GameDreamer

Demon's Souls

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Kinda seems like the game doesn't really communicate much to the player.

I wouldn't say that statement is unfair, but it does give you some guidance. Between the manual and in game info you can tell what weapons are stronger, what items do, what your stats affect, etc. I think some things are left intentionally obtuse to fit the tone of the game. The player and character are sent to this unknown world, so it would be odd if the game gave you a bunch of info upfront that your in-game character couldn't know.

The game does require some trial and error and experimentation, but, for me at least, it adds to the sense of discovery and is rarely frustrating.

I wonder if any of the thumbs are planning on trying it out. I would like to hear it discussed on the podcast.

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Looks like some people are forgetting that this game was done in Japan... If you're looking for a streamed experience, this clearly isn't the game for you.

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Looks like some people are forgetting that this game was done in Japan... If you're looking for a streamed experience, this clearly isn't the game for you.

I somewhat agree with this, but for a game that was brought over and localized from Japan, it really feels like a Western-developed title.

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Is this game actually enjoyable? How and why? I watched the GB quick look, and I feel oddly compelled to play this...but I hesitate, because I can think of no logical reason why I should pay for and spend time on this. It doesn't really sound like a good game in any way. I understand that people find the level of challenge refreshing, but that sounds like its only merit.

And yet...

I don't know...It kind of seems like a Russian PC game.

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Is this game actually enjoyable? How and why? I watched the GB quick look, and I feel oddly compelled to play this...but I hesitate, because I can think of no logical reason why I should pay for and spend time on this. It doesn't really sound like a good game in any way. I understand that people find the level of challenge refreshing, but that sounds like its only merit.

And yet...

I don't know...It kind of seems like a Russian PC game.

It's a really good game, and it doesn't really have the Russian PC vibe. The one thing I will say is that the difficulty will result in you spending a lot of video game time on the game. I actually need to get back to it, because I got distracted by other games and I didn't have the time to spend four or five hours a day playing it to try and make up for my suckiness.

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It's different. I don't think "hard" is the word exactly, because it's not like it's unfair or...particularly challenging in terms of gameplay or strategy. I think I would say that it is "punishing." You die easily - this is the main source of challenge - so you're forced to proceed carefully and slowly through each level, lest you lose your accumulated souls. It forces you to appreciate the nuances of the various enemies, level design, etc in a way that most games do not.

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Is this game actually enjoyable? How and why? I watched the GB quick look, and I feel oddly compelled to play this...but I hesitate, because I can think of no logical reason why I should pay for and spend time on this. It doesn't really sound like a good game in any way. I understand that people find the level of challenge refreshing, but that sounds like its only merit.

And yet...

I don't know...It kind of seems like a Russian PC game.

The controls are pretty fantastic, the character growth systems are great, the environments are really damn cool.

Go read one of the thousand reviews that give the game a 90+ review score, or Chris' praise on how it's like a Mikami game.

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I traded in some games and got it for five bucks. It was well worth that.

Edit: And, yeah...you die a lot, but it's not the least bit frustrating (They must be geniuses to manage this...other game devs. should study with the team that made this so they can learn how to make challenge without frustration...the Demon's Souls guys are probably Zen masters or something (ign.com).

Edited by GrouchoClub

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Vinnie doesn't really seem well informed...

Jeff's take: I didn't do the tutorial, but this game doesn't control well at all! All I could do was use a sword, because I never learned the buttons! The game mechanic sounds dumb!

Ugg, that video is terrible.

That pretty much sums up how GiantBomb discusses every game. If you go to that site for anything but energy drink and junk food reviews, I don't know what to say.

