Erkki

iPad

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Computer Nerd Alert!

Nah, I just like opening up and taking apart things, computers and arcade sticks are just two recent examples.

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I get your drift, but again, the point was less about the resolution and more about the ability to stream video sufficiently. Hell, I can't even use YouTube comfortably on my netbook.

Have you tried flash beta? (10.1) It actually takes advantage of GPU when streaming h264 flash video, so even my aging 600mhz netbook can comfortably stream youtube videos. (or any flash video sites for that matter, something ipad can't do without a separate application for specific site)

if browsing web is slow on your netbook (shouldn't be, 1000he has good hardware), I'd recommend getting a fast browser like opera or chrome and turn off flash.

If it's too slow for multi-tasking, you could simply upgrade ram. Alternatively there are better netbooks out there with dual-core processors and faster gpus that are cheaper than ipad.

I can understand wanting an ipad because of its looks, exclusive apps, and being able to show it off.... but because it can do things better than a netbook? no way.

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Nah, I just like opening up and taking apart things, computers and arcade sticks are just two recent examples.

My former statement stands.:grin:

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Have you tried flash beta? (10.1) It actually takes advantage of GPU when streaming h264 flash video, so even my aging 600mhz netbook can comfortably stream youtube videos. (or any flash video sites for that matter, something ipad can't do without a separate application for specific site)

if browsing web is slow on your netbook (shouldn't be, 1000he has good hardware), I'd recommend getting a fast browser like opera or chrome and turn off flash.

If it's too slow for multi-tasking, you could simply upgrade ram. Alternatively there are better netbooks out there with dual-core processors and faster gpus that are cheaper than ipad.

I can understand wanting an ipad because of its looks, exclusive apps, and being able to show it off.... but because it can do things better than a netbook? no way.

I haven't tried the Flash beta, but you're wrong about the implementation of Flash on the iPad because it simply doesn't use Flash. It uses HTML5. Furthermore, I also use Chrome and upgraded my RAM to 2GB.

Despite all of these things, the processor, gpu, and screen resolution result in a subpar experience. You can quote your own success as much as you care to, I simply haven't experienced a similar level of performance. And honestly, I've complained about things like this before and have gotten responses like yours as well as more drastic ones suggesting I try installing Ubuntu Netbook remix and such. I don't want to work that hard to get an acceptable experience.

The simple fact of the matter is that netbooks are designed to be cheap and easy to sell, not for the sake of being powerful, effective machines. I've had it suggested to me that I should just buy a more current netbook with Tegra and a dual-core Atom processor, but however you slice it, a netbook is still what it is - an underpowered machine that just scrapes by.

Finally, I'm curious as to whether or not you've actually used an iPad for any length of time, because I find it interesting that you're so certain that internet browsing and such is in "no way" better than on a netbook.

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For what it's worth, you only quoted half of what I'd agree is a pretty well written review by David Pogue, the quoted half specifically targeted toward the vitriolic techies who want to find anything they can as reason to hate the iPad. The second half of the review is posed to the typical consumer who doesn't have a modern laptop and smartphone and may not be used to a wide variety of apps and such.

Um, that's not true. The first half of the review was not written for people looking for reason to hate the iPad (in the same way the second half wasn't deliberately written for people looking for reasons to love it), it was written for techies, period.

The "non-techie" review is here:

The Apple iPad is basically a gigantic iPod Touch.

The simple act of making the multitouch screen bigger changes the whole experience. Maps become real maps, like the paper ones. Scrabble shows the whole board, without your having to zoom in and out. You see your e-mail inbox and the open message simultaneously. Driving simulators fill more of your field of view, closer to a windshield than a keyhole.

The new iBooks e-reader app is filled with endearing grace notes. For example, when you turn a page, the animated page edge actually follows your finger’s position and speed as it curls, just like a paper page. Font, size and brightness controls appear when you tap. Tap a word to get a dictionary definition, bookmark your spot or look it up on Google or Wikipedia. There’s even a rotation-lock switch on the edge of the iPad so you can read in bed on your side without fear that the image will rotate.

If you have the cellular model, you can buy AT&T service so you can get online anywhere. (Cellular iPads aren’t available until next month; I tested a Wi-Fi-only model.)

But how’s this for a rare deal from a cell company: there’s no contract. By tapping a button in Settings, you can order up a month of unlimited cellular Internet service for $30. Or pay $15 for 250 megabytes of Internet data; when it runs out, you can either buy another 250 megs, or just upgrade to the unlimited plan for the month. Either way, you can cancel and rejoin as often as you want — just March, July and November, for example — without penalty. The other carriers are probably cursing AT&T’s name for setting this precedent.

