Advice for teenagers interested in the game industry.

[DanJW]

A friend of my girl-friend is a career advisor for a school in Wales. Apparently many of her pupils have expressed an interest in being game testers or developers.

The grapevine being what it is, she asked me to fill them in on what those jobs are actually like. Probably not like they imagine. I'm having a chat with them on skype tomorrow.

Anyway, although I spent a few years in the industry I am not in it currently. Because of that and because I believe in getting balanced and varied views on this type of thing, and because despite all evidence I do not know everything, I am soliciting your good selves as well.

So if you work in the game industry, whether developer, publisher, third party or journalist (or other) what are your tips or snippets of advice or impressions, for BTEC National Diploma students?

Many thanks in advance.

[Sombre]

Very long hours, unrewarding and somewhat low paying work, and often forced to play the alpha of polly pocket adventures, the opening 500 times.

Not entirely sure what it'll be like in the UK actually, they'll have a much easier time in the US.

Also, I think this piece by Steve is pretty good

[elmuerte]

Get out while you can!

[pabosher]

Games Testing is not a good career option, by any stretch of the imagination. Forced to play a game you don't like, countless times, in countless different ways until the early hours of the morning.

Developing though? Goodness knows. Hard shit though, that.

[Patters]

QA/Testing is pretty horrible, but it has to be done, I'd imagine in early builds of the game it is similar to proof reading a book written by a 5 year old. If we didn't have testers we wouldn't get the balance we get in a lot of games.

[Murdoc]

Boy, I was hestitant to write anything here since my advice is find another career option, lol. Glad to see more people don't mind crushing the dreams of teenagers (I say this as a good thing).

I think the currentl business model of the gaming industry is so infant and volitile at the moment I honestly cannot recommend anyone working in it for more then a decade.

The workplace practices and laws that condone/support these practices haven't really been figured out to a high enough degree to benefit both employer and employee to a exceptional level. Many people can function in the different states of this industry, whether it be your typical grueling 120 hour work weeks or the malaise of larger companies of clocking in your 9-5; but for someone like me and a good number of other people it's pretty unexceptable.

It may have something to do with a naive expectation or just a certain standard for quality of life, but I dont' like working 80-120 hours a week for months on someone elses project or working very little, getting no ownership over what I work on for 40 hours a week. Not all places are the same and there could be middle grounds out there somewhere, but they are few and I'll have to call them atypical.

It seems we are following various other business practices as a model, but our product seems to be so much different then theres. I'm a game "artist" and it seems like this side of the industry can be easily compared to the VFX industry where we work long hours trying to make good looking cg. But with games there are so many other complications and other teams of programers, designers, etc... that effect the job and overal product.

Furthermore the government(at least Canada) doesn't recognize us seperately, so for some bizarre reason we got classified with I.T proffessionals which has the by product of condoning some really shoddy business practices; Not getting paid Over-time.

The industry argues that if it had to pay OT that they couldn't make products, but anyone who has been through at least one regular production can tell you that is garbage; most of the OT I've had to do is due to a poor business model and production schedule. It has nothing to do with getting a higher quality game or on schedule product if it had a proper way of organization and creating it in the first place.

Anyway, back on track, yeah, if they like games I'd stay out of the gaming industry. It's not about not being worth the money or working a lot; because if you love what you do, why would you care about working all the time?

It really comes down to the industry not being like what they think it is. I taught for two years and the average student had no idea what they were getting into until they learned enough to be doing it every day; and even that was a simulated experience in school. So after they dumped all that money into something to find out what it's actually like they found out they didn't like it so ended up with a poor quality portfolio and either unemployment after leaving or a crummy job that makes them really hate it even more.

I think I've worked the full spectrum of types of places(maybe not super indy place, yet) where I had a work/home balance, one with a work work balance, and now with the peon in an ant colony 9-5 place. After all of which I'm coming off burnt out, which I heard is what happens around this time in a persons career.

