ファイナルファンタジーXIII

[mikemariano]

Sure; how long did it take with that bullshit in the vault in fallout 3? Maybe not 6 hours, but from memory it felt like it.

My save game history tells me it took 2 hours, 15 minutes to get out of Vault 101.

Though maybe I completed it too quickly. Everyone got eaten by radroaches.

[Sinkwater]

I was horrified by this image from Kotaku: the maddeningly narrow, linear path of the first six hours of Final Fantasy XIII.

I never want to play this game.

Yeah, I know everybody does mostly the same stuff in a JRPG anyway, but this promises to be endless cutscenes, some battles, and zero exploration.

I know people will tolerate this type of gameplay, but look at that image. Is that conducive to fun role-playing? Compare that to Chrono Trigger. Compare it to a Western RPG like Fallout 3. Compare it to Diablo, which lets you leave the dungeon every once in a while.

Is that image what people want?

The thing I like about FF games is the unique battle systems and character development. It's not really about exploration or shaping the story like Bioware or Bethesda RPGs.

[ThunderPeel2001]

My save game history tells me it took 2 hours, 15 minutes to get out of Vault 101.

Though maybe I completed it too quickly. Everyone got eaten by radroaches.

Worse than the vault was that horrible cave system in Oblivion. In least in the vault there was a story unfolding (I kind of enjoyed it actually). Oblivion's opening was just dull, IMO.

[Roderick]

Those starting areas look huuuuge! I don't care that much about linearity, I've always found that to be a superficial critique of games. Some games revel in being linear. Some games don't. If it works, it works.

For instance, one of the major criticisms of LBA2 was that it was too linear. Yeah? So what? It was a brilliant game and it worked.

If the mechanics are fun enough, or the environment beautiful, the linearity of FF13's first chapters won't be a problem at all.

Also, I liked the Oblivion cave. It gave me some playtime to explore all the new physics and whatnot. Not saying I loved it, but I didn't mind. It seemed like a nice bit of pastiche, seeing as Arena started you off in a dungeon/sewer as well.

[mikemariano]

Linear isn't a dirty word, of course, but it limits what kind of role you can play in a game. That doesn't make it the best attribute for a role-playing game. Linearity is often used for carefully managed game moments designed to give a specific experience. But what kind of experience are we getting?

So far, Final Fantasy XIII has not shown anything but the gameplay below.

• You will watch a cut-scene.
  
• You will press up on the controller and run down an abandoned highway until bad guys rush towards you.
  
• The screen will dissolve.
  
• You will choose items on a menu. (NOTE: This is the part that is reportedly interesting.)
  
• You will win and be given a star rating on your fight.
  
• Repeat for six hours.
  

The highway setting alone makes this seem like some cruel parody of Penn and Teller's Desert Bus game.

Compare this to the very linear opening of Final Fantasy VI:

• You will watch Terra and her soldiers march through the snow.
  
• You will press up on the controller and march through town in your Magitek Armor.
  
• You will be attacked. You will win.
  
• Repeat for five minutes.
  
• You will find what you're looking for and be knocked out.
  
• Soldiers will come looking for you. You will escape with Moogles, and the game as a whole will open up for you.
  
• This will take...45 minutes, maybe?
  

The beginnings of both games are quite linear, but VI changes the gameplay in three different instances and does it in one-sixth of the time. XIII has so far only shown one mode of gameplay in one endless corridor.

Where's the excitement? I want to love these games, but the series seems to be snowballing all of its most terrible ideas into something that doesn't even pretend to be playable.

[miffy495]

Was VI the last time you played a Final Fantasy? I ask because the "crazy directed experience for many hours" thing seems to have been a staple since the series went 3D as far as I can tell. I've only played bits of VII and VIII for the 3D ones, but you pretty much just described them in your thing about XIII.

[mikemariano]

Also, Sinkwater makes a good point: Final Fantasy has had some good battle systems in the past.

