ambivalent about and more that I thought I wouldn't like but ended up finding quite interesting or enjoyable, but I've definitely rambled on for long enough here. I've mentioned several things that are already being changed in patches, which is mostly interesting insofar as before the patch was announced, fans were often saying that these were just examples of how From Software does things. Or that they added to the ambience, or the feel of the game. As I mentioned, it seems like even the hardest core of Demon's Souls fans don't really know what the people at From are thinking regarding any given feature/design decision. This makes me wonder how much of what I enjoyed of the game was somewhat of a fluke or through situations of my own making, and how many of the things that are obtuse but potentially defensible are actually just mistakes, oversights or just more curious decisions from another Japanese developer.

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Those are complicated questions, actually. I've spoken at length with...

I wanted to respond with my own thoughts, but the board is telling me the post is too long, so i've had to cut back on some of the text. Heh.

The things that bothered me were a combination of technical issues and userunfriendliness...

It really is hard to say, but i can say that From Software games have kind of always been like this. I remain convinced that a large part of why their more recent mech games have failed to find an audience in the west is squarely on people being largely oblivious to what those games are trying to do and how they work. Why that same kind of inscrutable design has found such acceptance with Demon's Souls and Dark Souls is very curious.

Case in point; it is impossible to tell without the use of wikis how many of any given...

I think this is an odd complaint, are any RPG's really in the habit of broadcasting ahead of time how many supplies you will have available to you?

Anyways, the twinkling titanite change is the big one, it's a very rare resource that you can easily lock yourself out of obtaining if you don't understand that there's some behind the scenes nonsense with the crystal lizards. (Essentially, attack too many, they stop respawning. It's a silly hold-over from Demon's Souls.) There is a huge disparity between how rare it is and how many things need it for upgrades, and it's probably a change that needed to happen. Personally, i never felt that any of the other resources were especially difficult to obtain, though.

Additionally, there is a character in the game that will actually murder another, quite...

There are actually several different events in which an NPC will murder another NPC, and other avoidable events that can lead to losing critical NPC's. It's kind of ruthless in that regard, everything except the main quest path can be ruined. The game lets you fuck up, and at times even tricks you into fucking up, and it makes you live with those results. I screwed up long event chains and lost important NPC's in my first playthrough. It was frustrating, i was angry and had no recourse, and i appreciate it on that level. It was a unique experience that i wouldn't have had almost anywhere else. I think it also really emphasizes the need to play the game through NG+, which is something the game is certainly seems balanced for and built around.

The combat and stats systems are mostly really great! However, they include the resistance...

I don't think it's quite that simple, it gives you fire resistance and poison resistance and also double the standard defensive gains other stats would give you. Once your gains-per-level start dropping off in the 70's and 80's, it seems like having taken more resistance earlier in the game might put you ahead of the curve in later progression. If i'm correct in that, it's more for long-term build planning. If i'm wrong in that, then it's kind of useless, but whatever.

The weapons aren't even vaguely balanced. There are a few weapons early in the game that...

I kind of feel like the Drake Sword is From throwing people a bone, giving struggling players a hand. It's so easy to get that they must have known that people would get their hands on it. It really doesn't even upset the balance in any long-term sense, that weapon becomes pretty useless later in the game, even upgraded.

As for divine weapons, you don't actually need divine weapons for the catacombs section at all. (Skeletons can't revive from falls, and there are a ton of ledges to kick them from. The necromancers in the area also don't respawn, and once they're cleared out, skeletons won't revive anymore.) I have played through the catacombs twice now without a divine weapon, and while it's more difficult, it's not unmanageable.

Also, the normal progression path and all stat bonuses are being buffed in the patch. The elemental weapons won't be as powerful anymore, relatively speaking. (Which seems to acknowledge that as a legitimate problem, which it is.)

PvP isn't even vaguely balanced either. Not only are there a number of different...

I honestly haven't had any really terrible experiences with PVP, i'm playing a pretty straight forward Knight, not exploiting any of the things people have been complaining about, and have won maybe 2/3rds of the invasions that have happened to me. Still, a great many PVP-focused balanced changes are coming with the patch, and a lot of issues are being addressed. (Many items are being nerfed, such as the Ring of Fog which will now only reduce lock-on range and not prevent it entirely. Pyromancy is also being heavily nerfed, sorcery is being nerfed, specific miracles are being nerfed. Magic just in general clearly isn't working as intended.)