I've seen some success and I don't really have anything to be down about to be fair and really have gotten close to getting my dreams jobs from time to time and with a little more work(end of the year, next year tops) I could probably achieve those. But at this point, I'm honestly just beaten and broken and couldn't give a shit, I'm close to leaving the industry and doing something else soon.

Oh, and yeah, QA is crap. Maybe after ten years they will become an Ass. producer and start moving up by taking out their frustration by being a complete douchebag, but it's really a 1:100 type situation.

[syntheticgerbil]

This thread is going to be a major bum out, I just know it.

I don't really have room to talk. Besides the fact that I went to a crappy diploma mill school and that I often have a lot of extreme self doubt in my abilities as an artist, I've been working as a concept artist and animator for three years at this tiny game company. I don't get paid as much as some of the people I went to school with, but it's been fun for the most part. I'm trying to leave now though for many reasons, which are unimportant to this thread.

My experience has mostly been positive. I've been stuck with the PC police for a lot of projects with characters being asked to look a certain way or being a certain ethnicity or age, therefore eventually making everything bland, but I also get to do a lot of cool things I never thought I'd be doing as my first "industry" job like storyboarding full sequences or getting paid to draw all day for weeks on end whether I'm coming up with awesome ideas or not. Sometimes I find myself enjoying being forced to draw in a style that's not my own or happily working away at things I never thought would be fun. I enjoy the challenge that comes with the variety of tasks.

The most major draw back is that my company makes research health games for multiple clients so these either never get seen or are unplayable messes of too much information conflicting with gameplay. The only reason some kids even play the games I've worked on seems to be because they are paid to do so. Also I sometimes have to work on illustrating crap for websites or architecture type things when my company has to do stuff other than games to stay afloat.

Sometimes I rack up some overtime for various projects and I have stayed overnight a few times, but about 85% of the time I've been here I've stayed within the 40 hour work week. I also am not under the scrutiny of all of the awful minimum wage jobs I had before college, thus allowing me to happily type away this message at work.

Part of the big picture problem is, I know I have a good setup here and I feel scared about getting a job at a real game company that makes games people ACTUALLY play compared to the phony one I work at because I know of all of the stories about copious amounts of unpaid overtime or the constant threat of being fired hanging over you. Maybe this isn't all places, but how can you know before you get hired?

I also get upset when certain artists or animators happily work 80 hour weeks in order to spite the others not staying as late and in turn move up. Some do it for the money or some do it because the reason they work at a certain studio is because they were a fan of said studio foremost. A lot of artists don't seem to value their personal or social time and are very career oriented, which is something that it seems the higher ups in the industry are all too ready to take advantage of in many cases.

What really sucks is, a guy who dropped out of art school early on is installing satellite dishes and making the same amount of money if not more than me. He only works 40 hours a week within four days and gets paid time and a half for any hour overtime (past 10 hours on a regular work day or past ever hour over a 40 hour work week). The more I work at my job, the less profitable it is, because of salary.

In truth I don't think I would really ever care that much about the projects at any company I would work at unless it were small or owned by people I want to do well or have a personal stake in. I would just prefer to get paid to draw/animate/or create all day, but not at a detriment to personal happiness or your own personal projects. I would definitely feel different if it were me and a group of artist friends trying to get a great product on the market, like The Behemoth or any small company people love. As this thread already seems to be indicating and the stories I hear from friends is, that kind of set up is all too rare, which is very unfortunate.

[Snooglebum]

I'm wondering, does anybody know what it's like on the soundtrack side of the business? I'd imagine that'd be less soul-crushing then, say, programming.

[Xeneth]

Speaking as someone writing an Excel checklist of all the redundant things that should be looked at on a website whenever the developers make a change to said website RIGHT NOW...

I'd say it's tedious and detail-oriented work. Low paying and thankless to be sure, but you're going to run into that in any lower-tier job in any industry. I'm sure the secretaries, interns, aides, and junior fill-in-the-blanks of the world can attest to how much it sucks to be at the bottom of a pyramid.

On the plus side, you can get QA work with almost no skills or education if you're relatively smart and reasonably good at communicating.

