toblix

Kane & Lynch 2: Dog Days

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The demo on Xbox Live was hilarious. I got shot a lot, then fell to the ground. You're allowed to scoot around and return fire while on the ground, so instead of getting up, I spent most of my time scooting and shooting.

FUN FACT: Not one woman in the demo wears a top! Video Games!

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The demo didn't do this game a lot of favors, its got some interesting things going on (shakey cam, digital artifacts, getting knocked down) but the actual running around and shooting guys was downright boring.

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The demo didn't do this game a lot of favors, its got some interesting things going on (shakey cam, digital artifacts, getting knocked down) but the actual running around and shooting guys was downright boring.

Yeah I agree; finally got to check out the demo at a friends, after turning off the shaky cam the game got a little better, but also lost some of the cool look.

For mood and style I give it a ton of points, its cool, it grounded, it's gritty. But the game, while improved from what I remember the first one being, still isn't all that fun to play, movement and shooting is still pretty unpolished and with the shaky cam on it's almost a nightmare.

What's weird is it reminds me A LOT of the version of max payne 3 I was briefly worked on, just with better post fx and smaller areas.

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I don't know personally about the quality of this game, but I've seen Dtoid giving it a 1/10, whereas a friend of mine gave it 3.5/5 on the site we write for.

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I don't even have to look up that Destructoid review to know that it is by Jim Sterling.

One thing I found funny and odd related the game, is that in one of the trailers "Ultra violence" is one of the bullet points they use to promote the game...

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I don't even have to look up that Destructoid review to know that it is by Jim Sterling.

I know it is said often and by many, but man that guy bums me out. I avoid Destructoid half the time because I don't want to inadvertently give him clicks.

I was interested in the original after the review that said the PC version was good (pointed to by thumbs) but it wouldn't run on my computer. I haven't bothered to try and get it up and running yet. Fucking PC Gaming, etc. etc.

I'm kind of interested in any game set in modern day East Asia. So I might pick it up in the future but I have very little interest "at launch", as it were.

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Although the game doesn't look very interesting at all, I really dig the visual style and the digital artifacts they've added. I really hope this becomes a thing, like cover based game play, so that I can experience it in a game I want to play.

Ha, weird, your link leads to a two star review, but the homepage flashbox type thing leads to a THREE star review!!!

Gerstmann and Kane & Lynch! I'd love it if this were a joke but I'm sure it's much more mundane. I know I should read the reviews but it's late in Texas and I'm off to bed.

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I find the marketing and design/art direction intriguing; however, intrigue doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the gameplay or it being a "good" video game.

It kind of already seems like we went through the glitch aesthetic cliche though... maybe that was only movies though (ala Cloverfield)... now it's found it's way into video games through Kane & Lynch 2: Dog Days and the new shooter, Blacklight: Tango Down.

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Drath I think your totally misunderstanding the direction of the art, it's not really a reference in creating "glitches" or anything to do with Cloverfield(other then the fact it that Clover uses a handheld camcorder)

The look is more of a lowbudget/Unrefined HD camcorder. It's following the same ideals of the first one, make the game look like a Michael Mann film.

K&L 1 looked like an old Michael Mann flick such as Heat; K&L 2 looks a more recent one such as Miami Vice or sections of Public Enemy. Mann uses a pretty typical HD camera and doesn't get it cleaned up in post like most people, so it comes out grainy as hell.

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Drath I think your totally misunderstanding the direction of the art, it's not really a reference in creating "glitches" or anything to do with Cloverfield(other then the fact it that Clover uses a handheld camcorder)

I understand the intention is not to intentionally create "glitches", but the "glitch" aesthetic is being used as an art so-to-speak. It's not exactly subtle either, to a point where it is completely unrealistic (from a technical viewpoint) like Cloverfied, Terminator Salvation, Diary of the Dead or Quarantine (07'-08'). It's being used as a visual device, something to "define" it... make it stand out... kind of like a Mann movie (but less grainy and more data corruption-y). What I mean to say is that it was popular in movies for a brief time, now it is finding it's way in games recently... that's the comparison I am making.

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Glitch_art

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I understand the intention is not to intentionally create "glitches", but the "glitch" aesthetic is being used as an art so-to-speak. It's not exactly subtle either, to a point where it is completely unrealistic (from a technical viewpoint) like Cloverfied, Terminator Salvation, Diary of the Dead or Quarantine (07'-08'). It's being used as a visual device, something to "define" it... make it stand out... kind of like a Mann movie (but less grainy and more data corruption-y). What I mean to say is that it was popular in movies for a brief time, now it is finding it's way in games recently... that's the comparison I am making.

I think I'm hung up on you using the word glitch, there is nothing glitchy going on with either the game or the camera, it's intentional therefore not a glitch. Small issue I have, but just had to make that point.

