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Yeah, the dungeons themselves are the weakest part of the game for me. Which is a shame, because you do a lot of them.

Regarding armour debuffing magic: if that's true, and I kind of suspect it is, that actually sort of pisses me off. They really need to explain things like that. Even the races aren't properly explained anymore. I understand they wanted to get away from the character creation screen where people had to look at a bunch of stats and make a hundred small choices they don't understand yet, but some things do need to be spelled out. I didn't even know there were skills that started off better for different races, for example.

If magic suffers heavily while wearing armour, it makes my plans as a Smith/Enchanter kind of stupid. In fact, it makes Enchanting in general kind of stupid as a mage skill (which, lorewise, it's absolutely meant to be) as you're not realistically going to want to enchant non-armour clothes. The robes you find are better than anything you could create. The only reason to enchant the non-jewellery apparel as a mage is to get some benefit to defence by wearing armour while still making sure you have magical bonuses.

I know I sound like I hate everything about this game ever time I post in this thread, but that's not true at all. Actually it's the fact that I enjoy it so much and have spent so much time playing it that makes these (comparatively) minor problems so irritating to me.

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Actually I found out that since I was using "combined" enchantment, it could only be applied on armor, when I got "Fortify Destruction" separately, I could use it on a lot more items.

The invisibility thing really messed up my plans for the thieves guild, because that's what I did in Oblvion, I became a powerful mage and used invisibility since I never used sneak.

It's kinda weird that to enjoy the full game you have to play "both sides", you don't want to miss out on the guild quests and half of them are kinda evil. It also sucks that you have to pick sides with some factions.

It was kinda heart breaking when the war started I the side I chose attacked a town I just spent the last hours helping... ;(

It seems strange that I've become the Archmage and yet still they won't sell me the most powerful spells, maybe I need to have a higher level in that category? That would make sense.

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Does the war start in the main quest? Or after you join either Stormcloaks/Imperials? I haven't done the main quest besides answering the Greybeards' summons.

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I think it's only part of the Stormcloaks/Empire quest? Frankly, I'm not even sure what the main quest is anymore, is that a good thing or bad thing?:erm:

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ffs... Steam won't let me play Skyrim. Apparently there's an update, but I can't download it because the servers are too busy. And because there's an update I cannot play the game. :(

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Invisibility is useless in this game, I'm trying to use it in the thieves' guild quest and they can still see me!;(

You might still have to be in stealth for it to function properly, and not have been seen when you started using it, and the second you do anything other than move, the effect will disappear.

It does work, there's just a lot of restrictions on it.

In fact, it works the same as it always did, perhaps you're confused about Skyrim no longer have the chameleon spell, which quite frankly, was always totally broken and should be gone.

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It's definitely not as good as in Oblivion, it's almost funny, I get caught because they hear me casting the spell! :mock:

Does anybody find it annoying that completing the faction quests doesn't really do anything? You could be the Archmage, head of the Thieves and Dark Brotherhood and.... the guards will still only comment on "how they used to be adventurer, but they they took an arrow to the knee" or something related to one of your higher stats.

It would be nice if it had some effect on the world, if only just have a guard or two call me by my new titles.

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Does the war start in the main quest? Or after you join either Stormcloaks/Imperials? I haven't done the main quest besides answering the Greybeards' summons.

It starts when you pick a side, it's the only part of the game where you one quest path locks out another. It apparently also runs autonomously, with or without your input. So if you join either faction and then go around ignoring it, it will still be happening, there will still be battles going on outside of cities.

Yeah, the dungeons themselves are the weakest part of the game for me. Which is a shame, because you do a lot of them.

I've really been enjoying the dungeons, i think they are a dramatic improvement over the dungeons of Oblivion.

Do you just not like the dungeon diving aspect of the game?

Regarding armour debuffing magic: if that's true, and I kind of suspect it is, that actually sort of pisses me off. They really need to explain things like that. Even the races aren't properly explained anymore. I understand they wanted to get away from the character creation screen where people had to look at a bunch of stats and make a hundred small choices they don't understand yet, but some things do need to be spelled out. I didn't even know there were skills that started off better for different races, for example.

Actually, actually... Looking into it more, don't worry about it. Apparently they got rid of armor-based magic debuffs in Skyrim, it doesn't affect casting anymore. (It is, however, still a thing in Morrowind and Oblivion that was never really explained.)

As for the races, it's not the greatest justification for it, but the distribution of starting points for skills doesn't really matter much in Skyrim. The way the leveling works in this game makes progression perfectly even for every race. There is no race that has a higher theoretical cap or anything, and there's nothing like higher endurance giving you more HP per level. Unless you're really concerned about how much work you will have to put into certain skills in the opening hours of a playthrough, the abilities really are the only thing you need to be aware of.