My experience with Demon's Souls went a little like this:

"Wow, this game is extremely immersive and difficult. I hope I don't miss anything in this tutorial section. Hey, I just saw a ghost teleport up into the sky, over this bridge! I wonder how I get those items back there? Oh shit, a giant demon! They should've warned me! I don't even have time to equip! Fuck! Okay, so, foggy doorways equals boss Demon. Okay, don't fuck up, don't fuck up. Yes! I got him down to 70% of his HP, and I've been fighting him for 15 minutes! This is ridiculous! Roll, you fucker! Don't get hit by that giant cleaver! No! Noooo! Fuck that! I died! All of that fighting-of-Demon-boss for nothing!"

"Oh. I was supposed to die? This is how the game starts, then? The game starts with my death? Wow. This is going to be interesting. This voice acting is really quite good. This is a Japanese game? Whoa, I can customize how I carry items with my arms? I love this game!"

*9hrs later*

"Fuck this game. Fuck this fucking red-eyed knight! Why is he so fucking fast!? And fuck these fucking dogs! Where do they even come from? Fuck this fucking Tower Knight! Fuck! Fucking, fuck, fuck, fuck! I hate this game!"

*After taking a break by beating the entire game of Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2*

"Oh, hey, I was able to summon two other guys to help me finally beat the Tower Knight. That was pretty neat. Thank guys. PMs sent and S ratings all around! It's a shame you can't just party up and play co-op the whole time. Well, onto the next world. But first, to the Nexus!"

"Hey, it's the blacksmith guy! 'Repair Equipment'? Really? You're supposed to repair things? Oh. So, my equipment was all nearly broken? That's good to know. Fixed! Boy, it sure would be nice to just have a 'Fix All' button. Let's upgrade this cool sword and spend the rest of my souls on the Leveling Witch. Haha! 'Touch the Demon inside me'...that's great."

*Halfway through the mines*

"You know, I'm not sure why I ever got so angry at this wonderful little game. The art style and enemy design varies so greatly between the worlds. This feels like a modern, third-person Diablo game. The controls are surprisingly decent, the music is great. I love this game. Games!"

"What's this? A pit mineshaft? I see a bunch of glowing loot down there. I bet I'm supposed to jump down there, on those wooden beams. Yeah, they definitely want me to jump down. But, I remember from the videos I've seen, the character sort of 'slides' when he lands on top of objects, from a jump. Oh well, I'll just be really careful -- like, Mega Man careful. I am so going to make this."

*Fall to death 80% of the way down, due to 'slide' and lose 30k souls -- also, giant fucking worms*

"...phhhh-FUUUUUUU-!"

And the cycle repeats. It's very much a love-hate relationship. There's so much to love about it, but it is unapologetic. It is the only game, in my memory, that actually punishes you for dying and having difficulties. In that respect, it feels very much like playing through a 'Bullshit-hard / dickpunchingly-hard' NES game. Like, say, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (

). The key difference being: Demon's Souls is actually worth playing through, and when you die, it's usually your fault.

There are going to be a number of hours where you will sit in front of your PS3 and wonder, "Why did I purchase this evil game?" Just give it time. Find some other people playing it, and ask for some GamePro Pro-Tips. Demon's Souls, despite the fact that it does not really encourage communication between players, really is a community game. It's a sort of word-of-mouth experience, both in terms of "Why do I want to play this?" and "How the fuck am I supposed to play this?"

If anyone wants some advice (or hell, can offer some) and wants to try to meet up for some co-op (you have to be within 10 levels), send me a PM. I'm a level 70-ish Knight, with a specialization in Bows, Spears and Swords (with a few crucial magic spells as well).

Also, I love this soundtrack. Atlus always has awesome first print bonuses. :violin:

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"Fuck this game. Fuck this fucking red-eyed knight! Why is he so fucking fast!? And fuck these fucking dogs! Where do they even come from? Fuck this fucking Tower Knight! Fuck! Fucking, fuck, fuck, fuck! I hate this game!"