The weird part is that QA COULD be a stepping stone into something much better in the industry if you have other skills, but is quite likely to be a dead end if capitalizing on the above...

My advice is to work on what you REALLY want to do in relation to gaming, (art, design, programming, etc.) and either come at the industry from that angle or use QA as a way to maybe make some contacts and keep a roof over your head while targeting the above. Speaking from very personal experience, it's VERY difficult to work in QA (a traditionally long-hours role) while acquiring/polishing the skills that have more control over what a game becomes.

No one who knows what QA really does says they WANT to be a tester, but it's certainly a legitimate job that I have... Also, the competition for QA positions in the Bay Area is a bit fierce at the moment, as they tend to be the first dept. to get laid off when the economy does... things that it appears to be doing right now. No idea if the EU industry is affected.

[ajenteks]

I don't work in the industry, but I write about games for fun. The reality is, very few of us are lucky enough to get paid to do something we love, especially in a crappy economy. That said, I'd go with something like this:

If you really want to be involved in games production, volunteer to help out on a mod project or start one of your own. That way you get to work on your own terms and get a good feel for what kind of effort goes into producing content for games. If you're lucky enough you might discover some talent, or you can illustrate that hard work you do isn't squandered and actually results in a finished product. If you make it this far, you've got a portfolio to show off, teamwork experience, and can prove that you're a motivated self-starter, while attaining a more mundane education to serve as a Plan B.

[twmac]

I was going to read all oif the points that were made but I kind of started realising how much these would be the same. Seeing as I currently work where Dan used to work, I can safely say that Dan has an accurate assessment of the industry.

The negatives

- Just like every job no one really gives a shit about you, it just hurts more because you love video games

- Promotions are far and few between, it is most likely you will burn out or be burnt out by working there, again this is like any job the difference is that you might actually care

The positives

- With the right people you will gain a lot of valuable experience, even temping in the industry helps you understand the process

- You will meet like minded people. in the company I work at I have met a ton of long time friends. Sure we might not all do the same things but I still hang out with them because they are awesome

I advise against it for the one following reason:

- First foot forward, this is not a good idea, you should experience some of the shitty careers life can offer you before you go into QA

[Thompson]

My hopes and dreams.

Utterly obliterated.

[DanJW]

OK, thank you everyone. This pretty much confirms what I was going to tell them.

I'm not going to sugar coat it, but neither do I just want to tell them not to bother. I think I will focus on the proactive indie and mod scene as the best way to get creative ideas out there. Testing isn't the best bet for a career, but for a stop-gap it sure beats call-centres.

I'm linking up them in about an hour, so feel free to make any last minute additions now.

Thanks again folks.

[Lu]

I started out working on mods for other games and it wasn't until recently that I started working on my own projects. I'm having a lot of fun with it, though it's hard. I don't expect to make a lot of money on what I'm making now, but I'm also in a position where I don't really have to worry about any of that. I'm aware that that is certainly not the norm.

Making games from your bedroom, it can work out, but the vast majority of indies can't support themselves making just games. i.e. They need a job to support their game making habits.

You need an insane amount of passion to even be able to do the work. Making games is HARD, however it is certainly the most fulfilling job I can think of doing. Where a job doesn't really feel like a job and you get to exclaim "I get money doing this!? HAHA!"

I've never been a part of the grind, a conscious choice, which is maybe why I seem to be a little bit more positive.

I'm cutting it kind of close here.

[DanJW]

Well that seemed to go well. Got your post in time Piratepoo

I'm going to send them an email later with useful links and answers to follow-up questions. I'll include Steven's article, as well as general resources like gameindustry.biz and Gamasutra, plus some modding wikis and so forth. Also LinkedIn type places.

Any strong recommendations for links?

[ajenteks]

If anyone expressed interest in the journalism side of the industry:

http://www.freelancerspodcast.com/

[Murdoc]

Well that seemed to go well. Got your post in time Piratepoo

I'm going to send them an email later with useful links and answers to follow-up questions. I'll include Steven's article, as well as general resources like gameindustry.biz and Gamasutra, plus some modding wikis and so forth. Also LinkedIn type places.