TES has always been kind of bad about surfacing information though, i think Bethesda wants the games to be more experiential than numerical, but the armor debuffs were always a shining example of something important not really being properly conveyed.

If magic suffers heavily while wearing armour, it makes my plans as a Smith/Enchanter kind of stupid. In fact, it makes Enchanting in general kind of stupid as a mage skill (which, lorewise, it's absolutely meant to be) as you're not realistically going to want to enchant non-armour clothes. The robes you find are better than anything you could create. The only reason to enchant the non-jewellery apparel as a mage is to get some benefit to defence by wearing armour while still making sure you have magical bonuses.

Current information tells me that the armor debuff on casting is gone, so there you go, your mage/enchanter build isn't fucked.

I know I sound like I hate everything about this game ever time I post in this thread, but that's not true at all. Actually it's the fact that I enjoy it so much and have spent so much time playing it that makes these (comparatively) minor problems so irritating to me.

That's kind of the TES experience for a lot of people. Look at all the people who bitch about Oblivion, but never stopped playing it. Morrowind too, even. People have nothing but rosy memories about that game now, but i remember how much it crashed and how bad the dice-role combat was.

It's definitely not as good as in Oblivion, it's almost funny, I get caught because they hear me casting the spell! :mock:

There's a perk for illusion that makes your casting quieter. :mock:

Does anybody find it annoying that completing the faction quests doesn't really do anything? You could be the Archmage, head of the Thieves and Dark Brotherhood and.... the guards will still only comment on "how they used to be adventurer, but they they took an arrow to the knee" or something related to one of your higher stats.

It would be nice if it had some effect on the world, if only just have a guard or two call me by my new titles.

Well, people have had that complaint about every TES game.

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This happened: I'm now stronger at unarmed combat than with a one-handed weapon thanks to one of the heavy armor perks.

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This happened: I'm now stronger at unarmed combat than with a one-handed weapon thanks to one of the heavy armor perks.

That was how I did half to three-fourths of the game as Khajit. Punch bears all day.

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I've had people comment on my guild affiliations, as well as reference my various afflictions. Werewolf: "you smell like a wet dog", or if i haven't fed recently I'll get comments on how pale I am as my vampire.

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In fact, it works the same as it always did, perhaps you're confused about Skyrim no longer have the chameleon spell, which quite frankly, was always totally broken and should be gone.

IIRC I stopped playing Oblivion after I broke chameleon and ran about for a while completely invisible, never having to even fight.

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I've really been enjoying the dungeons, i think they are a dramatic improvement over the dungeons of Oblivion.

Do you just not like the dungeon diving aspect of the game?

I agree that they're better than Oblivion, but yeah that whole segment of the game just doesn't interest me all that much. As soon as the objective becomes "go into a place, kill everyone, loot everything" it suddenly feels like every other RPG. It's not bad, per se, it's just the weakest part of an otherwise pretty unique game for me. It is worth noting that now and then there are moments in dungeons that are very interesting or cool; occasionally you come into a huge, beautiful water-lined cavern or stumble upon necromancers trying to summon an ancient evil or whatever. Again, I feel like I need to give the disclaimer that I enjoy most of this game, but that doesn't mean the experience is always interesting.

Actually, actually... Looking into it more, don't worry about it. Apparently they got rid of armor-based magic debuffs in Skyrim, it doesn't affect casting anymore. (It is, however, still a thing in Morrowind and Oblivion that was never really explained.)

As for the races, it's not the greatest justification for it, but the distribution of starting points for skills doesn't really matter much in Skyrim. The way the leveling works in this game makes progression perfectly even for every race. There is no race that has a higher theoretical cap or anything, and there's nothing like higher endurance giving you more HP per level. Unless you're really concerned about how much work you will have to put into certain skills in the opening hours of a playthrough, the abilities really are the only thing you need to be aware of.

TES has always been kind of bad about surfacing information though, i think Bethesda wants the games to be more experiential than numerical, but the armor debuffs were always a shining example of something important not really being properly conveyed.

If the debuff isn't there anymore, great, that solves my problems. Ideally there would be good reasons for mages to wear robes (since every other mage in the world seems to) but it would be properly balanced within all the systems. Just not having restrictions is a good second place, though, so I'm happy.

I definitely understand and agree that starting skills aren't that important in Skyrim, and I get what they're going for with the "more experiential than numerical" and even approve of it to an extent. However, as you said it doesn't change the fact that the games have always been guilty of not properly informing people of things that might be important to them.