V and VI especially had inventive, fun battle options based on your job or your party members. VII and VIII ruined this for me, though, and made me frustrated to do anything other than A-button my way through the game. Especially VIII, which turned Summons into a bloated cutscene nightmare.

That being said, the Final Fantasy XIII battle footage that I've seen so far looks like nothing but A-buttoning. I hope not!

[mikemariano]

Was VI the last time you played a Final Fantasy? I ask because the "crazy directed experience for many hours" thing seems to have been a staple since the series went 3D as far as I can tell. I've only played bits of VII and VIII for the 3D ones, but you pretty much just described them in your thing about XIII.

Ah, miffy495, I think you've judged both me and the series more or less accurately. VI was the most recent Final Fantasy I played more than half of (still trying to beat it!). I played two different demos and a friend's game of VII, the demo for VIII, and the beginning of X, but haven't played IX or XII (or XI, if that counts).

And I realize that the non-linearity of VIII amounted to "you can stumble around your dorm room if you don't want to go fight monsters yet", but at least it was a change of scenery. XIII seems to think even that is too much freedom.

[Garple]

Worse than the vault was that horrible cave system in Oblivion. In least in the vault there was a story unfolding (I kind of enjoyed it actually). Oblivion's opening was just dull, IMO.

Yeah, fucking exterminating rats in sewers has got to be outlawed as an opening rpg sequence...and that goes for any close equivalent too (giant cockroaches etc...).

[ThunderPeel2001]

Ah, miffy495, I think you've judged both me and the series more or less accurately. VI was the most recent Final Fantasy I played more than half of (still trying to beat it!). I played two different demos and a friend's game of VII, the demo for VIII, and the beginning of X, but haven't played IX or XII (or XI, if that counts).

So how can you complain about FFVII's battle system when it was actually fricking awesome? (Possibly my fave out of I to IV -- the ones I've played.) I heard about FFVIII's summon/cut-scene nightmare (doesn't sound fun), but I've also heard that the game wasn't designed to be played like that (I hope that's true).

I share some of your reservations about the opening of FFXIII but, at the same time, I'm more than prepared to reserve judgement until I play it... the "six hour" thing might be totally wrong, for a start.

[Fuzzy Lobster]

So...

I never got my chocobo for my XBox avatar. Did anyone get theirs? Am I just not looking in the right place? I was expecting to receive an email or something.

[ThunderPeel2001]

So...

I never got my chocobo for my XBox avatar. Did anyone get theirs? Am I just not looking in the right place? I was expecting to receive an email or something.

Hey, yeah! I ordered one... where did it go?

[Sombre]

Chocobo pets should be arriving in your email inbox via codes now. Enjoy!

[Fuzzy Lobster]

Oh! Sure enough, there it is. Figures that it would show up in my email two days after I sound like a big jerk griping about it. Heh.

Hooray, chocobo!!

[Lu]

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It's... I don't know what to think about that. It looks nice, at least. I'd like to play it, but I'm in no rush. Japanese soap bullshit makes my toes curl up.

The first English trailer I've seen. The voice acting seems better yet again.

[Fuzzy Lobster]

I'm going to reserve judgement until I play it, which I still fully intend to do.

That being said, that trailer was hilariously, unbearably cheesy. That music.. oof. It does look nice though!

[mikemariano]

ActionButton.net's Tim Rogers posted an absolutely vital overview of the game's combat system yesterday.

Like his other reviews, this article is insanely long. Unlike his other reviews, he actually describes the game.

The combat system seems interesting, sort of a Super Smash Bros. approach of "First make them vulnerable, then go in for the kill!" But it doesn't sound like they put it to its best use.

In fact, for a good chunk of the game, they don't let you use it at all.

You will spend many, many hours of Final Fantasy XIII using just two characters at a time, one of them unable to physically attack an enemy. The game feeds you the battle system in little astronaut-pellet-sized portions, until, two dozen hours in, it sighs and says, “Okay, you can have fun now”.