It's almost certain that the game was balanced primarily for solo, and that PVP probably wasn't given the consideration it needed. The upcoming patch is going to be changing a goddamned lot of things, it's going to be a pretty radically different game.

Co-op. I have gone back and forth on this so many times in my head. I don't know whether...

I like the structure they have here, i've had several totally delightful experiences working through areas with anonymous people, using the system of gestures to direct eachother. (In fact, i had one encounter where the person sent me a polite thank you in very broken english afterwards, and without that emphasis on non-verbal communication, i don't know if i would have had that experience.)

More directly responding to your comments, summon signs should at least appear to everybody within the appropriate level range. That's apparently how it worked in Demon's Souls with that game's dedicated server structure, and people who really wanted to co-op with their friends dealt with it. How it is in Dark Souls, with its troubled peer-to-peer networking structure, your summon signs will only appear to a small random selection of other players in the vicinity. (As player population dies down, it seems like it will probably become easier to match up with the intended people.)

Framerate issues. Basically anywhere with water has terrible framerate issues, it's...

Definitely major issues here, especially up in the rickety narrow paths, especially if you're in the unlucky position of being surrounded on the rickety narrow paths. Combined with the tricks they're pulling to limit your vision in that whole region, it can be terrifically unpleasant.

Graphics. They're kinda crap! The aesthetics and art design are great, and it really...

I certainly don't agree with this at all. The game isn't pushing any top-shelf visuals, but i do think it is a really gorgeous game.

Progress paths. I didn't have much of this problem myself as I made liberal use of...

I have heard this story several times now, and it is absolutely disheartening hearing about how many people go into that graveyard and just beat their head against those stupid skeletons and never get the hint about that being the wrong way to go. I don't think the game should be blamed for that, i think it's a fairly dire indication of a much wider issue about how brain dead many games have become. People aren't even trying to step back to evaluate their situation intelligently, they're just throwing themselves at the most obvious path and hoping that something will give.

Certain simple and unwarned against mistakes can be absolutely crippling. Curse is the...

You're not wrong, but things like that are kind of what makes the game so appealing to the people who love it.

There's more that I don't like, more that I'm ambivalent about and more that I thought I...

It's the nature of playing a game made by a developer from Japan. From Software actually seems to interact with their fans pretty regularly, just... their japanese fans. When they released notes for the upcoming Dark Souls changes, it took nearly a week for western fans to translate it. Ideally, From should be having a direct dialogue with their english fans as well, but they aren't, and it's not a problem distinct to them.

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Rather than trying to address your addressing of each of my notes so far, I'll just give a general response to all but two. I get the feeling I may need a little more distance from the game before my opinions really crystallise anyway.

You mentioned quite a lot of the things I was concerned about will be fixed in the patch, and actually I noted some of that too. Unfortunately, while those are probably all steps forward, they're not relevant the game I played. I'm not trying to be anti-patch here, patching is a good thing and I'm not one of those people who demands that version 1.0 be the be all and end all, but from a purely personal point of view, the patch makes no difference to my experience. It's been more than long enough for a large section of the players of this game to have finished it now, and the patch still isn't out anywhere but Japan, so I also don't feel like it's particularly wrong to ignore it to an extent from a wider perspective either.

You also had a different personal perspective on several of my points, and in fact it seems like some of the things that might have irritated me or others actually caused you to enjoy the game more. This is something that has come up a number of times as I've been discussing the game with others, and I really can't say much about it other than that it's sort of interesting that a game can provoke such a spectrum of responses.

As to the graphical thing, really? Maybe I have unrealistic expectations at this point, or maybe playing the Witcher 2 so recently has screwed up my sense of it but there were several occasions in which I thought "man, the art is great but it's really being held back by the graphics here".

Here are the two points I will address directly:

Firstly, the upgrade supplies thing. No, you're quite right in noting that RPGs are definitely not in the habit of telling you beforehand how much you're going to get. However, Dark Souls differs from most current RPGs in a few fundamental ways that make this more of an issues. The first is sort of obvious; Dark Souls is harder than most AAA RPGs in current times, so it's just genuinely more important that you get this stuff right. Even more crucially though, Dark Souls doesn't really scale equipment with progress through the game. This is actually one of the things I quite like about the game, as it means that although there is some neat shit in later areas, you can pick up a good weapon type in the first few areas and upgrade that as much as possible and it'll be a genuinely effective tool all the way through the game. In many RPGs the halberd I found in the second area would have been replaced by a purple halberd right before the end boss, or something (as it was I actually finished the game with that halberd from outside the church in Undead Parish, albeit heavily upgraded). My final issue with this choice feeds into a more general one with the game; Dark Souls almost seems designed with a meta layer - much of the payoff from the game is in terms of comparison to the community and knowledge that you've succeeded in this notoriously difficult game, and there are so many parts of it that directly reward you for having an understanding of the metagame. Not to mention it's almost required to go to a wiki for some information (such as how summoning, invading etc. work - those are only some of the features not fully explained in game, nor Covenants, nor sins, etc.). See earlier comments regarding character deaths.