The iPad’s killer app, though, is killer apps. Apple says that 150,000 existing iPhone apps run on the iPad. They either appear actual size — small and dead center on the screen — or, with a tap, doubled to fill the screen, a little blurry. Still, all the greats work this way: Dragon Dictation, Skype (even voice calls, through its speaker and microphone) and those gazillion games.

But the real fun begins when you try the apps that were specially designed for the iPad’s bigger screen. (When the iPad section of the App Store opens Saturday, it will start with 1,000 of them.)

That Scrabble app shows the whole board without your zooming or panning: a free companion app for your iPhone or Touch is called Tile Rack; it lets you fiddle with your letters in private, then flick them wirelessly onto the iPad’s screen. Newspaper apps will reproduce the layout, photos and colors of a real newspaper. The Marvel comic-book app is brilliant in its vividness and panel-by-panel navigation. (Oops, maybe that app belongs in the review for techies.)

Hulu.com, the Web’s headquarters for free hit TV shows, won’t confirm the rumors that it’s working on an iPad app, but wow — can you imagine? A thin, flat, cordless, bottomless source of free, great TV shows, in your bag or on the bedside table?

Speaking of video: Apple asserts that the iPad runs 10 hours on a charge of its nonremovable battery — but we all know you can’t trust the manufacturer. And sure enough, in my own test, the iPad played movies continuously from 7:30 a.m. to 7:53 p.m. — more than 12 hours. That’s four times as long as a typical laptop or portable DVD player.

The iPad is so fast and light, the multitouch screen so bright and responsive, the software so easy to navigate, that it really does qualify as a new category of gadget. Some have suggested that it might make a good goof-proof computer for technophobes, the aged and the young; they’re absolutely right.

And the techies are right about another thing: the iPad is not a laptop. It’s not nearly as good for creating stuff. On the other hand, it’s infinitely more convenient for consuming it — books, music, video, photos, Web, e-mail and so on. For most people, manipulating these digital materials directly by touching them is a completely new experience — and a deeply satisfying one.

The bottom line is that the iPad has been designed and built by a bunch of perfectionists. If you like the concept, you’ll love the machine.

The only question is: Do you like the concept?

But seeing as I'm pretty sure we're all techies here, I ignored the review written for people who need a "goof-proof computer".

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Let me rephrase, then. The first part was written for techies, but is sure to be the only one quoted by vitriolic techies who want to find reasons to hate the iPad. The truth of the matter (and what I think the review as a whole tries to get at) is succinctly stated here:

The bottom line is that the iPad has been designed and built by a bunch of perfectionists. If you like the concept, you’ll love the machine.

I read this as:

If you want a computer, this isn't the device for you. The first part of the review was for those of you who want a computer, the second half was for those of you who want to try something new.

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JonCole: Sorry, I think you misunderstood me about ipad and flash - I never meant to imply that ipad supports flash. what I was trying to say is that if you want to watch video content on flash-heavy sites, then you have to get separate app published by those sites specifically for streaming video to ipad. hulu app, for example.

Anyway, what you suspect is correct - i never touched or even seen ipad in real life. I'm just making blind assumptions based on what little specs apple disclosed. I know it's running on single-core cortex a8 that's "customized" to 1ghz. Plus it only has 256mb of ram. For comparison, arm's later model cortex a9, dual-core, and clocked at 2ghz can barely beat the processor in your netbook, n270. Unless mobile safari is pulling the same speed tricks that mobile opera is pulling with its Turbo feature (it's not), your netbook should be able to crush the ipad on browsing front easily, despite the heavy OS overhead. The only outside equation here is of course the omission of flash on ipad.

BUT i've been wrong about stuff like this before. I have a tendency to grossly underestimate the ingenuity of apple engineers. I'd be curious to see how you find the browsing experience on your ipad. Please tell us when/if you get it.

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I think what's making people so unsure about this device, and what makes people argue so about it on the Internet, is that Apple is trying something completely new. Instead of trying to reach the pinnacle of an existing market (like the Smartphone, notebook or netbook markets), they are making a new market, trying to create a new consumer need that wasn't there before. People are calling it an overgrown iPod, a gimped netbook, an advanced Kindle, but it is all of these things, yet it is none of them.

So this is what's causing the confusion, people are not sure what they should do with this device, or why they should want it. So I guess the only thing to do is to look at your own situation, and find out if the features it provide are something you need. if not, don't get it. My twitter feed has been pretty much all positive, but guess what? Those are the people who already knew that they wanted one.