Any strong recommendations for links?

This thread. Lol, in all seriousness, why not the idlethumbs podcast? I realize it's about commentary, but what the thumbs desire out of games and the discussions going on could be used as a start off point on learning the fire points of gaming and may help aspiring designers think about certains aspects differently.

[twmac]

My hopes and dreams.

Utterly obliterated.

Ah, don't let it get you down. To be honest I've seen some pretty egregious shit in my time at work but I still love doing the job. It is hard to say whether I am one of the lucky ones who got to progress in QA or whether that makes me unlucky but honestly, short of being a full blown writer/artist there is very little else I can imagine wanting to do at this stage in my life.

There are a lot of negatives but some of the people you will meet will hopefully lead to something better (if that is what you are after).

After working in an off-license, car park, countless factories, QA is a hell of a lot more interesting.

[elmuerte]

My hopes and dreams.

Utterly obliterated.

Good, because hope and dreams have nothing to do with it.

It's dedication and commitment.

ps, if you're not depressed enough, read this months' Game Developer Magazine, it has a very depressing article with crunch time stories

[Forbin]

On a "grass is always greener" note:

I've spent years in the traditional computer engineering world and would give my left nut to work on games. Every time someone bitches about the hardships of game development they run off a list of things I have had to do in the financial sector. But at the end of the 12-hour day, all I have to show for my work is that I made some rich people even richer by making some poor employees redundant.

Sure it sucks working the weekend, and it sucks not having stability at your job. But this isn't just par for the games industry, it's par for the industry as a whole. And when you're working at a company that does not put out a technological product, it's more likely you're working for idiots with no concept of what you do or vision of what they want.

There are only 3 paths for the traditional programmer in the financial and tech world. You can either stew away at an unappreciated essential role that involves maintaining applications only you know how (or why) they function; you can be promoted up to manage said projects into a role completely unrelated to your years of training and expertise. Or finally you can become a contract worker and rob everyone blind while you get paid for your overtime and are compensated for the unstable job opportunity with high hourly rates.

At least after your crunch periods you have something positive to show the world. The last project I worked on for my last employer was a tax engine that would let the richest companies in the world find loopholes in state tax laws and save them billions of dollars on insurance.

[syntheticgerbil]

At least after your crunch periods you have something positive to show the world. The last project I worked on for my last employer was a tax engine that would let the richest companies in the world find loopholes in state tax laws and save them billions of dollars on insurance.

You are missing the point. People should get compensated for their extra work and overtime, no matter what profession. If you are dissatisfied with you job or the fat cats you are making fatter, games are not the only better alternative, and besides I'm sure many working at the big game mills feel exactly the same as you (considering they aren't a fan of the company they work for).

[Forbin]

I'm not missing the point, I'm just saying that it's how things are all over as a software engineer. If someone is seriously considering getting into the games industry, so much that they're going into programming at school, then they should be prepared for the same problems everywhere else. In my opinion, keep your eye on the prize, and if you're going into development, focus on games. Otherwise you'll end up settling for an equally crappy job writing an accounting system.

[Snooglebum]

I'm wondering, does anybody know what it's like on the soundtrack side of the business? I'd imagine that'd be less soul-crushing then, say, programming.

...anyone?

[Nachimir]

I know very little about working in sound for games, but I am acquainted with a couple of sound engineers in the industry.

Sound is often ignored and neglected, particularly when it comes to budgeting and conference programmes (GDC being the rare exception), yet it really makes a massive difference to a game. Sound work needs all the advocates it can get.

From what I've heard, working on sound for games is a fairly interesting job if you like messing around with that sort of thing. However, they're not common jobs, and you'll be looking to big developers before you even get to ones that have their own studios. Smaller developers will outsource production or just buy effects.

[toblix]

Jesus, Forbin, you have the most bleak outlook. Are you really saying that a job developing software will always suck?