Also, what is completely unrealistic? It's artistic choice for both the cinematographer and art director on Kane and Lynch. For Kane and Lynch, of course they have to simulate it, but I didn't see anything unrealistic about it as every thing I saw can be achieved with a normal handheld HD camera; avian its a deliberate choice to make some features more overt then others.

The difference I make with Michael Manns recent choice for cinematography and things like Cloverfield/Quarantine(I'm leaving Terminator out of this since I don't see the comparison other then film grain, but I'm pretty sure theirs was a post effect applied to the picture) is that Cloverfield and Quarantines entire premise was based on the gimmick of using a household camera. Michael Mann may use a low budget HD camera(compared to a film camera, it's still pretty expensive, something like 2-8k or something) but isn't necessarily trying to say "HEY LOOK! Theres a dude video taping this)

I think it's two very deliberate differences in artistic choice with extremely different results, for the most part Mann is still shooting the scenes like a movie, just with out a stabilizer or tripod at times. He pays a lot more attention to colour, light, posing, and composition(well he does this more then most movies anyway, that's why he's amazing) then Quarantine or Cloverfield who were trying to simulate everyday joe footage.

And yeah I guess K&L2 uses some of that stuff too, but I think overall the direction is much more deliberate in imitating Michael Mann; who as I explained is more deliberate in his cinematography to call it "glitchy".

I also don't think this is a new phenomenon for games, games since they went 3d have been trying to simulate a camera lens; some games try harder then others(again depends on the direction) it's just now some are executing it better or now being a little more overt in their film references.

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Perhaps it's a semantic issue with our definitions. I am using the word in an aesthetic sense, akin to, "Glitch art is the aestheticization of digital or analog errors, such as artifacts and other 'bugs'", so not a programmatic glitch, or unintentional glitch - but using it intentionally as a visual or art form.

What I meant by unrealistic is that when you get hit = corruption happens, or maybe a bit of grain, or pixelation. It's being used a damage mechanic instead of a realistic mechanic. For example, firing a shotgun beside a camera could in fact cause ACTUAL video signal corruption - maybe, maybe - maybe even a bit of grain. But that's not what is happening in the game. Those things are triggered by your character getting hurt ONLY. Does graininess happen when bad/good guys are getting blown away in Heat or Public Enemies? No, it's all natural and isn't manufactured, it's real, right from the camera. There is no camera in Kayne & Lynch therefore it's not realistic - everything is manufactured, programmatically, therefore using the "glitch" as a derivative artform.

Kayne & Lynch 2 and Blacklight: Tango Down are two examples in the last couple months that have used the "glitch aesthetic/art" as a visual style (like the movies I listed previously). I'm sure there is other examples recently as well.

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yeah I have to get off on my definition harping, since I know nothing about language, I just get hung up on certain things if it "bugs" me. Sorry if I'm a stick in the mud when it comes to that crap.

I'll check out some video of blacklight to see what you mean. I see what you mean about the damage aesthetic; yeah you'r probably right there, though I figured that all came from just the game trend of making death and hurting more interesting in games that began sometime after Half Life 1 was released. *Actually this may have something to do with games made after Saving Private Ryan.

It's just they pump up grain and such, since its working with the already established mechanisms and direction of their game; so keeping the continuity of it rather then putting blood splatter decals(gears of war? or something) on the screen.

I under stand there is no real camera in Kane and Lynch, but what I was saying is what they are simulating is more or less realistic as in cameras actually do that if you intentional enough to use them in such a way. It's intentional, but not unrealistic(Maybe in K&L2 the extremes they go to tread into the unrealistic, I'm not sure, I didn't play it enough)

The grain from recent Mann films is because hes using the raw HD footage without hollywood post FX. It does depend from shot to shot, which is just based on light, atmosphere,shutter, aperture size, random etc...(I'm not super technical with cameras so I can't say the exact specifics) So really, I mean, it's a least semi believable that a fire fight could potentially be grainy their others given certain conditions and I'm pretty sure anyone knowledgeable enough could increase or decrease the conditions to get this; so to while maybe not a 100% natural effect, it could be pretty believable.

But back to the death/damage stuff, yeah that would be pure direction for any film and wouldn't occur naturally, but that's direction, art, etc.. The specific look of it for K&L2 follows their art direction and I'm sure other games with similar directions do the same; so I'm not really sure what's the conflict here.

From what I saw of K&L2 everything about the camera felt good, natural and believable, a little heavy and intentional during extreme moments, but nothing out of sorts of what a good cinematographer could do with maybe a little post.

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The way the characters move around feels really strange to me. In fact, it feels the same as every other Io Interactive game I've tried, going all the way back to the first Hitman.

It's like the people have no body mass at all and just sorta float and twitch around the place. I'm not describing it well, but it sucks.