Secondly, the progress paths thing. Yeah, you could say it's a shame people don't grasp that the path is clearly too hard and just try something else. However, the marketing for this game, the community for this game and all the meta layer of information for this game are all constantly saying "Dark Souls is hard". The tagline for the game is "you will die" so you can hardly condemn people too much for playing it, running into something difficult and just considering it to be difficult rather than the wrong path.

I definitely don't want to give the impression I didn't enjoy the game, I finished it and I'm glad I did. It was also very interesting to see the various areas and doing some of them with a friend was genuinely exciting. I just also feel like it's a very complex game from a review judgement standpoint, and how murky it is any time you try to figure out what's a design choice, what's a bug and what's From Software just being weird and Japanese doesn't help.

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You mentioned quite a lot of the things I was concerned about will be fixed in the patch, and actually I noted some of that too. Unfortunately, while those are probably all steps forward, they're not relevant the game I played. I'm not trying to be anti-patch here, patching is a good thing and I'm not one of those people who demands that version 1.0 be the be all and end all, but from a purely personal point of view, the patch makes no difference to my experience. It's been more than long enough for a large section of the players of this game to have finished it now, and the patch still isn't out anywhere but Japan, so I also don't feel like it's particularly wrong to ignore it to an extent from a wider perspective either.

You're absolutely right, of course. If anything, that the patch is addressing many of the issues you encountered in your time with the game, it could be taken as validation regarding those points.

As to the graphical thing, really? Maybe I have unrealistic expectations at this point, or maybe playing the Witcher 2 so recently has screwed up my sense of it but there were several occasions in which I thought "man, the art is great but it's really being held back by the graphics here".

I love how grimy and wet the sewers appear, how impenetrable the darkness is in the tombs, and i love that you can look at the horizon and see places you've been and places you're going to. I think the bosses all look really incredible, and that the environments have an impressive sense of scale. I also think art direction is more important than the underpinning technology, and there's no argument against this game having really amazing art, right?

It's clearly not the best looking game on the market, but i don't feel that it's being held back in any especially significant way, framerate woes aside. There's no blurry textures or crudely detailed models that really stand out to me as detracting from the game. (Certain armor sets do have some very odd visual quirks, granted. The wrists on my knight's steel armor twist in a very odd way.)

I am also endlessly amused by their hilarious implementation of havok physics.

My final issue with this choice feeds into a more general one with the game; Dark Souls almost seems designed with a meta layer - much of the payoff from the game is in terms of comparison to the community and knowledge that you've succeeded in this notoriously difficult game, and there are so many parts of it that directly reward you for having an understanding of the metagame. Not to mention it's almost required to go to a wiki for some information (such as how summoning, invading etc. work - those are only some of the features not fully explained in game, nor Covenants, nor sins, etc.). See earlier comments regarding character deaths.

This is something i've been going back and forth on, i'm not sure how i feel about it. I generally am in support of tutorials in games, not just surfacing what mechanics are there, but how you should be using them. Dark Souls does literally nothing on its own to make itself approachable. What it does have, and is quite interesting in this regard, is a built in crowd-sourced hint system. That can be used to suggest strategies, reveal hidden items, warn of strong enemies. It's very cool and very interesting, but there are very obvious limits to what it can do.

I mean, I don't feel that the game necessarily needs to allow for itself to detail such minutia as upgrade paths, but it should at least do a better job of explaining how the online systems work and other such fundamental basics. The built-in hint system is kind of covering the middle ground, the fan wikis are holding the high end, which is fine, but it also then kind of comes down to the fan wikis to explain the very basics too. Which is a problem.

On the other hand, that's kind of what this game is, it's inscrutable and idiosyncratic. People are enjoying discovering things about the game. It has people talking and sharing stories and explaining things to each other, there's a culture bubble around this game that is fascinating. So then the question might be if From was counting on that happening, and also if it is right to excuse gaps in the game itself because people are doing the work and filling in the blanks for each other.

So yeah.

Shrug.

