Roderick

Dragon Age

Recommended Posts

Yeah, the overall marketing campaign has definitely been worse for Dragon Age than Mass Effect 2, though I think out of all the trailer, Subject Zero is still the worst between the two games. I think it's like some of you said, they just don't know how to market to the old-school RPG audience. I would say the most recent game like this was Neverwinter Nights 2 though that didn't have near the marketing push as this game or the success of Oblivion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I can't bring myself to do it.

So, I manned up and watched it, Jesus, how much of that was ripped from action films/comics such as 300.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So, I manned up and watched it, Jesus, how much of that was ripped from action films/comics such as 300.

I think it would have been bearable without the ice-cleavage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So, I manned up and watched it, Jesus, how much of that was ripped from action films/comics such as 300.

You think ripping off 300 is a bad thing when you are trying to sell people on a fantasy RPG?

We, all of us on the internett who talk about games on forums, are not people marketing is trying to hit with stuff like this. We will buy a game based on peer review, and our total impact on the sales will be minimal.

If you think this looked like something ripped from 300, that is one of the biggest praises the marketing department can get. 300 got a better Theatrical performance then Batman Begins, how could they not aim for that group?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You think ripping off 300 is a bad thing when you are trying to sell people on a fantasy RPG?

We, all of us on the internett who talk about games on forums, are not people marketing is trying to hit with stuff like this. We will buy a game based on peer review, and our total impact on the sales will be minimal.

If you think this looked like something ripped from 300, that is one of the biggest praises the marketing department can get. 300 got a better Theatrical performance then Batman Begins, how could they not aim for that group?

Ripping off anything is always a bad thing, unless it is a parody, which this is not. Bioware showed that they can do awesome trailers (with The Old Republic), unlike these which are quite frankly atrocious. The trailer itself started pretty well. then quickly became annoying. I doubt the game will be anything like the trailers. Oh and finally did he really have to stab the dragon through the head after it was dead.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Oh and finally did he really have to stab the dragon through the head after it was dead.

Hey, man. That was EXTREME. :frusty:

I'm kind of expecting this game to be a little bit like watching a B-movie at this point anyway, what with all the dwarf sex and whatnot I keep hearing about, so why not a bit more head-smashy to go along with it?

It will be interesting to see what the actual game is like (both this and Mass Effect 2) and whether the trailers are really representative of the overall goofiness of the games.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ripping off anything is always a bad thing, unless it is a parody, which this is not. Bioware showed that they can do awesome trailers (with The Old Republic), unlike these which are quite frankly atrocious. The trailer itself started pretty well. then quickly became annoying. I doubt the game will be anything like the trailers. Oh and finally did he really have to stab the dragon through the head after it was dead.

You need to define what you mean "ripping off" means. Last I checked, pushing a bunch of guys off a cliff using a shield was not copyrighted by 300. Also, the destinct lack of dragon slaying comes to mind when I recall watching 300.

The visual style, the rock music instead of a rehash of Braveheart soundtrack, and the idea of few against many, yes, those things bring the 300 image to mind.

And you know why it's presented this way? Because of this: http://www.gamespot.com/news/6185476.html and this http://www.gametrailers.com/video/exclusive-e3-dragon-age/36034

When this game was first shown, everyone was down on it for being a Lord of the Rings rippoff. The bellyaching about how played out all that LotR was, and how orcestral music was so last year, and how, while they trusted BioWare, this might have worked in 2002, but not 2008.

So whats the marketing guy to do, well, there was this other fantasy(ish) movie out there that was a huge hit, it had replaced the LotR high fantasy music with more modern tones, it was much darker and moodier, it had oneliners like "this is Sparta" and "then we will fight in the shade", people were covered in blood and biceps.

Now, if you are a brand new IP, would you try to carve out a space (marketing wise) in the Lord of the Rings high fantasy settings (Forgotten Realms, Elder Scrolls, Fable, Ultima, Might and Magic) or would you try to carve out a area where few other games exist?

This game needs to say "This is not WoW, we are not Lord of the Rings" that market is to saturated to grab new consumers. It wants to be the alternate RPG, the Witcher, only with more marketing and with that BioWare storytelling. Will it be that? Maybe not, but marketing it as anything else would be a deathknell for the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You need to define what you mean "ripping off" means. Last I checked, pushing a bunch of guys off a cliff using a shield was not copyrighted by 300. Also, the destinct lack of dragon slaying comes to mind when I recall watching 300.

The visual style, the rock music instead of a rehash of Braveheart soundtrack, and the idea of few against many, yes, those things bring the 300 image to mind.

And you know why it's presented this way? Because of this: http://www.gamespot.com/news/6185476.html and this http://www.gametrailers.com/video/exclusive-e3-dragon-age/36034

When this game was first shown, everyone was down on it for being a Lord of the Rings rippoff. The bellyaching about how played out all that LotR was, and how orcestral music was so last year, and how, while they trusted BioWare, this might have worked in 2002, but not 2008.

