BioShock Infinite

[darthbator]

I may be going out on a limb here but wasn't one Mr. Steve Gaynor a designer on infinite at that time? I remember hearing him talk about how they found the telekenesis was one of the least used powers in the initial games and how he was let down cause it was one of his favorites. I wonder if some of the prominence of the tk stuff in the older demo was his design influence which diminished after he left the team? TK isn't even in the game anymore! That sounds like a more conventional end to a less used power in the previous games. 

[osmosisch]

TK as applied to NPCs basically got folded into the other powers, and Columbia has a lot fewer environmental stuff lying around. It makes sense considering the amount of sheer drops.

[Dosed]

Oh I love watching stuff like that trailer. It's fascinating to me to see how things go from conception and come to fruition. I'm super glad they changed it from balloons and they changed Booker's voice too. 

[melmer]

Bookers practically a Jedi in that video

Telekenesis always feels more like a tool than a weapon to weapon, unless you've got ravenholms circular saw blades scattered all over the place I never really think to use it, dead space 3 really tries to push it as a weapon towards the end of the game. But if I'm not being forced or told to use it my mind doesn't think to use it.

Perhaps they'll make use of TK in the DLC?

[darthbator]

Was that Nolan North?

 

nope

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troy_Baker

 

huh... He was certainly doing a good Nolan North impression....

 

I wonder if he was Booker and Comstock?

[melmer]

I think that would've just been a place holder voice and the proper voice talent came on later when the majority of the script was written

[Dosed]

 

Troy Baker was in a band called Tripp Fontaine... coincidence? I think not.

 

 

Oh and to answer your question darth

According to the Bioshock wikia Comstock is voiced by Kiff VandenHeuvel. Do you think they changed Booker's voice actor entirely from when that 2010 trailer was released? As in did they just used a place holder actor?

[melmer]

Now that the game is finally out, I wonder how the frat boys liked it?

It's funny I was looking at the amazon reviews for it today, see what average joe public thinks of it, and came up with some stuff that never even crossed my mind like weapons not changing appearance when upgraded and NO BIG DADDY'S:

3/5

I really loved Bioshock 1 and loved everything about it. The graphics, the atmosphere, the characters and of course Rapture.

I was really disappointed with this game but will show you my pros and cons so it doesn't make it a boring review.

Pros

Another Bioshock Game

Some nice graphics in places (Church and candles)

The Skylines are something different and quite fun to travel on

In depth story for hardcore fans

Cons

Jerky frame rate that hiccups often

Blury textures and over saturated colours

No Atmosphere (unlike BS1)

Boring main characters (except Liz)

No big daddies

Too complex story (especially ending) why?

Weapons are boring and don't look different when upgraded

Picking up coins and health a chore

Liz keeps passing coins.. Annoying !!

No map and pressing d-pad to find out where to go is a pain

Too many cloned (look alike) people

I really was disappointed and cannot see what all the hype is about this game? I think Bioshock 1 was FAR better and wont be selling that one !!

(This guys handle is probably BigDaddyFan37)

[melmer]

Im thinking placeholder as I remember Irrational kinda made a big deal when they cast booker and Liz

http://irrationalgames.com/insider/full-voice-cast-for-bioshock-infinite-revealed/

Edit that article is relatively new try this one

http://irrationalgames.com/insider/behind-booker-and-liz/

[soggybagel]

I think you're being elitist and sound kind of like an asshole. I really hate how reductive video game enthusiasts get sometimes. I play a lot of first person shooters. I loved Modern Warfare 2 and every year I usually buy at least one of the three sports series either NHL, FIFA, or Madden. Am I some frat boy because of that? And why does frat boy joe public's opinion matter less.

 

I think its actually sometimes very refreshing to take their opinions because its very easy for a fan of anything to operate in a very tight vacuum. If someone wasn't following the development of the game or really reading up on what this new game was offering, I think its perfectly reasonable to wonder why there weren't Big Daddy's in this game. It's called Bioshock. Bioshock 1 and 2 had them. It could be confusing.