The only thing so far that has piqued my interest is Sam & Max, but that is still not enough to make the device buy-worthy for me. So I wont get it, but I wont make a fuzz about it. It is simply a piece of electronic, that I see no need for buying, but maybe others do.

I know I'm sounding kinda generic, but those are my thoughts. ^^

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I'm afraid I've only skimmed this thread (I'm busy cleaning my house atm), but as I picked up an iPad yesterday, I figure I should chime in.

The iPad is very freaking cool, but it's difficult to explain why. It's one of those things you need to touch to understand. The whole experience is incredibly slick, intuitive and just flat out fun. If you're looking for frustration-free portable computing, this is the device to pick up.

Comparisons to a netbook:

Yes, a netbook runs cheaper. Way cheaper. But before you go off and buy one, just pick up an iPad. Just pick it up, don't even use it. It'll *immediately* become apparent to you why it's more expensive. It's quality hardware. Every netbook I've used feels cheap.

Battery life is incredible. The 10+ hours rating seems accurate to me. I turned on my iPad at 1:30pm yesterday, did not charge it (it came 80% charged) and we used it until 3am this morning. Mostly gaming. Still had juice to spare.

The keyboard:

Surprisingly, it wasn't bad. If you've been "trained" on an iPhone, an iPad will be decent. My friends weren't quite as impressed. :) But if the iPad is anything like an iPhone, you'll be able to type fairly well on it in a week or two. I write blog posts on my iPhone! I'm going to buy Pages tonight, to give the iPad keyboard a workout. :)

As for a dissertation, not without a "real" keyboard you wont! :) But I'd argue that you wouldn't do too much better on those tiny netbook keyboards either. I think it would work though ... editing and reasonable amounts of writing on the go, and docking it to a keyboard when you're not travelling seems like a good idea.

The games:

Plants vs Zombies plays *very* nicely. :) We played some Tap Tap on this, and I was shocked at how much I liked it. I play real rhythm games, you know? :) Eliss upscaled from the iPhone looked great and played well, even better than it did on an iPhone!

I think we're going to see some amazing exclusive games for the iPad... I don't even get why people doubt this. Remember how excited we all got over the Microsoft Surface? Yeah, this is basically that, but affordable.

I really believe we'll see games that could only work on an iPad in the coming year. Games that rely on the large (multi-)touch screen for gameplay, and without using awful "virtual dpads." At the very least, I'll take a stab at doing just that. :)

(quick question: anyone tried Sam & Max yet? How does it play/look and hows performance?)

On the closed-ness:

I'm torn on this issue. You only need to look to Android to see what a completely unmanaged platform does. And frankly, Windows/Mac isn't that much better. Steam is a big deal, and Steam is essentially a closed AppStore. The consoles are far worse than the AppStore. In fact, as an Indie developer, I'd say the AppStore is the bes thing that has happened to us in years.

I really hope that at some point Apple allows side-loading of apps (as in, downloading apps from the net and installing them) while still maintaining a "sanitized" appstore.

Cheers,

Mo

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I think what's making people so unsure about this device, and what makes people argue so about it on the Internet, is that Apple is trying something completely new.

This is actually an excellent point. Infact, to drive the point further: anyone remember the initial reaction to the DS and Wii? Similar wasn't it?

Mo

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SiN: but but but... Steam is one of many outlets. Appstore is one of one. If Steam was the only store where I could get gaming fix from, I'd probably quit pc gaming. Anyway, the bigger issue is, HOW DID YOU GET ONE??? It's not out in Canada yet!

I really don't have much problem with ipad's what i perceive to be shortcomings. Yeah, I don't really need it because I already have a dozen pcs/laptops/netbooks or so, but it's pretty, simple, and has unique content that I want right now (sam & max s3!!). I genuinely think that this device could improve the quality of my life somewhat. I just wish that Apple wasn't the one to make it, because to be honest, I don't like them.

edit: removed unnecessary whining about apple that might derail the conversation off topic.

Edited by Jayel

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SiN: but but but... Steam is one of many outlets. Appstore is one of one. If Steam was the only store where I could get gaming fix from, I'd probably quit pc gaming.

Absolutely. What I'm saying, though, is that Windows without Steam would be a bit of a mess for digital distribution. If the iPhone didn't have the AppStore, apps wouldn't have gotten huge. So it's give and take. Like I said, I'd love to see side-loading happen on the iPhone/iPad, but i can understand why Apple did what they did.

Anyway, the bigger issue is, HOW DID YOU GET ONE??? It's not out in Canada yet!