So whats the marketing guy to do, well, there was this other fantasy(ish) movie out there that was a huge hit, it had replaced the LotR high fantasy music with more modern tones, it was much darker and moodier, it had oneliners like "this is Sparta" and "then we will fight in the shade", people were covered in blood and biceps.

Now, if you are a brand new IP, would you try to carve out a space (marketing wise) in the Lord of the Rings high fantasy settings (Forgotten Realms, Elder Scrolls, Fable, Ultima, Might and Magic) or would you try to carve out a area where few other games exist?

This game needs to say "This is not WoW, we are not Lord of the Rings" that market is to saturated to grab new consumers. It wants to be the alternate RPG, the Witcher, only with more marketing and with that BioWare storytelling. Will it be that? Maybe not, but marketing it as anything else would be a deathknell for the game.

Not directly copy parts of films and books that have been adapted to the silver screen, it's pretty clear that the sources that this person draws from are not wide. This is where I somewhat agree with the guy on Gameswipe, that they need to draw from more sources, not just films.

The people doing these advertisements need to do something original, games aren't films and thus shouldn't be advertised as them. For example the advert to Halo ODST was great, it showed nothing of the game though, which is either brilliant or stupid, but they have done something new (admittedly on a well known franchise).

You say that these genres are over saturated, but compared to both books and films they aren't. the Use of classical music just fits the atmosphere of it, unlike what the Industrial Metal they have used in trailers. Companies may have better results with different types of music but to me they seem very crass and can almost ruin a game (see prince of persia: warrior within).

If Dragon Age is anything like the trailers I will be pretty disappointed, Bioware can and should do better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Not directly copy parts of films and books that have been adapted to the silver screen, it's pretty clear that the sources that this person draws from are not wide. This is where I somewhat agree with the guy on Gameswipe, that they need to draw from more sources, not just films.

The people doing these advertisements need to do something original, games aren't films and thus shouldn't be advertised as them. For example the advert to Halo ODST was great, it showed nothing of the game though, which is either brilliant or stupid, but they have done something new (admittedly on a well known franchise).

You say that these genres are over saturated, but compared to both books and films they aren't. the Use of classical music just fits the atmosphere of it, unlike what the Industrial Metal they have used in trailers. Companies may have better results with different types of music but to me they seem very crass and can almost ruin a game (see prince of persia: warrior within).

If Dragon Age is anything like the trailers I will be pretty disappointed, Bioware can and should do better.

With IPs like Halo, you can do risky shit, it will sell no matter what. With new IP you can only be so orgininal before it becomes obscure. Dragon Age needs someplace for people to peg it. (If BioWare was as known and trusted as Valve or Blizzard, maybe they could have done it another way)

If you are doing new original stuff, you need familiar stuff for focus. If you are doing generic stuff, you need non-generic stuff for the twist. So for Dragon Age to draw a new audience (and it does to make a profit) you need to show people why this is not the same old RPG stuff they have been giving out for the last 20 years. (It might be the same, but you could never sell a product with that slogan)

While many might have scoffed at Manson used in the trailer, it might have been a poke from the marketing department. After all, that song is about rebranding old shit as new shit, something Dragon Age quite clearly is doing. Dragon Age after all claims to be the spiritual sequal to the original boilerplate model for modern western RPGs, how do you sell something like that? Label it with "Grognard approved!" "Neckbears around the world rejoice".

Look, it is simple, this game needs to sell to a new group of people. BG2 fans alone cannot carry this game. You can complain about being original, about drawing from other sources then movies, about not playing music you like/attach to the mood of the game, but this is new IP, it costs a fortune to make, and it needs a huge install base right of the bat. When you need this you don't fuck around with the formula. When EA/BioWare has already gone out on a limb to make original IP, they should use the old way to sell it, because that works.

*edit in*

You pointed to Warrior Within, but remember, that game sold a LOT better then Sands of Time. If you want to look toward games that did the marketing right, that is one right there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
While many might have scoffed at Manson used in the trailer, it might have been a poke from the marketing department. After all, that song is about rebranding old shit as new shit, something Dragon Age quite clearly is doing. Dragon Age after all claims to be the spiritual sequal to the original boilerplate model for modern western RPGs, how do you sell something like that? Label it with "Grognard approved!" "Neckbears around the world rejoice".

Rebel rebel, party party.

OArNK5iHK-g

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought stabbing the dragon through the head was redundant too. But then I thought, what if the dragon really is this almighty magical being? Right? I mean, it's not gonna die that easily! It might even resurrect itself!

The wicked down-stab of righteousness takes care of all rebelling dragons. So I hear.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I thought stabbing the dragon through the head was redundant too. But then I thought, what if the dragon really is this almighty magical being? Right? I mean, it's not gonna die that easily! It might even resurrect itself!

The wicked down-stab of righteousness takes care of all rebelling dragons. So I hear.

The head stabbing was what sold me once and for all. I have no interest in those wishy-washy RPGs that fail to stab dragons in the head.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So I'm backing up my stuff for a format and install of Win 7 today when I figured I'd save my lame duck character fromt he Dragon Age character creator when I noticed a glimmering hope of light....