Sorry I keep ragging on this game, but it's quite exasperating to watch the developers smother to death everything I find interesting about Final Fantasy.

[ThunderPeel2001]

Sorry I keep ragging on this game, but it's quite exasperating to watch the developers smother to death everything I find interesting about Final Fantasy.

Well, you can rag on it all you want once we've got our hands on it, but in the meantime it's all just third party opinions. It does sound like SquareSoft might have finally dropped the ball a bit on this one, though. I hope it's not the case, but FFVIII had its fair share of criticism, and some people love it.

[Fuzzy Lobster]

It's so hard to tell what a game is going to be like before it comes out/releases a demo (sometimes demos don't help either). At least it is for me. I thought Dragon Age was going to be a big pile of cheese from it's marketing campaign, for example, but I ended up adoring it. Also, some aspect of the game that is totally eviscerated by someone else, may really appeal to you personally, or work for what you're looking for in the game. Who knows? I really hope it turns out super awesome.

[ThunderPeel2001]

It's so hard to tell what a game is going to be like before it comes out/releases a demo (sometimes demos don't help either). At least it is for me. I thought Dragon Age was going to be a big pile of cheese from it's marketing campaign, for example, but I ended up adoring it. Also, some aspect of the game that is totally eviscerated by someone else, may really appeal to you personally, or work for what you're looking for in the game. Who knows? I really hope it turns out super awesome.

What did you think of Blue Dragon? (If you've played it?) It sort of seems to be a FF step-child, but I don't know anyone who's played it.

[mikemariano]

It's so hard to tell what a game is going to be like before it comes out ...

Absolutely. That's why I'm glad the Action Button review got as detailed as it did---combining that knowledge with footage of the game and with my knowledge of past Final Fantasy games gives me a good idea of what I'd be getting into.

The Dragon Age comparison is only half-applicable here. Both it and Mass Effect 2 had loathsome marketing, but the ads never indicated how the games would play. The only thing to worry about was having to listen to Marilyn Manson and/or Subject Zero the whole way though.

Side note: I am semi-close to the end of Final Fantasy V Advance. The fun of the Job system is starting to sour; almost no end-game enemies are vulnerable to a regular attack. I now require a walkthrough to hold my hand through each cave. It's slowed me down quite a bit!

[Fuzzy Lobster]

Yeah, full confession: I clicked on the link, saw the mountain of words and ran away, so I may have had a different opinion had I read it. Oops. I am a butt.

Fair enough, the mass effect/Dragon Age ads that I was reacting to definitely left all gameplay to the imagination, which I guess that article doesn't, which would know if I had a greater attention span than your average goldfish, which I don't. Uninteresting combat was my primary gripe with FF12, as well and I think it really kept me from getting into it. I want big fancy spells, damn it. I still hope that other aspects of the game will make it awesome and that the combat won't really be as boring as all that.

Thunderpeel, I haven't played Blue Dragon. I initially meant to, but got my XBox waaay after it came out, then was distracted by the newer and fancier games out there. It got seriously mediocre reviews, basically along these lines, if I remember correctly. Have you played it? Any good?

[Sombre]

People are complaining that the American and UK versions don't have Japanese voice overs. Why are people so bad?

[dpp]

I preordered the game with Amazon Prime, hopefully it will be here tomorrow...

[SoulChicken]

So it very much seems that if you don't mind going through 24 hours of linear tutorials, the game opens up and becomes a great Final Fantasy game. That's a ridiculous amount of time, I hope its not too tedious because I very much want to get to the good bit. I'll probably struggle through it. I played FFXII again on the weekend but using PCSX2, so I had it running great at 1920 x 1080. I really love the style and art in that game and I also like the combat system. Very dragon age!

So yeah, Amazon Prime for tomorrow, then we shall see.