Heh, no need to panic I have a reasonable explanation. I live in Seattle now, and am way too lazy to update my profile. :)

I just wish that Apple wasn't the one to make it, because to be honest, I don't like them.

edit: removed unnecessary whining about apple that might derail the conversation off topic.

Sorry, I managed to read your pre-edited stuff, and just have a few words to say about that.

Basically, every company is a little bit evil and a lot of good. Apple does care about developers, even if they have a funny way of showing it. After all, they started the 70/30 money split trend. Before that it was literally 30/70... how ridiculous is that?! And how amazing is the appstore model for distribution... I don't need to host my files or write my own registration code or online store code etc etc. I wrote a cellphone game in j2me (pre iPhone days) and it was seriously the most painful experience in my life! Apple changed the game for developers in an incredibly positive way.

Mo

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Basically, every company is a little bit evil and a lot of good.

Just want to step in and say: maybe you don't want to make this kind of generalization about "every company." That's kind of extreme, you know?

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Yep, this thread pretty much outlines my problems with it. Also I'll include something possibly preposterous, but can we get a friggin style with it? Decent stylus + functional photoshop = art dream.

MEAT STYLUS!

http://kottke.org/10/02/meat-stylus-for-the-iphone

http://deals.woot.com/deals/details/f89b1fea-fbd5-4414-88d2-04c954e04cc1/iphone-sausage-stylus-made-with-real-sausage#25

No, it's not as dirty as what you're thinking.

Edited by JTTalker

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This is actually an excellent point. Infact, to drive the point further: anyone remember the initial reaction to the DS and Wii? Similar wasn't it?

Um... no? At least not the people I spoke to. Everyone I spoke to disliked the name, but otherwise thought the Wii looked great. I've never heard a single bad thing about the DS, either.

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Um... no? At least not the people I spoke to. Everyone I spoke to disliked the name, but otherwise thought the Wii looked great. I've never heard a single bad thing about the DS, either.

I call bullshit. So many people thought the dual-screen concept of the DS was stupid, I remember plenty of forum threads all over the internet with people predicting the death of the DS before it even came out.

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Just want to step in and say: maybe you don't want to make this kind of generalization about "every company." That's kind of extreme, you know?

Yeah, probably. :) I guess I really meant tech companies. Apple, Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft, Google... they all, for the most part, do good things. They sometimes do stupid things, or things we don't agree with. But mostly, good things. I think we forget that too easily.

Um... no? At least not the people I spoke to. Everyone I spoke to disliked the name, but otherwise thought the Wii looked great. I've never heard a single bad thing about the DS, either.

I'm so glad you brought this up, because it speaks to how easily we forget.

The DS was ridiculed before launch. The gaming sites weren't even unbiased about it... gamespot in particular pretty much flat-out stated that the DS was awful and the PSP was going to be a smash success. Nobody was really sold on the dual-screen idea either. "Why is one touch and the other not", was a common complaint. And "the graphics are awful compared to the PSP". Even Nintendo themselves were insecure about the DS, remember the "three pillar approach" and the classic, "if you turn the DS on its side, it's like a widescreen console" in response to the PSP's beautiful screen.

For the Wii there was so much cynicism about it actually working, and about "real" games working on the Wii. There's a single quote I remember reading, but unfortunately, can't find right now. In an interview Miyamoto (or Iwata) was asked about cross compatibility... "How will the Wii survive if it's the only motion controlled console?" The response was, "We believe that the other consoles will catch up and have motion controls in the next few years. Ridiculed to hell and back! The number of angry internet posts was stunning. And, well, we know how that turned out.

It's really easy to say that "we knew it would be a hit from the start" because it's familiar now. Like, "how could anyone think the DS would fail?!" We'll feel the same way about the iPad in a couple of months.

Mo

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I think what's making people so unsure about this device, and what makes people argue so about it on the Internet, is that Apple is trying something completely new. Instead of trying to reach the pinnacle of an existing market (like the Smartphone, notebook or netbook markets), they are making a new market, trying to create a new consumer need that wasn't there before. People are calling it an overgrown iPod, a gimped netbook, an advanced Kindle, but it is all of these things, yet it is none of them.

So this is what's causing the confusion, people are not sure what they should do with this device, or why they should want it. So I guess the only thing to do is to look at your own situation, and find out if the features it provide are something you need. if not, don't get it. My twitter feed has been pretty much all positive, but guess what? Those are the people who already knew that they wanted one.