The character file is a .chr; which 3dsmax can handle(tried it, it can't, so it must be their own .chr version) and it dawned on me that this is coming with mod tools to actually edit the game, even assets (I assume max will be able to handle it with their proper export tools or whatever)

So now I am super excited since I wasn't really digging that character creation. I just wanted my character to be pushed a little more to have some exagerated characteristics so he doesn't looke like an NPC.

So thought I'd share if anyone felt the same way, so yay, go PC.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seems like a decent bet - Bioware released a G-Max plugin for Neverwinter Nights in the past.

I definitely plan on checking out the toolset. However I need to first buy a new processor for me improved PC, and then save up more money for the game itself. And then choose between the many games I want this winter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yup, it's enough to make me inch towards the PC version. Mods are an awesome thing, if the modders out there will be kind enough to get stuck in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, I think PC is the way to go even without the toolset just from a gameplay and graphics perspective, but mods put it way over the top. Honestly I am not too thrilled with the character creator so hopefully people start working on mods soon after the game is released.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just received my copy in the mail. Wasn't expecting it to be here a day earlier than the release date. :woohoo:Seeing this label on the package made me smile:

picture007ph.jpg

I have never received anything before the street date. Wish I had the time to install and play it tonight though.:blink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Goddamn I just spent my entire evening playing http://www.dragonagejourneys.com/ I need to sleep but I can't save unless I make a stupid EA account - ahhhhhg! If the real game is half as addictive as this flash version, then we're all in trouble.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Where did you order it from? Might have to give them a try next time :)

From the EA store. I don't usually buy stuff from them, but since I wanted to get the collector's edition and couldn't get a preorder from my local retailer, I didn't have a choice.

On another note, I am not impressed by the quality of the cloth map. Guess I was expecting it to be more grandeur.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On another note, I am not impressed by the quality of the cloth map. Guess I was expecting it to be more grandeur.

NOOOOOOOO! That cloth map was my sole motivation to get the collector's edition.

'Course, I preordered from Spun.com and it still says 'backordered', so I might get screwed anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, most people probably already read this(I dunno) but one of the guys from penny arcade posted some backstory, he also says this may be spoiler(I really don't know how though)

My knowledge of the game was "hey it's a generic fantasy looking world, marylin manson music?" And it ended right there until the thumbs talked about it and my back history of giving Bioware the benefit of the doubt. So when I read this it was all new and has gotten me more excited, its like they took a bit of Star Wars, maybe a little of reverse FF7ism and rolled with it.

Again, this may be consinderd spoiler, I don't think so, I haven't used the spoiler tags, its just backstory on the world and magic.

In the game, Lyrium Elixirs of various kinds act as your "Blue Potions," to leverage a bit of Diablo nomenclature. But Lyrium isn't just some word they throw out, some context-appropriate cipher for a gameplay necessity. Lyrium is fundamental to the way the gameworld works. Have you noticed that in the Dragon Age character builder (or Dragon Age: Journeys, for that matter) it's impossible to create a dwarven mage? This has to do with Lyrium.

An ore with mystical properties, trade between the Dwarven and Human kingdoms is practically based on it. Constant dwarven exposure to the substance - the mining, refining, and manufacture of magically augmented weapon, armor, and other goods - has given them a kind of immunity to magic. Not complete, of course - but enough to hinder their manipulation of it, even enough to offer some protection.

It is the charter of the Order of the Templars to police magic use, and containing some blood mage or recalcitrant "free wizard" is their purpose. Every Circle Mage undergoes a test called the Harrowing, which I'd rather not go into, but understand that Templars (multiple Templars) are present to kill these students at the first sign of trouble. As part of their initiation and ongoing rituals, Templars literally eat Lyrium in an effort to gain some measure of the dwarves' resistance. Addiction is the inevitable result - the lyrium isn't being consumed with magic use, and (as dwarves are rare in their ranks) they're not genetically predisposed to manage it. The addiction compounds the paranoia and obsession of a person drawn to the Order.

They're regular people, who with discipline and unswerving piety are charged with a more or less impossible task: to act as a bulwark between conscious beings and the demonic horde that roils in the Fade. They believe that any mage, at any time, could erupt in a fountain of blood and become host to a demon. They believe that people who are unwilling or unable to control their mystic connection to the Fade should have it forcibly stripped from them. They believe children who show even a glimmer of magic potential should be taken from their parents by force and handed over to the Circle. In many ways, in most ways, they are right. A Templar who stays his hand is not - strictly speaking - a Templar.

In game terms, a Templar is an unlockable specialization for Warriors. Who knows what kind of Templar you'll be - you'll meet those who question the way that the order operates. You'll also meet people who don't have a lot of affection for the Order, though I suppose (from a purely technical perspective) you already have.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hang out on the bioware forums from time to time, so a lot of the more itneresting backstory was leaked to the fan community a while ago. It is actually a pretty interesting world, while still remaining epic fantasy. This made the heavy metal trailers all the more galling.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now