Nintendo 3DS

[Justin Leego]

I still think Ocarina 3D is a clunky port, but... I guess it's a matter of minutia. People always sho

 

BOOOO!!

[Griddlelol]

I kinda agree. It's so...bright! I loved the game, and having on 3ds meant I actually beat it (closing the system down and not having to restart the dungeon was beautiful). I've not looked at the comparison for MM, but considering I've never played the original, I doubt I'll notice the small things. 

 

I hate that I'm one of those people that considers OoT to be one of their favourite games. Bleh, so cliché. Hopefully MM will take its place. 

[Professor Video Games]

I'm pretty sure arguing that MM is ACTUALLY the best Zelda game is the real cliche at this point.

[BobbyBesar]

Majora's Mask is the hipster best Zelda game. (i.e. "You probably haven't heard of it.")

 

At least a re-release will change that and it can be judged on its merits instead of having some weird mystique. (See also: Radiant Silvergun, Sin & Punishment)

[Griddlelol]

I'm pretty sure arguing that MM is ACTUALLY the best Zelda game is the real cliche at this point.

 

We all know the best is WW.

[Professor Video Games]

We all know the best is WW.

 

Objectively true.

[aprettycooldude]

I'm still of the firm "OoT is best game ever" mindset and do not really care about how trite it is at this point, but I remain thrilled that everyone seems to accept Wind Waker is a Top 3 Zelda game. I don't think I've ever seen it further down than that on anyone's lists, whereas Ocarina occasionally dips to 4 or 5.

 

(personal top three are OoT, Link's Awakening, and Wind Waker, for reference)

[Twig]

I'm pretty sure arguing that MM is ACTUALLY the best Zelda game is the real cliche at this point.

That's true. There's no room for argument, so I don't know why people bother. It's easier to just state it as a fact.

[Professor Video Games]

That's true. There's no room for argument, so I don't know why people bother. It's easier to just state it as a fact.

[Twig]

???

[Professor Video Games]

That's my counterargument to your "fact"

[kaputt]

I still think Ocarina 3D is a clunky port, but... I guess it's a matter of minutia. People always shout me down when i try to talk about that. If you've never played Ocarina, or if you really love Ocarina, Ocarina 3D is a very nice looking version of what is still a really great and really important game.

Kid Icarus Uprising, on the other hand, is a game i personally really love, but... it definitely helps to know what you're getting into, which is that it's a third-person shooter with an initially awkward control scheme and a big emphasis on what is actually a really well handled loot grind. The campaign is fairly long and the story is surprisingly full of charm and knowing reference, but if you just zip through it on a low difficulty and call it a day, you might not feel like you've gotten all that much out of it, it's built to be replayed multiple times. (Lots of hidden areas, a very broad difficulty slider, a surprisingly deep loot system, and even incidental lines of dialogue that actually randomly cycle through variations on subsequent playthroughs as just a small way to keep things seeming fresh.)

I see. I was worried when you said "loot system", I'm actually kinda indifferent to that, but I don't know, in the videos the game seems great, and I do want to try some action oriented title from Nintendo. And maybe I'll like the loot in the game because it can improve your equipment, as I heard. I usually dislike loot when you get lots of useless stuff.

I think it might be a good game, even with it's clunky controls. I'm really leaning towards it instead OoT.

Oh, and one last question: do you think the stand that comes with the physical version of the game is needed? I'd prefer to buy it via eShop, it's cheaper that way.

I realize you made up your mind on this but I'm going to vent on Dream Team anyway.

I've put quite a few hours into it (maybe 2/3 through?). There's some good writing in there (there was a level where you climb a mountain dedicated to buff bodybuilders that was great) and some fun mechanics, but it has some serious flaws that boil down to the game being too long and tedious. Like there's way too much dialogue, the worst of it being from these two characters that tag along with you and seem to exist just to be boring and explicitly spell things out (the idiot pillow prince and that star thing). And the combat isn't bad, but it can take a while to get through a battle even when you have the enemies figured out and there's just so many filler areas the combat becomes more tedious than fun. I still tell myself I'll go back and finish it but I'm not so sure. I really liked the first Mario & Luigi game and the second one was ok. Maybe I should play Bowser's Inside Story instead...I hear it's the best one.

Oh and yeah any special attack that required tilt controls was a pain in the butt.

Tilt controls do suck, at least on Vita they did. Thanks for your impressions as well, I was thinking of getting it because it reminded me a little of Mario RPG, but I see it's not worthy now.

[Twig]

I didn't state any facts! But I will now!

