toblix

Mass Effect 3

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So I decided I'd play the ME trilogy back to front, because I'd played all three games on release, which necessitates a loss of knowledge and continuity because of the time span of game releases.

How anyone found anything good about ME1 is beyond me. The combat is terrible, the squad AI is the worst I've ever seen in a squad game, I want to shoot Liara into a black hole, there isn't enough Keith David (tip: there's never enough Keith David) and ho-ho-hooooly shit is some of the writing bad.

Not that the last one changes much.

E: Elevators, clearly invented by Satan.

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How anyone found anything good about ME1 is beyond me.

Playing Space Detective in a well-realized world with a group of usually interesting characters was a rewarding experience for me. The tone of ME1 felt so much less about explosions and badassery and more about intrigue than the second two games, not to mention most of the action genre. That said, the issues you mention are quite valid (well, not the one about Liara).

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The Liara one I feel is valid because she's an incredibly annoying child in the first game but an actually decent (if not great) character in the second, and especially in Shadow Broker. And no, it's not because she's a child for an Asari, it doesn't take 110 years to be less of a brat.

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Because maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I missed something, or was in the wrong mindset. I definitely never did Mass Effect 1 properly, and if I can change my view on KOTOR 2, I might see a new side to Mass Effect. Not to mention that as much as I rally against parts of them, I think my 'review' of 2 is sufficient in pointing out that I actually really like that game.

Reapers are still dumb.

E: Turns out I did not play ME2 through on release, thereby invalidating my earlier claim, but I revalidate it because my memory is atrocious. Here is said 'review' for reference. http://www.idlethumb...740#entry159360

E2: I think of it as my Christmas present to the world really. Maybe ME isn't really that bad, guys! (But it probably is!)

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I like Mass Effect 1 most of the three not for it being a particularly great game, but for being the most interesting of the 3. The two sequels play it so safe and are so pandering.

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I like Mass Effect 1 most of the three not for it being a particularly great game, but for being the most interesting of the 3. The two sequels play it so safe and are so pandering.

Yeah.

Playing Space Detective in a well-realized world with a group of usually interesting characters was a rewarding experience for me. The tone of ME1 felt so much less about explosions and badassery and more about intrigue than the second two games, not to mention most of the action genre.

Yeah.

I think ME3 is a bit better than ME2. But both are much more "We are going to go kill a bunch of baddies!" than ME, which is why they suffer. That, and they suffer from the sequelitis of having to make constant callbacks to the first game, which only serves to highlight the disparity even more, as well as all the ways in which your choices have been overridden by the need to control costs and (WHY?) voice-act every goddamn line.

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I like Mass Effect 1 most of the three not for it being a particularly great game, but for being the most interesting of the 3. The two sequels play it so safe and are so pandering.

I'd agree. There's many many things wrong with ME1, but there was an interesting atmosphere and plot. ME2, while definitely improving things as a game (less annoying, more enjoyable), sadly the story was insanely dull. ME3 thoughts pending.

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I think ME1 is mechanically just a much more interesting game than the sequels, it took so many more risks. (I, for one, liked the Mako exploration.) The sequels are clearly more competently made productions, but they pared things down so much.

I mean, and all the pandering bullshit in the sequels, how you see things like Ashley Williams going from this to this. Or, you know, those long lingering ass shots on Miranda in ME2.

I also take issue with the fact that the sequels are essentially framing devices for a lot of unconnected vignettes, i always felt like the first game had a stronger narrative core.

Or that that phenomenal ME1 soundtrack that became just a little bit more bland in the sequels.

Or them not sticking to their guns on the cooldown mechanic that they went to great lengths to justify in a particularly interesting way, just shifting everything over to a more convential ammunition model. (Maybe i'm the only person this really bothered, but it really bothered me.)

Or how absolutely massive the city spaces were in the first game, and how much there was to do in them. (Though to be fair, the first game was also incredibly guilty of reusing a small handful of spaces over and over and over for combat encounters, and that certainly was halted in the sequels.)

I also never really understood the hate for the elevator. I mean, seamless loading while your party members have an amusing little chat versus staring at a literal loading screen. I suppose it's a different experience with a sufficiently fast PC, but for a significant number of gamers, Mass Effect started and stopped on the 360. (ME1 came out on the 360 first, and since that's where my save was, there wasn't really even a choice about where to play the sequels.)

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I also never really understood the hate for the elevator. I mean, seamless loading while your party members have an amusing little chat versus staring at a literal loading screen. I suppose it's a different experience with a sufficiently fast PC, but for a significant number of gamers, Mass Effect started and stopped on the 360. (ME1 came out on the 360 first, and since that's where my save was, there wasn't really even a choice about where to play the sequels.)

Hey, guess what there aren't in my game. Elevator conversations.

Also I like how you carefully avoided the fact that it plays like shit.

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Barely functional squad AI, idiot enemies, a useless cover system, terrible balance, and sluggish control to top it all off.

I still think it's a better and more interesting game than the sequels, BioWare lost more than they gained.

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Or how absolutely massive the city spaces were in the first game, and how much there was to do in them. (Though to be fair, the first game was also incredibly guilty of reusing a small handful of spaces over and over and over for combat encounters, and that certainly was halted in the sequels.)

I also never really understood the hate for the elevator. I mean, seamless loading while your party members have an amusing little chat versus staring at a literal loading screen. I suppose it's a different experience with a sufficiently fast PC, but for a significant number of gamers, Mass Effect started and stopped on the 360. (ME1 came out on the 360 first, and since that's where my save was, there wasn't really even a choice about where to play the sequels.)