Just 5 minutes ago, it was me vs. the red eyed knight. I was out of mp for fireballs, but I wanted to stay and fight so I got out my spear and shield. He ran along the bridge toward me, pole-arm couched, lunging at me, so I rolled back. Then he walked towards me, shield up. I saw him rear back to strike, so I stepped forward, parried and stabbed him in the face! That was the first time I'd ever killed that bastard in a fair fight, and it was just as satisfying as killing a boss.

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That pretty much sums up how GiantBomb discusses every game. If you go to that site for anything but energy drink and junk food reviews, I don't know what to say.

Yeah, those guys are insanely straightforward and literal-minded in terms of how they think about games, which isn't for me but a lot of people seem to like'em quite a bit.

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Yeah, those guys are insanely straightforward and literal-minded in terms of how they think about games, which isn't for me but a lot of people seem to like'em quite a bit.

To be fair, a Quick Look is more or less just them popping in a game they just got and hitting record on their capture gear. I think it's great because you get their initial gut reactions of the gameplay. When they decide to cover a game beyond the QL, it's much more comprehensive and in-depth.

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To be fair, a Quick Look is more or less just them popping in a game they just got and hitting record on their capture gear. I think it's great because you get their initial gut reactions of the gameplay. When they decide to cover a game beyond the QL, it's much more comprehensive and in-depth.

Exactly, and besides, I think the point of a quick look is to give you a "quick look" of the gameplay. It's not a review or an analysis. It's just "if you're wondering about this game...here's an idea of what it's like" I find them extremely helpful in deciding whether or not I want to check out a particular game.

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And so I just discovered that the Hallows Eve event (pure black World Tendency) fucked my 50+ hr character, by mysteriously removing Ed the Blacksmith.

If you don't know what that means: Ed the Blacksmith is the only way to can great enchanted or upper-level weapons.

And he's gone. For no reason at all. Great.

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Exactly, and besides, I think the point of a quick look is to give you a "quick look" of the gameplay. It's not a review or an analysis. It's just "if you're wondering about this game...here's an idea of what it's like" I find them extremely helpful in deciding whether or not I want to check out a particular game.

I completely agree. In any case, the Giantbomb guys have a sense of fun about it and don't take themselves too seriously. I really don't like reading five page reviews of a game, or coverage that has an agenda regarding the whole "games as art" stuff.

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I completely agree. In any case, the Giantbomb guys have a sense of fun about it and don't take themselves too seriously. I really don't like reading five page reviews of a game, or coverage that has an agenda regarding the whole "games as art" stuff.

Exactly. Giant Bomb approaches things in a very straight-forward way and many people like that. On the other hand, just because you like Giant Bomb, doesn't mean that you don't like more in-depth analysis like you used to hear on Idle Thumbs.

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On the other hand, just because you like Giant Bomb, doesn't mean that you don't like more in-depth analysis like you used to hear on Idle Thumbs.

Exactly. It's awesome to have both. Or, it was. :sad:

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Just thought I'd post my initial reactions to Demon Souls.

I like getting my butt kicked by games, so I'm enjoying my time with Demon Souls. I also suck pretty hard, so I'm 3 hrs in and I still haven't cleared the first "level" of the baltious castle or whatever the heck its called. By not cleared I mean I haven't gotten to any checkpoint and I always have to replay the whole thing when I die.

You guys are right that it's amazing how enjoyable and not frustrating it is to die so often, even when I've spent hours making literally negative progress from the game start (I have less souls than when I started). I'm a barbarian and for now I'm steadfastly refusing to start another character with less shitty gear than a club and a loincloth. The sweet sensation of skulls cracking under my swings is reward enough.

The game really makes you learn the combat system and the enemies, and to be constantly on your toes. I love that. One question: I can't find the black maiden to raise my ability scores. Do I actually have to make some progress before she appears? Lol...

Cheers to my demon slaying homies out there.

Thanks for the review there Jon, it was so freakin funny :grin:!

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Just thought I'd post my initial reactions to Demon Souls.