 

Majora's Mask is, hands down, the best Zelda game.

[syntheticgerbil]

I'm pretty sure arguing that MM is ACTUALLY the best Zelda game is the real cliche at this point.

Yeah I've kind of always hated that. It's like, you're not a REAL Zelda fan unless you whisper about the greatness Majora's Mask.

 

Except everyone has been fucking saying it for years that's it's some kind of (relatively) unknown gem based on who knows what. I think it's because a lot of people know about this finicky and often tedious time and save system that it automatically puts many potential players off and therefore it snugly stays obscure.

 

This is not to say the game is bad, it's very interesting, looks very good, and is often very fun. However to ignore all of it's shortcomings really make it hard to explain why this one game in extremely popular series hovers in the background, and rightfully so. I notice when I talk to a lot of Zelda fans offhand about Majora's Mask, they didn't collect all masks, they didn't complete many side quests, and they didn't capture all of the ugly fairies in the dungeons.

 

Like, you pretty much have to have an FAQ if you want to 100% the game. A lot of the side quest stuff is poorly explained, especially due to time, and requires many restarts if you mess up. Like the Anju love quest is an absolute disaster of poor design. I had to go through that tediousness three times all because of the part where you suddenly are dropped in a timed sequence at the very end where you control both Link and Anju. Except, well, it's funny how for one fucking time in their tutorial laden life, Nintendo actually doesn't explain that you are controlling a second character. So first time I didn't get I was supposed to be moving him, second I just wasn't good enough, third I did it but I was pissed either way at all the time wasted for a stupid quest.

 

The heart pieces you can obtain in the four path tree area before the last boss are ones that you can be permanently locked out of obtaining if you miss them, a first in Zelda.

 

I was stuck fighting those flying Snakes after running out of magic with no way to go back to giant Link and since I was small, they could no longer kill me and allow me to start the level over. Instead I had to reset the console and lose tons of save progress.

 

I also remember something about restoring the Zora instruments being obnoxious, the minigames being too difficult, and the Skulltula house being hard to completely clear. Plus as I mentioned earlier the tedious switching of masks and the need to constantly refight all of these bosses.

 

For all of the quirkiness and fun I had in Majora's Mask over a decade ago, I also clearly remember these faults. My favorite Zelda is Wind Waker, and the HD version even more, and as much flack it got for being tedious with the triforce hunt, nothing in that game equals the tediousness of most of Majora's Mask.

 

I didn't state any facts! But I will now!

 

Majora's Mask is, hands down, the best Zelda game.

SO TWIG, to make sure here. Did you get everything? All heart pieces, all upgrades, all masks, all small fairies, all side quests finished?

[Twig]

Um. Yes?

 

To be clear I have literally zero interest in actually debating the game's worth. If you don't like it, I don't care. It doesn't bother me in the slightest. You clearly have a thousand times more emotional investment in this argument than I do.

[dium]

My love for Majora's Mask is at a nostalgia-fueled, unconditional fanboy level at this point. So I am psychologically unable to respond to criticisms about the game: for example, I'm sure it's valid to think some of the mask collecting is cryptic and tedious and dumb, but I loved that shit. Collecting the masks and fairies and ESPECIALLY doing the sidequests are all my favorite parts of that game, and are the elements that I'm saddest not to see in other titles. It can absolutely get tedious for some of the masks, but I can forgive some tedium because to me, the trade-off for the time mechanics and intricate NPC schedules is worth it.

 

I am somewhat irked that people think it's the hipster choice of Zelda, and that people like because it's oh-so-obscure or something. I don't suspect the new 3D release is going to change the landscape of public opinion about MM at all. People who've always expressed their love for MM will continue to love it for its kooky-dark atmosphere, willingness to experiment, and overall air of mystery that Zelda games benefit so much from having. People who like the game less (for legitimate reasons, I'm sure) aren't going to change their minds. And new players are probably going to fall into one of those two categories themselves.

 

Also I might be done with this forum's ironic use of "objectively" and "fact" when stating opinion, I'm going to have to install a cloud-to-butt style word filter or something.

[Twig]

Also I might be done with this forum's ironic use of "objectively" and "fact" when stating opinion, I'm going to have to install a cloud-to-butt style word filter or something.

 

I'm amused that you think it's exclusive to this forum. I see it everywhere! Can't escape it, might as well embrace it! Or cry. Both are valid options.

[dium]

You're probably right. If it's a video game thing, I don't visit very many other video game related places of discussion.