 

I'm not trying to shit on you here, but I think sometimes people need to reappraise their views on the game industry at large. It's a big billion dollar business and lots of people play games. It's pointless in my view to denigrate people who for some reason you might think don't fit the mold or aren't "proper" gamers. It should be inclusive. 

[darthbator]

I'm pretty sure that the entire "frat boy" comment is based on a comment Ken Levine made about the box art when it was announced (http://kotaku.com/5966896/bioshock-infinites-box-art-is-for-frat-guys-or-people-who-arent-informed). 

[Argobot]

Good gone brain motors. I buy this. But it also demonstrates a strange rift in Irrational's thinking through the 'problem' of game narratives.

 

Irrational tends to immolate the very motions of playing through a video game by setting you up, formerly, as the duped fool (BioShock 1) and now as an infinity of infinitely looping assholes who can only do wrong (Infinite). Irrational's answer, in two separate degrees, seems to be killing off their entire video game. This self-defeating situation faced the first game when, after realising that you didn't have any agency in the first place, it meant drudging on for a few more hours in a typically directionless shooter. Now, in Infinite, it compresses a similar problem down to a non-game where you're essentially told that video gaming in video games is a problem where erasure is the only solution. Infinite's entire narrative project is achieved by no longer being a game, by turning games off, by erasing all your actions. Weird. This meta, self-reflexive turn has twice cornered Irrational.The problem, especially in Infinite, seems to be in jumping the gun in openly thinking through the problem of game narratives without opening them up to new possibility - Ken Levine, uber video game nihilist. Infinite makes a beeline for a grand meta-narrative endpoint while at once raising and completely abandoning opportunities like any other game out there: What the hell is Colombia? Why is it there? What secrets does it hold? What's the race angle? What's the political angle? At least the first game had depth archaeology fleshing out such possibilities. Games are good at being tactile repositories of a past or, more simply, offering information rich spaces. We haven't even begun to explore the true potential of this materiality. Why not arrive in a dead city and tear back to when it was alive? Anyway, now I'm fanfic'ing. Good thoughts.

Good day.

 

I agree completely with your interpretation of the ending.

 

Having now seen the ending for myself, I really don't want to believe that the whole point of the game was to amaze everyone with a complicated multiverse plot. The game is trying to say something about shooters in general, and more specifically about the Bioshock franchise. For me, that aspect of the game is much more interesting than the convoluted sci-fi element.

 

I'm disappointed that the political/racial angle of the game is completely thrown out by the end. I understand that the first Bioshock game did the same with its Objectivist plot, but it seems even worse to set up a universe that is so similar to one who live in now--maybe not quite as blatant as the world of Columbia, but there are still undeniable parallels--and then fail to say anything meaningful about it. What's the point of even including these elements if they are ultimately irrelevant?

[Squid Division]

Because it's Ken Levine, I just interpreted the ending as

 

 

the shooter genre, and more specifically Bioshock as a franchise being a terrible self perpetuating existence.  That the industry and Irrational are stuck making the same bullshit over and over with '(constants and) variables' being the only distinguishing factors.  The way to solve this then is to go back to the source, scrap it, and start over.

 

I had a theory on how the political situations fit into it, but I forgot what it was, so...

 

[Argobot]

Because it's Ken Levine, I just interpreted the ending as

 

 

the shooter genre, and more specifically Bioshock as a franchise being a terrible self perpetuating existence.  That the industry and Irrational are stuck making the same bullshit over and over with '(constants and) variables' being the only distinguishing factors.  The way to solve this then is to go back to the source, scrap it, and start over.

 

I had a theory on how the political situations fit into it, but I forgot what it was, so...

 

 Spoiler to your spoiler:

 

That's why I'm glad they decided to include Rapture in the ending. My first reaction to having Booker and Elizabeth end up in Rapture was disappointment--I was disappointed that Irrational decided to make the leap from having Infinite act as a spiritual sequel to Bioshock 1 to having the connection between the two become explicit in the narrative. But if Infinite is supposed serve as a critique of 'how-we-make-games,' then including Rapture is a really devastating critique on fan expectations and the industry as a whole.