This is where we divide. There was nothing to do in those massive levels. It was just a huge pain in the arse getting from one place to the next for the sake of a conversation. The elevators were plain evil, and part of the "bigger is better" sickness that plagued the first game -- if the levels weren't so unnecessarily huge, you wouldn't need to take the world's slowest elevator to get to different parts of them. Think about your ship, the Normandy; Just getting to a slightly different deck so you could talk to your crew members took forever. What was gained by that choice?

Consider how they did it in Knights of the Old Republic -- being able to quickly skip around your ship to see if anyone had anything new to say was much better. The adding of floors and elevators to an area like that was completely unnecessary. Same goes for the Citadel -- huge empty spaces of nothing that were never actually used for anything. In ME2 they cut the area down massively, and it worked much better.

I contend that the mechanics of the first game were a mess. So was the characterization, for that matter. Hint: If all your character has to say is tell you is an insanely detailed history of their culture, your characters are too boring. Especially since, after forcing myself to pay attention to it, they go and change it in the sequels anyway. Utterly, utterly pointless.

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I feel like in theory I should enjoy these games, but in practice RPGs in general just bore me to tears. I played Mass Effect because I thought the universe was interesting, and the combat was ... well, at least better than fighting rats. But the dialogue is all "Hello, here's my life story" *drones on for 5 minutes*. I like dialogue, but I don't like big chunks of exposition, especially when I don't understand (or care about) half of what they're going on about. Adventure games (the LucasArts kind) did a much better job of pacing the exposition and storytelling.

Then there's the whole level-threadmill thing, which kinda conflicts with telling a well-paced story.

Anyway thumbs, am I the only person who feels this way? Or have I just picked the wrong game(s)?

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Arbitrary numbers on Mass Effect The First!

6/10

And it get points deducted almost entirely for gameplay. Also still the stupidest boss ever.

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No, you're absolutely right, but ME1 was the worst offender. "Greetings, I'm an Asari. Let me tell you about the history of my culture. *drones on* Aren't the designers so amazing for creating such a detailed universe? Let me tell you some more. *drones on* It's funny because despite of all this detail I've completely ignored the fact that I speak perfect English and look like a sexy humanoid. Before you think about that, let me tell you how my culture has sex. *drones on*"

Next conversation: "Greetings, I'm a Quarian, here's the complete history of my peoples..."

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If you need proof that BioWare gives exactly zero fucks about your personal story, you only need to play fifteen minutes of Mass Effect 2.

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This is where we divide. There was nothing to do in those massive levels. It was just a huge pain in the arse getting from one place to the next for the sake of a conversation. The elevators were plain evil, and part of the "bigger is better" sickness that plagued the first game -- if the levels weren't so unnecessarily huge, you wouldn't need to take the world's slowest elevator to get to different parts of them. Think about your ship, the Normandy; Just getting to a slightly different deck so you could talk to your crew members took forever. What was gained by that choice?

Consider how they did it in Knights of the Old Republic -- being able to quickly skip around your ship to see if anyone had anything new to say was much better. The adding of floors and elevators to an area like that was completely unnecessary. Same goes for the Citadel -- huge empty spaces of nothing that were never actually used for anything. In ME2 they cut the area down massively, and it worked much better.

I really disagree. I mean, even though citadel spaces in 2 and 3 are so sparsely populated and small, it didn't stop them from breaking them up with interminable loading screens. In ME3, there are loading sequences between different rooms of the normady on the same deck! All of the games have had absolutely ridiculous load times in the non-combat spaces, the first game just actually justified it with enormous places filled with things to see and do, people to talk to, quests to embark upon.

I like having spaces to explore, and the citadel feels like a series of dioramas in the sequels.

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Each one of the games suffers from having tons and tons of totally useless busywork that doesn't actually add at all to the game. It's a bit different in every game, but they never felt confident enough to leave out crap that doesn't matter. The Citadel in ME1 was a slog, ME2 had some assorted stuff that wasn't that bad and then it had the goddamn mining minigame, ME3 was filled to the brim with stuff you felt like you had to do because of the readiness counter, but was just a waste of everyone's time.

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No, you're absolutely right, but ME1 was the worst offender. "Greetings, I'm an Asari. Let me tell you about the history of my culture. *drones on* Aren't the designers so amazing for creating such a detailed universe? Let me tell you some more. *drones on* It's funny because despite of all this detail I've completely ignored the fact that I speak perfect English and look like a sexy humanoid. Before you think about that, let me tell you how my culture has sex. *drones on*"

Next conversation: "Greetings, I'm a Quarian, here's the complete history of my peoples..."

It seems even more hamfisted to me when you consider that a "veteran" like Shepard probably would have encountered at least some of these races before. Or at least heard about them.

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It seems even more hamfisted to me when you consider that a "veteran" like Shepard probably would have encountered at least some of these races before. Or at least heard about them.

That's a good point.

Also: "Hi, my name's Johnny. I'm a human. We discovered an old Prothean ruin a few hundred years ago, and made our way to the Citadel. We're not a full council race yet, but we hope to be one day. We haven't really been in any wars with other races, but some of the other races distrust us. For procreation our species requires a male and a female. The female then carries the newborn for nine of our lunar months, whereupon both male and female raise the child for approximately 18 of our solar cycles. Do you know where I could find a bathroom around here?"

If every conversation starts like that in the future, then I'm glad I won't be around to see it.

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I'd be okay with it if these conversations would then end with "I will play you the song of my people" and BAM space vuvuzelas.

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