I like getting my butt kicked by games, so I'm enjoying my time with Demon Souls. I also suck pretty hard, so I'm 3 hrs in and I still haven't cleared the first "level" of the baltious castle or whatever the heck its called. By not cleared I mean I haven't gotten to any checkpoint and I always have to replay the whole thing when I die.

You guys are right that it's amazing how enjoyable and not frustrating it is to die so often, even when I've spent hours making literally negative progress from the game start (I have less souls than when I started). I'm a barbarian and for now I'm steadfastly refusing to start another character with less shitty gear than a club and a loincloth. The sweet sensation of skulls cracking under my swings is reward enough.

The game really makes you learn the combat system and the enemies, and to be constantly on your toes. I love that. One question: I can't find the black maiden to raise my ability scores. Do I actually have to make some progress before she appears? Lol...

Cheers to my demon slaying homies out there.

Thanks for the review there Jon, it was so freakin funny :grin:!

She'll talk to you after you clear that first level (by beating a Demon) and she'll let you update stats and she'll be around for a while after that.

Enjoy! I need to get back to Demon's Souls. So difficult. So awesome.

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I'm in a similar situation to DrStrangePork.

This game is so, so, so fucking good. Well worth the eight or so months of longing after screens and gameplay videos.

Y'all are right about the Quick Looks, great way of getting buzzed for/checking out a game. Gerstmann is definitely one of those "just for fun" gamers, but he doesn't pretend otherwise.

If you are part of the arty-farty crowd, here's some excellent Demon's Souls analysis by Quinns.

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I'm in a similar situation to DrStrangePork.

This game is so, so, so fucking good. Well worth the eight or so months of longing after screens and gameplay videos.

Y'all are right about the Quick Looks, great way of getting buzzed for/checking out a game. Gerstmann is definitely one of those "just for fun" gamers, but he doesn't pretend otherwise.

If you are part of the arty-farty crowd, here's some excellent Demon's Souls analysis by Quinns.

I'm not all that arty and I try not to be farty, but thanks for the cool link!

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Picked this up finally to check it out. Only a few hours into it so this isn't any form of opinion, but more a first reaction. But I'm starting to think this is one of those games people really like because of the old-school toughness of it.

I don't mind dying a lot, but having to re-do content over and over and over again is starting to kind bore me a little. I do like whatever it is it's doing as a toned down quiet game, it's kind of Otagi meets Kings Field mood.

The messages are neat, but one of them, killed me! I go to read one and it's like "Watch out!" and I die from some dude to the left. As annoying as that was, it's pretty funny as I'm sure it was intended as a trap; why not put the message 5 feet back so I could anticipate?! So that's kind of neat, so I stopped reading a lot of messages; lesson learned.

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It's both old-school and thoroughly modern. Actually, it's a kind of conciliatory game. It strikes an incredible halfway point between the progressives and the hardcore traditionalists, between Japanese and Western design philosophies, between intense difficulty and candid playability, between co-operation and competitiveness, between reserved, brooding atmosphere and overblown craziness, between role-playing and action, between risk and reward, and dare I say, life and death.

Basically, it's the kind of game the entire internet can get behind.

And it's the kind of game that's FUCKING AWESOME!

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It's both old-school and thoroughly modern. Actually, it's a kind of conciliatory game. It strikes an incredible halfway point between the progressives and the hardcore traditionalists, between Japanese and Western design philosophies, between intense difficulty and candid playability, between co-operation and competitiveness, between reserved, brooding atmosphere and overblown craziness, between role-playing and action, between risk and reward, and dare I say, life and death.

Basically, it's the kind of game the entire internet can get behind.

And it's the kind of game that's FUCKING AWESOME!

yeah, I get everything above upto the fucking awesome part. I'm just not seeing yet and I'm not sure if something like the deserves the time put into it to get the rewards... kind of like the people I yell at when they say farcry 2 wasn't very good.

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