 

Bioshock 1 is the reason why Bioshock Infinite is even allowed to exist; its the albatross around Irrational's neck.

 

Edit: On Elizabeth

 

I'm still not sure where I stand on her as a character, especially now that I know she's your daughter. Prior to playing the game, I just assumed she would act as your love interest--and maybe that says something about what my expectations of games are--but then it turns out the connection your meant to have with her is purely familial. Which is fine, but then why does the game not only sexualize her in the second half, but choose to sexualize her by putting her in the exact same outfit as her mother--who, surprise, turns out to be your (Booker's) wife? Are you supposed to be feel uncomfortable about the (assumed) attraction that Booker would have to Elizabeth, now that you know she's your daughter?

 

I suppose the argument could be made that Elizabeth's powers are tied to her sexual maturation. One review I saw pointed out how Elizabeth's powers have a real surge after her first menstruation, and I think that can be extended further in the scene where Elizabeth stabs Daisy Fitzroy and then immediately after her appearance becomes much more sexually mature (this is when she puts on the Lady Comstock outfit). The connection between loss of innocence/sexuality/violence is an interesting one, I'm not entirely sold on if it was worthwhile or not, but at least it seems like Elizabeth's appearance is supposed to serve a larger purpose beyond eye candy.

[TurboPubx-16]

@Argobot re: Menarche

 

It was totally worthwhile! I think we sometimes forget in these discussions that we are talking about a video game, and one put out by a big publisher . This is the medium where even AI's with female voices all eventually become blue pornstars, after all. I don't think I've read four science fiction novels that have the depth of the "innocence/sexuality/violence" connection you talk about, let alone anything I could play on a video game console (I'd replace that last one with blood to be a bit more on the nose).

 

Re: Ending

 

Keep in mind Levine is a huge fanboy of things like silver age superhero comics. Returning to Rapture is the sort of fan service that that the middle school kid in him is in love with. For myself, it felt like Levine put his hand on my shoulder and said, "You're home."

 

Re: Violence 

 

I feel like the only reasonable expectation was, "I will murder hundreds of people in this game." Since the first Bioshock indie games have exploded and I've gotten over my disappointment that Irrational's big budget games are going to include shooting many people in the face. It helps that I happen to love the combat in this game more than any shooter in long while.

[darthbator]

Speaking of race

 

Did anyone try throwing the ball at the couple yet? I was just assuming the same sequence played out

 

Are we all at least in agreement that the art direction in this thing is brain melting incredible? There is so much aggressive detail packed into everything it's absolutely absurd. 

[Dosed]

Speaking of race

 

Did anyone try throwing the ball at the couple yet? I was just assuming the same sequence played out

 

Are we all at least in agreement that the art direction in this thing is brain melting incredible? There is so much aggressive detail packed into everything it's absolutely absurd. 

I'd love to see a Walking Dead style "99% of the players threw the ball at the MC". I really want to know how many people initially threw the ball at the couple on their first play through. Everyone I've spoken to both IRL and online threw the ball at the MC.

 

I think one of my favourite things about this game as a whole was just the idea that Comstock has essentially built this city as a statue in service of his ego. The parts where you wander through the (mildest of spoilers)

Wounded Knee and Boxer Rebellion

renactments were just beautifully put together, along with the Lady Comstock memorial areas. 

[osmosisch]

Are we all at least in agreement that the art direction in this thing is brain melting incredible? There is so much aggressive detail packed into everything it's absolutely absurd. 

I don't think anyone could disagree with that.

 

http://dubiousquality.blogspot.nl/2013/03/bioshock-infinite-impressions.html'>Bill Harris said it best, really.

