UncleSpaggles

*Breathy Voice* Bayonetta *Breathy Voice*

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EDIT: Yeah, canceled the order. As incredibly fun as the demo was, seeing some of Kamiya's quotes about the character design turned me off it again. I get that in the context of the game it doesn't really come through (demo proved that to me) but seeing the design philosophy of the character made me think I'm still not that cool with the sexism whether it's apparent in the gameplay or not.

Edited by miffy495

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EDIT: Yeah, canceled the order. As incredibly fun as the demo was, seeing some of Kamiya's quotes about the character design turned me off it again. I get that in the context of the game it doesn't really come through (demo proved that to me) but seeing the design philosophy of the character made me think I'm still not that cool with the sexism whether it's apparent in the gameplay or not.

I'm pretty sure you're going to get mad at me for this, but...

I hope you also didn't buy Shadow Complex too, not buying a game because a perv worked on it but buying a game that a homophobe worked on is like going to a comedy show and laughing at the racist joke made about Asians but got offended by the Mexican joke....:blink:

:getmecoat

I got my copy yesterday, but I'm in the middle of playing inFamous, which I'm not enjoying as much as I thought I would so I'm rushing to the end... XP

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Well, it has to do with the context of the offensive material as well. Knowing that Orson Scott Card is homophobic didn't worry me as much with respect to the game that he worked on as he didn't design the game around how horrible the sodomites are or have a stereotyped gay character mincing around and putting Card's biases on display. On the other hand, Kamiya's apparently pretty messed up views on women went heavily into the design of the character and her style. I do think it's a pretty significant difference in the design philosophy of the game. I know that Card is a conservative who isn't comfortable with gay people, but I also appreciate that he kept that separate from his work on that game. Maybe not from his books, but after reading Ender's Game in high school I haven't opened up anything else that he's written, so I don't know. Reading the sexist things that Kamiya said and then seeing how much they really did inform what he produced is more unsettling to me.

For what it's worth though, I never have played Shadow Complex. Not for the same reasons, but there you have it.

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Point taken!

Now that I've played the game I can actually say....

It's the most hilarious game EVER! I hate it when a game is too over the top but it's at the same time serious, but this game? It's like a female Serious Sam! (Except it plays like Devil May Cry)

Despite her design, I don't think this is a "pervy" game... I mean it doesn't even have breast physics, something I thought EVERY Japanese game had!:hah:

Hmm, can he be really sexist? When they make an over the top male character, nobody complains, but make an over the top female one?

Bayonetta is the first female of her kind... If she was male she'd have more muscles than Kratos and Marcus Fenix combined and a voice so gravely she'd make David Hayter sound like a girl... and she'd never wear a shirt...

I don't know... maybe Kamiya is a perv, but I don't think he's sexist, it's so obvious he wants us to laugh at how overly sexualized she is while remaining tasteful...

At least, I think he wanted the game to be funny... :erm:

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EDIT: Yeah, canceled the order. As incredibly fun as the demo was, seeing some of Kamiya's quotes about the character design turned me off it again. I get that in the context of the game it doesn't really come through (demo proved that to me) but seeing the design philosophy of the character made me think I'm still not that cool with the sexism whether it's apparent in the gameplay or not.

I'm not looking for a debate and I'm not interested in playing or purchasing Bayonetta anytime soon because of my huge backlog of games, but I'm interested in the quotes you found just out of curiosity. I'm searching around, but I can't seem to find anything.

I'm really just interested in whether it's a bunch of justification he's putting for or maybe he's sort of a weird misogynist.

Not to bash the guy for anyone who's a fan of his work, since I'm maybe interested in playing through some of his games some day and I don't know much about him.

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Well the biggest one was the really creepy glee he took in her ass in an interview. Going on about how perfect it had to be for a while followed by the "I'm really into that stuff" just made me feel uncomfortable with the character design. The "best ass in gaming" stuff earlier in the thread and elsewhere on the internet didn't help with my icky feelings about it either, and I guess that combination just pushed me a bit too far. The gaming public can be kinda gross sometimes, but a lot of the talk around this game has gone far enough that I can't feel good about myself being a part of it. Now I can't really see the character without feeling a bit unpleasant.

Edited by miffy495

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as he didn't design the game around how horrible the sodomites are or have a stereotyped gay character mincing around and putting Card's biases on display.

I don't know what it says about me, but I totally would have played that. It sounds hilarious in a Fox News kind of way.

Edit: Bayonetta's beauty mark is aesthetically unsettling to me...I don't really know why.

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In the game, Bayonetta is leered at by the 'angelic' enemies she fights, often her attacks turn their lustful yearning back upon them with murderous results and the tease performance she puts on is part of this relationship. However, the game goes from showing things from the Angels POV to giving you a right eyeful from then on suggesting to me that the creator playfully views the player in the same light as the perving enemies. You can of course unlock more respectable costumes (and far more revealing ones), but the fact remains the cutscenes imo occasionally go just far enough to make the objectification on display troubling. Not enough to stop me from playing the game I might add, once you've become hooked by the combat system you'll be Select+RT skipping them anyway and the focus shifts back to the original relationship I mentioned. "You've been naughty", time for some spanky spanky!