Edited by Sno

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So I've been playing this for about 2 weeks now and I'm really enjoying it.

I started with a knight because of the high starting armour and stats and I think it really helped me get to grips with the mechanics in the game (I never played Demon Souls). I managed to ring the first bell, that boss fight probably took me about 20 attempts :( and hearing other players ringing that bell whilst I was trying to do it myself just made me want to succeed even more. Was the greatest feeling of accomplishment I think I've had in any other game in recent times.

Also I've spent just under 20 hours in the game already and I've just entered

the Depths

. I think I'm probably way behind for the amount of hours I've played :S but I don't mind, I'm enjoying every moment of it :D

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I managed to ring the first bell, that boss fight probably took me about 20 attempts :( and hearing other players ringing that bell whilst I was trying to do it myself just made me want to succeed even more. Was the greatest feeling of accomplishment I think I've had in any other game in recent times.

Were you doing it while Hollow on your own? If so I can understand the feeling of accomplishment, but if you'd reversed the hollowing and been in human form before going into the fight you could have summoned Solaire to help you, and probably another player as well if you were online. The gargoyles fight is almost designed to be done with 2-3 people.

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Were you doing it while Hollow on your own? If so I can understand the feeling of accomplishment, but if you'd reversed the hollowing and been in human form before going into the fight you could have summoned Solaire to help you, and probably another player as well if you were online. The gargoyles fight is almost designed to be done with 2-3 people.

Yup, did it all on my own whilst hollowed :(. I actually attempted what you suggested. Turned into human form at bonfire by the blacksmith after 10 or so tries, headed into the church, took out all enemies on the first floor, proceeded to get invaded by a thief with lightning daggers who tore me a new one and never got the chance to place the summon stone where I wanted.

That experience actually made me nervous to ever go into human form again as i lost my humanity and 4k of souls. I've now been in human form since going to the new area though and have been invaded once (not by the same guy thankfully :P), whom I successfully dispatched :) I think that was down to me having upgraded my longsword to be magic longsword +1 :D

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I haven't played any of these games and never will (because I suck) but I just wanted to mention that being hollowed sounds like a horrible and awesome thing.

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I haven't played any of these games and never will (because I suck) but I just wanted to mention that being hollowed sounds like a horrible and awesome thing.

Saying it because it's worth reiterating - Being hollowed basically just means you're saying no to the mp match-making. (It also prevents you from kindling bonfires for more healing charges.) You won't see the various kinds of summon signs that let you welcome people into your game, but you also won't be a target for various kinds of invasions.

There are also a few scripted summon signs and invasions that can get you rare loot, and you need to be a human to see those too. (They disappear once the boss in that area has been cleared.)

Clearing a boss also prevents you from doing online summons in whatever area the boss resided in, and maybe prevents online invasions in that area as well?

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Yup, did it all on my own whilst hollowed :(. I actually attempted what you suggested. Turned into human form at bonfire by the blacksmith after 10 or so tries, headed into the church, took out all enemies on the first floor, proceeded to get invaded by a thief with lightning daggers who tore me a new one and never got the chance to place the summon stone where I wanted.

Yeah, invasions can be annoying. I just want to make sure you're aware - when summoning others into your world you're not placing anything, you just find their sign and use it. To be summoned into someone else's world you use the white summoning sign, and you can do that whether you're human or hollowed. It's a good way to get some souls and see parts of an area you might not have already done yourself.

Clearing a boss also prevents you from doing online summons in whatever area the boss resided in, and maybe prevents online invasions in that area as well?

It does, yes. Clearing a boss basically turns off multiplayer (except for messages, I think) in that area. It's worth noting, though, that there are actually more "areas" in the game than there are named areas. For example there are two separate bosses in Undead Burg, one in upper and one in lower - the name is the same and you'll never get a new area name popping up if moving between them, but there is an invisible dividing territory line.

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Yeah, invasions can be annoying. I just want to make sure you're aware - when summoning others into your world you're not placing anything, you just find their sign and use it. To be summoned into someone else's world you use the white summoning sign, and you can do that whether you're human or hollowed. It's a good way to get some souls and see parts of an area you might not have already done yourself.

It does, yes. Clearing a boss basically turns off multiplayer (except for messages, I think) in that area. It's worth noting, though, that there are actually more "areas" in the game than there are named areas. For example there are two separate bosses in Undead Burg, one in upper and one in lower - the name is the same and you'll never get a new area name popping up if moving between them, but there is an invisible dividing territory line.