The only thing so far that has piqued my interest is Sam & Max, but that is still not enough to make the device buy-worthy for me. So I wont get it, but I wont make a fuzz about it. It is simply a piece of electronic, that I see no need for buying, but maybe others do.

I know I'm sounding kinda generic, but those are my thoughts. ^^

So its because its a totally new thing that is creating the confusion towards consumers because it's a new market?

That's quite possibly the best crazy statement that would come from marketing I ever heard; it's our fault that their product doesn't have any outstanding features that people would want from a device of that size, it's totally not the fact it just might be a redundant useless product.*

Oh and I mean if your twitter feed has been positive, I think that's a massive win for Apple right there. (Has anyone checked if Hermie is a bot or viral marketer yet?) :)

*I'm not saying it is a redundant useless product, but without any outstanding features or functions that has gripped consumers, it's certainly seeming that way right now. Dedicated software will probably make the thing shine in a year or two, then we'll know exactly what we need this thing for, if we do actually need it.

Not sure exactly what is going on there, but it scares me. But what I ment by decent stylus is one that supported pressure and tilt(I want it to draw with) so it'll be impossible to get that from a third party.

But just to be sure, I'll download a drawing app and go grab a slim jim to give it a shot.

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Heh, knew I was being too generic. <.<

So its because its a totally new thing that is creating the confusion towards consumers because it's a new market?

That's quite possibly the best crazy statement that would come from marketing I ever heard; it's our fault that their product doesn't have any outstanding features that people would want from a device of that size, it's totally not the fact it just might be a redundant useless product.*

*I'm not saying it is a redundant useless product, but without any outstanding features or functions that has gripped consumers, it's certainly seeming that way right now. Dedicated software will probably make the thing shine in a year or two, then we'll know exactly what we need this thing for, if we do actually need it.

I'm not trying to make excuses for it, I'm merely trying to analyze the reaction. :P

I didn't say it was "our fault" at all. If Apple is confusing us, that is clearly their fault, for not making the message strong enough. Of course, it's much easier to market something like "This is the best Smartphone!" than "This is the best device to have on your lap when you're on the sofa or maybe on the can or something!"

But like I said, I see nothing that interest me in it, and it seems you don't either. So that's two consumers lost for Apple, and I bet there's a lot of people thinking like us.

Oh and I mean if your twitter feed has been positive, I think that's a massive win for Apple right there.

It is, but again, those were all from day-one buyers, who knew they wanted one. I'm betting reception will be a lot more mixed the further we come from the launch.

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It is, but again, those were all from day-one buyers, who knew they wanted one. I'm betting reception will be a lot more mixed the further we come from the launch.

Late reception matters a whole lot less than early reception, to be honest. The technology culture has become increasingly dependent on the early-adopters who act as evangelists of products and cause mainstream success regardless of their "actual" value.

Case in point, the Palm Pre. To be honest, Palm has a pretty decent product out there as far as specs and the OS are concerned, but the hardcore reaction was largely negative due to some niggling facts that most people wouldn't be too concerned about. That's why Palm in in the hole and the iPhone is the big seller - the early adopters help earn the late adopters.

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Late reception matters a whole lot less than early reception, to be honest. The technology culture has become increasingly dependent on the early-adopters who act as evangelists of products and cause mainstream success regardless of their "actual" value.

Case in point, the Palm Pre. To be honest, Palm has a pretty decent product out there as far as specs and the OS are concerned, but the hardcore reaction was largely negative due to some niggling facts that most people wouldn't be too concerned about. That's why Palm in in the hole and the iPhone is the big seller - the early adopters help earn the late adopters.

Good point, Cole. And Apple knows to exploit this better than pretty much anyone. They know they have customers so loyal they will even buy the product AGAIN again when it comes out with a bigger featureset (like this time around, with the wifi/3G split).

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I didn't say it was "our fault" at all. If Apple is confusing us, that is clearly their fault, for not making the message strong enough.

But like I said, I see nothing that interest me in it

I'm just saying that would be an awesome marketing message, (and not to incite fanboy riots) something that may actually have come from Sony, is blaming the consumer for "not getting it"; it would be cool.

But really, that's my point, this may be beyond marketing, but the fact the actual product isn't practical. I bought an iphone not because of the marketing or hype, but because it had a bunch of shit I wanted and needed. The ipad should, in theory, have a ton of stuff I want and need but it doesn't.

Again, this thread is a testament to what people think it should do and that it doesn't. The theory that it's something else is all well and good, because it could just be that, but that something else right now sort of sucks and personally don't think we need that other thing until I/we get the stuff we wanted out of it in the first place.

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