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I've reached chapter VI and it has the most hilarious moments in the game so far.... Am I the only one who thinks this is a comedy and it should be taken seriously?

I mean, it has so many in-jokes! You have to be a fan of Devil May Cry, Viewtiful Joe and Sega to get them, but they are SOOO obvious!

Also, the game just gave me an achievement that had a spoiler in the title, I had my suspicions, but still it's not cool! :blink:

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So, here's the guy (me) who hated Bayonetta when he played the demo, and then payed for next day shipping on his replacement xbox so he could get back to playing Bayonetta.

Edit: playing this on a core system and then popping it into my new elite really drives home the difference between component and HDMI.

Edited by GrouchoClub

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Fighting my way through Non Stop Infinite Climax difficulty which has the Witch Time removed, the enemies are more aggressive deal more damage. I have the Rosary Beads equipped, which leave behind a large blue ball of explosive energy when you evade an attack, and the Moon of Mahaa-Kalaa to parry attacks and return fireballs. Great fun against the larger bosses and baiting Jeanne. One last achievement and then I'll continue my Platinum trophy run on Normal...should be a piece of piss after this! Love this game so much.

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So after introducing some one to Bayonetta as they like Devil May Cry games I decided it was finally time that I actually finish it.

I couldn't remember exactly why I had stopped playing at Chapter XII, I think I had simply become bored of the constant combo mashing or something.

I skipped through a bunch of chapters and liked the nod to Space Harrier as well as the climatic battle that ensued.

But then the game carried on for 2 more chapters incorporating the worst series of gameplay styles to end everything (turret sequence, clumsy platforming, on rails shoot out, boring boss battle and timed Streetfighter 'smash the car' section). It was awful.

The worst part was that every time you thought it was over the game kicked back into 'action' and it left me tired and frustrated by the tedium.

Now this might have been meant as an elaborate joke but it really wasn't funny by the time I triggered the final cutscene. The game reported that I had received the 'Stone' award for the last 2 chapters, as if I might want to go back and improve my performance grade. Frankly, I never want to play Bayonetta again.

After the initial delight of the opening 4 or 5 chapters... This was such a misfire.:tdown:

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First I'd like to say that this thread should be called, simply, "Bayonetta"

Secondly, having just managed to wring myself out of the giant turd that Fable 3 turned out to be, I loaded up Bayonetta and holy shit this is some crazy shitting shit. From the moment I pressed Start to the end of the chapter I had no idea what the hell was going on, who the people were, how I killed everything and why there are donuts everywhere. If things remain at this level of intense craziness I'm in for some fun, maybe.

About the combo stuff. There's a huge list combos I can practice. Do I have to actually learn these, or can I just do my thing and press all the buttons? I hit B and Y and she beats the living shit out of everything quite nicely, and sometimes she does weird stuff that might be a combo or something else. If I keep just mashing buttons and having a good time, will I be punished at some point? What I'm asking is, should I start reading up on combos?

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No, you can get through all of the game by spamming buttons. You can't get decent scores or look completely awesome all the time but you will be able to finish it.

I'll be interested to see how you feel after about chapter 9. Also, if you like sights that fry your eyeballs, you should make good on your thoughts about buying Vanquish.

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That^, but with one addendum: Learn to use the the dodge button. If you just barely dodge an attack, you go into bullet Matrix Witch time, where you have plenty of time to bash the feathers off angels without worrying about the 9 other angels trying to stab you with crosses.

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Actually I bought both Bayonetta and Vanquish, since I figured that if I liked one I'd like both.

And as for the dodging, yeah, I'm trying to do that just-in-time thing as much as possible. There's so much going on all the time, I guess actually knowing when to dodge will become something of a challenge.

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Played it a bit more, killed some huge bosses, which was fun. However, the combat feels very floaty and imprecise at times, especially with the larger enemies, it reminds me of WoW combat in a way. Even though I've successfully killed everyone, I feel like it's more down to luck and button mashing than any skill at all. It's like every time a fight start, the typical cartoon fight cloud with fists sticking out of it appears and I just push all the buttons and hope for the best. I remember giving up on God of War for the same reason. On a positive note, when I died I was able to continue from right before, so that didn't make me rage quit.

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Yeah, this isn't my kind of game. It's obvious that a million tons of love and care went into this thing, and I assume that it's a fantastic experience for people who like this particular kind of game, and while the design, animation and feeling of polish and joy kept me going for quite a while, I simply got bored by the constant fighting. I'm not the type to invest any time in getting good at one particular game, so it's button-mashing for me, and I assume that's the reason I find the battles becoming more and more boring, even with the constant introduction of new and crazy foes. I'm convinced, though, that if I took the time (and had the ability) to master the combat system, there would be plenty of nuance to the various enemies attack patterns and what have you.

Does Vanquish have the same kind of combo-based fighting as Bayonetta?

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Nope, the game is a cover shooter, but it is more about using the jet boost of suit and the bullet time to take people out.

I much preferred Vanquish, as you might have guessed from ramblings on the forum. Either check out my faux review which is linked in the other threadm or go read the eurogamer review which I found to be the best written.

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