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Nachimir

Games with steep difficulty curves

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I really enjoy games that keep on ramping up the difficulty instead of holding your hand, so I'd like to collect a list of them. There's something incredibly fulfilling about banging your head on a level repeatedly, then finally finding something clicks and you can do it. The build up of tension and adrenaline as you're getting close can be magnificent too :)

It's not the same as just having a very hard mode above the normal difficulties; I mean games that actually deny you progress with harder difficulties and offer you no easier alternative.

Today I'm finding the medium levels on Trials HD are a *lot* harder to get gold on than the earlier ones. Some of the achievements in it are actually meaningful too, for instance completing a particular map without changing the rider position.

Previously, I've found similar spikes in difficulty with Osu! Tatakae! Ouendan! (especially the last level) and it's sequel, and Wipeout HD is one of my favorites for this kind of thing too. I worked on a project last year with a guy who was a producer on Wipeout (and 2097 too, I think), and he said he used to argue with the development team all the time, asking them to make it easier, but they insisted on keeping the harder, later difficulties in :)

What other games are there that do this kind of thing to the player?

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Henry Hatsworth definitely had me banging my head against a wall over and over from about halfway through the third world til the end of the game. Goddamn that game ramps up.

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I really enjoy games that keep on ramping up the difficulty instead of holding your hand, so I'd like to collect a list of them. There's something incredibly fulfilling about banging your head on a level repeatedly, then finally finding something clicks and you can do it.

If you're looking for something more cerebral and less skill-based, then this perfectly describes Braid. You will repeatedly find yourself tearing your hair out trying to figure out how to get that next puzzle piece. Then you may suffer despair and despondency as you think to yourself "there's no way, there's no fucking way..." Then you'll have that ecstatic "Eureka!" moment when you finally figure it out, and feel like the smartest human being alive. Then you'll repeat the process all over again.

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I usually have this with puzzle games that are relying on time, like Trackmania and Cogs.

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Trials 2 was great like that.

However, I do think that completion of any game without death should be possible.

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It's a too obvious answer perhaps, but I'd offer Ninja Gaiden. It's probably the only game I've stuck with to try and learn my way through.

While saying that, there is a bit of a "knack" to it. Maybe knacks rule games out of this discussion.

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Previously, I've found similar spikes in difficulty with Osu! Tatakae! Ouendan! (especially the last level) and it's sequel

I don't know why but the OTO games seemed to have perfect difficulty curves for me. Somehow they made me get better and better at them at just the right rate so I didn't just breeze through the whole thing but never actually got frustrated.

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Yes, that's exactly it. I would say it gets frustrating, but it's a particular kind of it. It's a joyful frustration that dangles competence just out of reach, but only for short periods of time and you can feel yourself progressing through it.

Braid (While one of my favorite games), and puzzles with time attack modes don't do this for me. A lot of other games feel like they're feeding me a load of regurgitated pap by the end, they're repetitious and never really ramp up much at all. I suppose building difficulty like this makes story more accessible...

I suppose if you take this (much beloved by game designers):

Designing_flow_9.jpg

and build a difficulty curve that steepens enough as it progresses, everyone will find an optimum? Perhaps this only works for games that have no story (Trials) or are at least light on it (Ouendan).

(Edit: Csikszentmihalyi talked about flow using real world situations, in which case "anxiety" is probably the right term, however, with games the stakes are not generally real, so "frustration" seems more appropriate).

Edit edit: n0wak, I love that :)

Edited by Nachimir

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Trials HD wasn't too bad with the ramp-up. It did, at least, give a nice separation by having the Hard and Expert categories. I gave up on Henry Hatsworth, though. All I wanted was a nice, friendly platformer, and instead I was force-fed my own ass. That and the "dapper gentlemen" Sim-speak was really fucking annoying.

I don't really agree with Ouendan, though. I thought that it had a nice progression that trained me to be able to play the harder difficulties as I got to them.

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Henry Hatsworth definitely had me banging my head against a wall over and over from about halfway through the third world til the end of the game. Goddamn that game ramps up.

God yes, I've recently reached a point where there is one of those walls that shoots grenades and a guy that fires a homing mortar thing and all you get to stand on is destructable floor :frusty:

Oh and SF IV; Fuck Seth.

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The levels in Trials HD are so perfect. Each one seems tricky until you go to the next one. Then you think back on what an easy time you had.

The hard levels are really really tough, but still doable. Just. I remarked to Nachimir that I avoid games like this as they get frustrating, but there's something about it that doesn't make me want to smash the controller [Ferris Wheel, veteran, I'm looking at you]. I just keep retrying it - maybe it's the joyful implementation of retry, in that it's near enough instant. A load to retry the track would have meant me playing it for about half an hour.