I think this bothers me at the moment more than usual because Dark Souls is fresh in my mind. I'm not going to make out that Dark Souls informs its players better about anything, as that would make me a crazy person. Its systems are just so solid and considered in the way they interlock that as soon as you actually figure them out (probably with the help of wikis) the whole thing makes sense and you can see how certain restrictions work and how there are many viable ways to play, but they all have sensible advantages and disadvantages. The Elder Scrolls games, by comparison, don't seem to really balance the different manners in which characters can be created at all, and just rely on the fact that the normal difficulty level is not super challenging and certain skills and items and tactics are so strong as to make unexpected weaknesses in other parts of a player's build irrelevant.

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I'm curious, which side did you choose on the war? I chose the Stormcloaks and I don't regret it since the first thing I saw entering the capital of the Empire was a public execution of a Stormcloak, or maybe just a nord that wasn't on their side?

They want to regulate Skyrim's beliefs and they seem to hate Nord culture in general?

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the stormcloaks are mostly super racist. Except for the second in command guy who is pretty awesome. I went imperial for that reason, have not checked out the stormcloak side of things yet.

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I'm playing as an elf, and I didn't get that vibe from them, but I've only done two missions with them.

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I'm playing as an elf, and I didn't get that vibe from them, but I've only done two missions with them.

The first time you ever set foot in windhelm there is a 3 minute conversation where two stormcloaks are shitting on a dark elf for being not-nord. Also the second in command guy makes specific mention of you being not nord, but says he's personally ok with that.

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They treat the Argonians even worse! Make them live in a shelter on the docks.

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It looks to me that they try their best to show both sides at their worst, one will hate you for your race, the other will hate you for your beliefs. I haven't spent much time in Imperial cities, so apart from the execution... and the execution at the beginning of the game I don't really know much about the Empire, but I guess it's too late for me... Oh well, "Viking land" should be for the "Vikings" anyway. :mock:

I wouldn't be surprised if I became their leader, but I wouldn't be surprised if that changed nothing in the world. "Hey guys, let's be nicer to other races!" will not be an option, and I'm pretty sure you can't get the Empire to let the Nords worship Talos again?

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Having now seen every corner of Skyrim, i think the Reach is my favorite region.

The Forsworn are annoying enemies, but that whole area feels precision engineered to be beautiful, some really incredible scenery.

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Sno, crusader for other peoples problems with Skyrim. Love it. :tup:

I need to start playing this again. I logged about 60 hours with once character on a shitty computer while this one was in the shop and just haven't started it up again.

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I think I need to take break of Skyrim, I thought I was done with the Thieves' Guild questline, only to find out I still have to "restore it to it's proper glory".

I wanted to be "finish" the game in time for Xmas, but I don't think I'll have time even with all the free time I have now.

I have to do the main quest, which I don't even know which it is, the Dragon Slayer one?

I have to return the Thieves' Guild to it's Glory, finish the war quests, do the whole Dark Brotherhood and apparently there is now some Circle to join? :frusty::gaming:

Oh well, maybe I can finish it before the year ends? :erm:

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The main quest is the thing with the dragons, yeah.

Also, from my past experience with these games, you can probably expect to sink around 200-300 hours or more if you want to do "everything".

So...

Probably don't try?

Probably.

I think i might try.

But i wouldn't recommend it.

I think this bothers me at the moment more than usual because Dark Souls is fresh in my mind. I'm not going to make out that Dark Souls informs its players better about anything, as that would make me a crazy person. Its systems are just so solid and considered in the way they interlock that as soon as you actually figure them out (probably with the help of wikis) the whole thing makes sense and you can see how certain restrictions work and how there are many viable ways to play, but they all have sensible advantages and disadvantages. The Elder Scrolls games, by comparison, don't seem to really balance the different manners in which characters can be created at all, and just rely on the fact that the normal difficulty level is not super challenging and certain skills and items and tactics are so strong as to make unexpected weaknesses in other parts of a player's build irrelevant.

They're such different games though, and i think Dark Souls is able to be what it is because it's a controlled, directed experience. I mean, even though it's ostensibly a very large game with a very big world, there's still a predictable path of progression there. They know what people are going to do, and can design around it. They can make the systems really tight and really balanced, get stuff really refined and working really well.

Skyrim doesn't have the luxury of having any idea what the player is going to do, there have to be much broader tolerances for what the player can get away with. Skyrim also doesn't have a resurrection mechanic hauling a player back to a safe restore point upon death, you are fully committed to encounters and have to deal with them right then and there.

I just don't know how you would build a game like Skyrim for the kind of gameplay that Dark Souls has, i don't think you could.

Random, completely unrelated complaint - The absence of sorting options in the inventory sucks. It really, really sucks. It has always sucked, ever since Morrowind. I don't understand how this isn't something they've ever addressed. My potions menu is a nightmare, the naming scheme on those things is not conducive to an alphabetically sorted list.

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