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In the spirit of Christmas I started playing Kane & Lynch 2 today and it's fantastic.

Fantastic the way it is exactly as flawed as the first game. Once again there's moderately OK to crappy shooting mechanics, stressful pacing and illegible chaos. Shooting down tons of nondescript dudes and getting shot yourself. It's a comedy, as in, it's pretty funny how I keep playing these bad games because I love the characters so much. Kane & Lynch are still so good to me, though I wouldn't know why. I guess I just like how everything they touch turns to shit.

The digital artifacting is pretty neat, though the game is also downright ugly. Blurry, in a way that I don't know was intentional. And then there's suddenly an animation of Lynch gulping down noodles with chopsticks that just nails it. This game is all over the place and I'm already super happy I paid ten euros for it a year and a half ago.

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I finished Dog Days. I can't believe how vexingly just, you know, it's not even crappy, but it totally is. GAH! I would absolutely spray-kill a whole street of Chinese cops to get a Kane & Lynch adventure where "spray-kill" wasn't the only damn verb I have to interact with the world.

IO built a magnificently, ugly, filthy location for all the shooting to take place in and I was more than once impressed, not so much with the visual splendor, but with the scale of areas. Huge airport hangars that you just run through to get to some other place. I love that. It makes the world seem realistic and big. That's what an airport hangar should feel like! A non-humanly big space!

So, that's two for two. Another K&L game that isn't that great, but damn if those dudes aren't fantastic. Gimme an adventure! I want to roleplay like 'em, talk to people, just exist in this world without it immediately devolving into turret sequences and massive shootouts. There's a point, really quickly, where you just get bored with another batch of enemies popping out of a monster closet. The funny thing is, that exasperation is shared by the characters. Near the end, every time a new army stands in your way, Lynch will sigh increasingly louder. "Oh shit, not again... It never ends... Kane! I'm getting so tired of this fucking shit!" You and me both, buddy.

So, 9/10, is what I'm saying.

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I loved K&L1 when I played it, right around the release of K&L2. Got so stoked to play 2 immediately after, went straight into it, and couldn't stand it. Worth trying again? Did I just burn myself out trying to marathon the two games together?

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The funny thing is, that exasperation is shared by the characters. Near the end, every time a new army stands in your way, Lynch will sigh increasingly louder. "Oh shit, not again... It never ends... Kane! I'm getting so tired of this fucking shit!" You and me both, buddy.

Ha, I have the same reaction with the Uncharted series. Drake goes "Shit, not these guys again!" and I'm like "yup".

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I also, sort of enjoyed Kane & Lynch 2, I think it lost a lot of what made the first game compelling (there is a moment in 2 player splitscreen that is absolutely brilliant) as in the characters were really interesting in the first one and less so in Dog Days. But damn if the moment to moment isn`t really good and the situations are gruesome.

I had no problem with the mechanics as they were tightened up so much after the first game that I forgave it, and making the multiplayer option possible to fill with bots was a hell of a lot of fun.

So yeah, it is massively flawed but I enjoyed myself a lot despite being depressed by the outcome and the ``ìs that it?` ending. At least it had no utterly pointless, annoying missions in Cuba though.

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Venezuela was horrendous, K&L1 really took a turn for the worse there.

Surprisingly, the mechanics aren't the only thing that they tightened up. It's like IO scaled back everything about the game. Gone is the broad scope of locations and situations: K&L1 had bank heist, prison breaks, diner dashes, executive office rappeling, and then of course the ill-conceived South America bits. And the crazy ambitious but ultimately disappointing dance club level! K&L2 is just running around back alleys and buildings in Shanghai. So too for the gameplay: diversity has been cut in favor of pure shootouts. You have to admire how they made it leaner, there's definitely an artistic vision in play.

You know, I would so love a K&L game that plays like Heavy Rain meets Hitman meets Mass Effect. Explore those dudes. Right now there's such a disconnect between the fiction of the game and what happens on screen.

The fiction: K&L are dead-beat, washed-up gangsters. Losers who can't get a break and make mistakes all the time.

What actually happens: They murder 700+ people (the game keeps track) in China and get away with it.

Miffy: K&L1 definitely burns you out on the whole thing by the end. Maybe you should try part 2 again and see how it fits you. It's short enough, just three sessions should see you through, and as added incentive you get to see both naked.

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and as added incentive you get to see both naked.

Wooo, nudity! How naked are we talking here? Full frontal or just a butt shot? Details are important... you know, for science.

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Hey I don't care about looks, I'm all about personality!

Jeremy, that's a tricky question. You definitely see stuff dangling, but it's blocked off. Butts galore though.

I also forgot that K&L2 doesn't have boss encounters. Though, remembering the infamous bulldozer fight in K&L1, maybe that's for the best. I think it took me twenty times to down that one.

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