Had quick go at the extreme first level. :deranged:

I think I've reached the first hanging man on the Eve learning cliff.The bulldozer is what cracks me up the most though.

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Final Fantasy 12 had this exact thing for me.

I was playing for around 8/9 hours, and finally reached an airship, where you rescue Ashe. From this point, it's a steam of nonstop guys who are force feeding my ass to me. An alarm goes off, which you can stop ONCE for 60s, and believe me, you'll need it. After being raped in half twice, I made it to the checkpoint, only to fight a Judge. If you can imagine the opening scene of Judge Dredd, it was like that. Only ALL of my guys died.

After consulting a guide, I should be "Over level 20".

I made it there at level 10. I have no idea how I managed to get that far on such a low level.

Looks like I'll go back to it in 6 months.

Videogaaaaaaaaaaaames

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I cannot agree about Trails HD I got to the level in hard with the metal spheres you have to ride across, and after more than a hundred tries I still hadn't progressed at all.

Why can't this game just let me try the next level already.

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Oh and SF IV; Fuck Seth.
Yeah, SF IV single player is ridiculous. I didn't give it much of a chance as I'm not a big fighting game guy in the first place but I could barely play on medium even.

One of the hardest games I have ever played is Call of Duty 4. I played it (well I'm on the last level but haven't played for a few weeks) on "Hardened" I think which is the 2nd hardest difficulty, and I just can't even imagine playing on Veteran (hardest). I know I am not a pro FPS player but I don't think I'm terrible and I probably should have played on a lower difficulty, but I'm too proud (want the achievement) to lower the difficulty. Not sure if this one meets what exactly you specified or not as I haven't played the lesser difficulties but several levels have taken me 10 or more tries.

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Why can't this game just let me try the next level already.

Yes. While I enjoyed the challenge, there were definitely points when I just wanted to try the next level and come back later. It was disappointing that I had to almost brute force my way through a few tracks in order to keep playing the game.

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God yes, I've recently reached a point where there is one of those walls that shoots grenades and a guy that fires a homing mortar thing and all you get to stand on is destructable floor :frusty:

Oh and SF IV; Fuck Seth.

If I recall, that's actually the last level in the game before the final boss. You're so close! Do it!

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One of the hardest games I have ever played is Call of Duty 4. I played it (well I'm on the last level but haven't played for a few weeks) on "Hardened" I think which is the 2nd hardest difficulty, and I just can't even imagine playing on Veteran (hardest). I know I am not a pro FPS player but I don't think I'm terrible and I probably should have played on a lower difficulty, but I'm too proud (want the achievement) to lower the difficulty. Not sure if this one meets what exactly you specified or not as I haven't played the lesser difficulties but several levels have taken me 10 or more tries.

What really makes Call of Duty 4 hard is because the mechanics and your squadmates make it seem as though you're supposed to stay behind cover and take out the bad guys at range, when constantly respawning enemies mean this is a sure way to a slow lingering death.

If you really want to progress you have to rush forward heedlessly, since that's the only way to turn off the monster closets.

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What really makes Call of Duty 4 hard is because the mechanics and your squadmates make it seem as though you're supposed to stay behind cover and take out the bad guys at range, when constantly respawning enemies mean this is a sure way to a slow lingering death.

If you really want to progress you have to rush forward heedlessly, since that's the only way to turn off the monster closets.

Yeah, the respawning enemies suck, I don't think I even realized that till a couple levels in. I'll have to give it a go and see if I can beat that last level sometime soon.

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Fun Fact: Right now only 1(!!) person has earned the 'Marathon' achievement in Trials HD. :crazy:

@psych: Don't all the levels of a certain difficulty unlock at once? Also you might try practicing your ball riding skills in the 'Outside the Ball' skill game.

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I suppose there's something subjective to it. One person's perfectly difficult game might be another's most hated. A part of it also seems to be that the games are harsh, but fair. If you can perform awesomely, the games allow you to rather than just randomly punishing you to increase difficulty.

Trials HD definitely gives me an emotional peak that I've only found with the Ouendan and Wipeout series before; loading it up for a quick session, I know I'm probably only going to nail one level really well, if that.

There are design choices that influence it too. For instance, if there wasn't an instant restart button in Trials I probably would have played it for half an hour and never looked back.

Fun Fact: Right now only 1(!!) person has earned the 'Marathon' achievement in Trials HD. :crazy:

Oh man. This does not bode well for the rest of September :)

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Midnight Club: Los Angeles doesn't so much have a curve as just random brick walls. God I hate that game so much. No racing game should employ Rubber Banding, and if it does, it shouldn't be glaringly obvious.

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Need for Speed Most Wanted (I think) had that even worse. Translucent white arrows hovering about 2 meters above the road pointing you in a direction, while also service the role of almost invisible wall.

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