[Sno]

One of my favorite things about Infinite thus far has been:

Playing through the game a second time and finding the threads of truth in all of Comstock's sermons. I feel like the themes of the game have started to crystallize with more clarity, while Comstock, a character i felt like i had no connection to in my first playthrough, suddenly kind of revealed himself. In particular, this one ended up being a surprise because of the realization that it's Comstock talking about his experiences at Wounded Knee when he was still the same Booker as the player, and that this is likely the thing he was seeking atonement for in the baptism.

I feel like the end of the game is Booker finally coming to accept responsibility for the things he's done, while Comstock is a character that fundamentally rejected his personal responsibility, claiming divine inspiration for his selfish actions.

Everyone should watch the 2010 10min demo again once they finished the game it's fascinating, there's telekinesis and all sorts going on

Gah! I already posted that only a page prior! I also posted the 2011 demo which is quite fascinating.

[melmer]

ha, i remember seeing your post but it was before i finished the game. forgot about it. then my brain tricked me in to thinking it was an original thought

[melmer]

look at that verticality its unreal, i never fully appreciated these gameplay demos until now

 

 

i hope we're treated to something like this in the DLC. I've heard one will reveal more about the songbird, hopefully that means you'll play as the man who gets turned into songbird. Make him a fearless daredevil, the first man to ride the sky lines, fighting crime, Columbias own superhero! Who gets duped and mortally injured by the villainous Fink and transformed into Songbird.

 

Or don't set it in Columbia at all...

Fight for 1980's New York!

[mjukis]

The whole you're a ghost-zombie thing is basically an outgrowth of the would you kindly bit in bio 1 right? Bookers vocabulary of "put bullet in mans" is rationalized by the fact that he is quantum mechanically confused about his death? He is insane because he needs to be for the mechanics to work? Am I making sense?

 

And yes, the Bio 1 bit at the end totally feels like it's throwing the fans of the first game a bone more than anything else.

[melmer]

Yeah that's the one thing that confuses me still, what are Bookers memories?

When he's moved into the Comstock dimension his brain would create new memories about how he got in to that boat and that Columbia exists (even though he's says he's never heard of it)

 

But surely he should remember everything else? Giving away Anna. In fact he does remember as he tells Liz about his daughter. Couldn't that man put 2 and 2 together when liz starts opening tears.... hmm where have i seen this before? Its kind of reminiscent of when I GAVE AWAY MY CHILD AND CARVED HER INITIALS INTO ME HAND

 

I guess Booker is just a dullard

 

People have also suggested that lady Comstock would have been with Booker from before the baptism, because she's a bit of a tramp according to the voxaphones and the sort a dunken gambler would rub shoulders with. So the Alternate 'Booker' reality of lady Comstock is the actual mother of Elizabeth, they do look alike, and if this is the case when Booker sees the hundreds of portraits and stands over her preserved body why doesn't he say 'HOLY SHIT THATS MY DEAD WIFE'

[Argobot]

The whole you're a ghost-zombie thing is basically an outgrowth of the would you kindly bit in bio 1 right? Bookers vocabulary of "put bullet in mans" is rationalized by the fact that he is quantum mechanically confused about his death? He is insane because he needs to be for the mechanics to work? Am I making sense?

 

And yes, the Bio 1 bit at the end totally feels like it's throwing the fans of the first game a bone more than anything else.

 

I really hope that the Bioshock 1 callback at the end means more than just fan service. If the whole point of the ending is that you have to go back to the beginning in order to erase everything that comes later (Booker drowning in order to ever prevent Comstock from existing; the player returning to the first game that is directly responsible for Bioshock Infinite existence), then it makes thematic sense to go back to Bioshock 1.

 

But if I'm just grasping at straws here and the purpose of sending you to Rapture at the end was little more than 'hey remember the first game, you liked the first game,' it kind of diminishes the ending for me. Especially with Booker's clunker of a line about "a city under the water, what a stupid idea."

[melmer]

some pretty concept art

http://kotaku.com/the-beautiful-concept-art-of-bioshock-infinite-470777951

 

http://benlo0.blogspot.com.au/