Well that's definitely good to know :) I've just realised what you meant about the summon signs and actually attempted to take on the

gaping dragon

with Solaire and another person and it was pretty sweet although I did die :( but hey that's part of the experience :P

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Oh, something I didn't mention. You can still be summoned to help someone else for a boss you've already done. So if you beat a boss and enjoyed it, or just want to help others out and get some souls and humanity, you can just put your summon sign somewhere convenient (the latest bonfire before the boss is often used if it's close enough) and potentially get summoned in for it.

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Oh, something I didn't mention. You can still be summoned to help someone else for a boss you've already done. So if you beat a boss and enjoyed it, or just want to help others out and get some souls and humanity, you can just put your summon sign somewhere convenient (the latest bonfire before the boss is often used if it's close enough) and potentially get summoned in for it.

I just thought about asking this :) thanks for info :tup:

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It is my understanding that the patch has finally gone live and is apparently wonderful and fixes everything that was wrong.

Which is great, i'd like to play more Dark Souls.

But i can't.

Because Skyrim.

These two games have done more to fuck up my sleep patterns than anything else in recent memory, man.

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Some of you guys had been saying you were interested in Dark Souls, but didn't want to play it on a console.

Well this happened.

Of course, a Namco community manager talking up a storm on a forum doesn't equate to From devoting the resources to making it happen, but hey, it's nice to hope for things, right?

Personally, I don't know how well the online component of this game would transfer to a more open environment though. The weird metagame is so important, but it feels like hacking would probably end up being a problem on the PC, and in the context of this game it would be unavoidable. (You cannot simply choose who you play with as you would in other notable co-op RPG's that have had problems with hacking, such as Borderlands and Dead Island.)

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I've been playing my second character over the last week after I got hooked again. Going for a super strength, heavy armor/weapons user. Saved up a whopping 58 strength so I could forge Smough's Hammer, one of the unique boss weapons, but I've also got a ton of heavy axes and fist weapons that scale with strength, with the best upgraded heavy armor that you need high strength to use.

Fun way to play. Bosses and enemies that use to crush my previous, jack of all trades character, tire themselves out against my heavy armor, only to get their face smashed in with a giant axe haha.

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It is my understanding that the patch has finally gone live and is apparently wonderful and fixes everything that was wrong.

Which is great, i'd like to play more Dark Souls.

But i can't.

Because Skyrim.

These two games have done more to fuck up my sleep patterns than anything else in recent memory, man.

I had a different reaction. The games cancelled each other out and now I play neither. Nuts.

Though, to be fair, work has been busy and I'm just not playing much of anything.

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I actually did go back and play another ten-twenty hours of Dark Souls, the patch is very nice and very comprehensive. Most of the bugs and exploits that i was aware of seem to have been fixed, they've tried to address some of the performance problems in certain areas to admittedly middling results, and most of the rebalancing makes a good deal of sense.

One of the more in-your-face annoyances, the bug that was causing randomly dropped inputs, was blessedly fixed.

The only thing that wasn't sitting well with me was just how hard the Tranquil Walk miracle was nerfed. (It was nerfed because it was being abused in PVP, but it's so weak now that it's of no use for anything but PVP, and i was using it for general combat. Arrgh.)

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PvP is still pretty worthless because of the hit detection and reliance on animations. I can't tell you how many times I've been backstabbed when the guy was cleary at my front or side

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I've definitely been back-stabbed from odd angles, i think it's a sync issue with the netcode, with the player executing the stab getting priority based on how they saw the scene.

Considering both my initial run through the game and the time i spent with it again not long ago, I had won probably 3/4th's of the PVP encounters i had while playing, including fights against backstabbers, by just playing a fairly defensive and straight-forward knight with very good armor. I've survived backstabs and come back to win by locking opponents in stagger with repeated strikes from my sword. (Having very high stamina and a very good fire longsword with a bleed bonus, getting in one hit on an opponent usually let me carry through to a kill.)

Post patch, you can also lock onto stealthed players at close range, eliminating one of the major tools of backstabbers. (The Tranquil Walk miracle was one of the others.)

I don't know, the netcode in Dark Souls isn't great, but i never felt like it was costing me wins. (But again, i had enough armor, health, and stamina to afford mistakes and hiccups.)

I had actually also sorted out my build such that i was wearing armor that was comparable to some of the best armor in the game, while i was moving with the sub-50% encumbrance move set. All in all, i was really happy with the build i had worked out for myself.

I mean, but yeah, from my perspective, i wasn't having that much of a problem with backstabbers.

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