 

And the initial joke is funny, and objectivegamereviews is funny, I'm just easily annoyed and a grump.

[Twig]

Most people here are grumps so it works out!

[dartmonkey]

I played through Bowser's Inside Story a couple of months back, and while I appreciated the writing and the mechanics, it certainly dragged for me. It hasn't inspired me to go back to the series, although several people recommended Superstar Saga.

 

Majora's Mask is imprinted in my mind as the best because I did 100% it back in the day. I must have used guides or something because I'm really not great at games. But that game had several moments that knocked me for six. The tone it went for after the straightforward Hero's journey of Ocarina surprised me when I was 16 and the horror inflections struck a chord. I guess at the time I was starting to think about mortality and the cyclical nature of things and the inherent sadness and inevitability of human existence and the game touched all of those points in an elegant manner, especially for a video game in the year 2000. I have vivid memories of a moment where, expecting the final boss, I was left confused and delighted and agog at what video games could do. I haven't played it since and have been busting for the 3DS remake so as not to tarnish my nostalgia with the crudeness of 14 year-old polygons.

 

Sorry guys, but you do know we're all hipsters now though, right? People see irony in my sincerity. It's horrible!

[Sno]

I see. I was worried when you said "loot system", I'm actually kinda indifferent to that, but I don't know, in the videos the game seems great, and I do want to try some action oriented title from Nintendo. And maybe I'll like the loot in the game because it can improve your equipment, as I heard. I usually dislike loot when you get lots of useless stuff.

 

I think it might be a good game, even with it's clunky controls. I'm really leaning towards it instead OoT.

Oh, and one last question: do you think the stand that comes with the physical version of the game is needed? I'd prefer to buy it via eShop, it's cheaper that way.

 

 

So there's a crafting system, in a fashion, where you can combine two items and have a preview of what the result will be, and the result will generally inherit some attributes from both parent items. The more weapons you have collected, the more you can play around to try and find different resulting weapons. You can't just endlessly improve an item though, because the crafting generally results in an average of the two, so you have to keep playing on harder and harder difficulties to obtain better base items to work from. Still, if you play through on a high difficulty and end up with a powerful item with terrible attributes, you can combine it with a lot of your weaker items that feature good attributes to try and finagle things so you end up with a really strong weapon that also has the attributes you want it to have. It's a cool system.

 

As for the stand, if you have played any d-pad & stylus FPS games on either the 3DS or the DS, you more or less know what the control will be and are also probably acclimated to that control enough that it won't kill your hands to just hold the system yourself. So if you're okay with controls like that, you probably don't need the stand. Frankly though, i think the stand is actually kind of nice to have, it's a nice place to just put the 3DS down during any game without losing sight of the screen, but it's definitely kind of superfluous.

[syntheticgerbil]

Um. Yes?

Just clarifying, because I tend to measure a games worth not just on the quality of design on the basic path but the quality of design on the road of obtaining full completion.

 

I am somewhat irked that people think it's the hipster choice of Zelda, and that people like because it's oh-so-obscure or something. I don't suspect the new 3D release is going to change the landscape of public opinion about MM at all. People who've always expressed their love for MM will continue to love it for its kooky-dark atmosphere, willingness to experiment, and overall air of mystery that Zelda games benefit so much from having.

I feel like from the Gamecube era and on this is how Majora's Mask has been treated, sort of like there's weirdos who think somehow the first Zelda game ever has the best design. Obviously the former has a point because I love Majora's Mask for all of the things you said, but I guess I also like Link's Awakening, Wind Waker, and Minish Cap for the same (well only the first is sort of dark). I've never been the biggest fan of the straightforward hero Zelda games like Link to the Past or Ocarina of Time.

 

I guess I completely understand if there are fans out there who either disliked the game or did not finish it. There's a lot to dislike there. But, this is Nintendo's chance to fix tedium, just as they did with Wind Waker. They didn't really mess with Ocarina outside of a couple of added Water Temple signs and making the boots no longer tedious to switch, but I think Majora's Mask has a lot of issues that they can work out and they should.

 

Also could they released this for WiiU and not for 3DS and do a much larger graphic overhaul? I'd prefer that.

[Twig]

I don't understand any of this, but I will say that Link's Awakening is obviously the best 2D Zelda and there's no disputing that.

[syntheticgerbil]

No it sucks because you don't grind enemies to buy fried bombs to burn every bush and blow up every wall, duh.

Gamers today, such babies, they don't know what the 80s were all about, so hardcore.

[Twig]

That's not why people like the original Zelda.