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toblix

Forza Motorsport 3

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I'm perfectly happy to PM it to whoever wants it...there's no secrecy. I'd just like to keep it out of Google's cache as much as possible. :)

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I'm perfectly happy to PM it to whoever wants it...there's no secrecy. I'd just like to keep it out of Google's cache as much as possible. :)

...but, that's secrecy then surely?! :erm:

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from the demo Forza 3 feels like Forza 2 + new graphics + features poorly ripped from DiRT

@Cigol: GRID is the most realistic racing game IMO because it has intense physical damage looks like, and does correlates to mechanical/handling damage. Forza needs bumpers to fall off, chassis to get crushed and the like for me to even consider it to be a sim. I understand the physics as far as friction, g force etc is way more detailed in Forza but that is just half of what is needed for a sim.

@Patters: Forza 3 has a EXTREMELY bare bones damage system, im just glad this game recognizes 3d space correctly and dosent treat the cars like slot cars like Forza 2 did. NFS Shift is also one of the worst racing games i have played, like ever.

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from the demo Forza 3 feels like Forza 2 + new graphics + features poorly ripped from DiRT

@Cigol: GRID is the most realistic racing game IMO because it has intense physical damage looks like, and does correlates to mechanical/handling damage. Forza needs bumpers to fall off, chassis to get crushed and the like for me to even consider it to be a sim. I understand the physics as far as friction, g force etc is way more detailed in Forza but that is just half of what is needed for a sim.

@Patters: Forza 3 has a EXTREMELY bare bones damage system, im just glad this game recognizes 3d space correctly and dosent treat the cars like slot cars like Forza 2 did. NFS Shift is also one of the worst racing games i have played, like ever.

Really you think grid is the most realistic Racing game? One which encourages you to crash and is intrinsically an Arcade racer. With a damage engine which is exaggerated far too much, which is less noticeable on the touring cars (as they have a tendency to fall apart if you look at them) but other cars are much less likely to fall apart because of a slight collision.

Also did I ever say that the Damage modelling in Forza 3 wasn't 'barebones' I said it looks cool, if you have a small collision it leaves paint deterioration which looks really fantastic opposed to the paint deterioration in Grid.

With Respect to shift I had only used the BMW 135i, when I posted previously, which handles like a real car, unlike those which are faster. It's pretty clear that EA made the Developer (slightly mad studios) ship the game before it's finished to get it out before Forza 3, so hopefully they will release a Patch to combat it. A lot of the features in the game are excellent with a Fuckton of glitches preventing it form being a great game. If you truly believe that it's the worst driving game you have played you haven't played many Driving games.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that there has been a set of options which helps the handlng a lot, it's still a little off but better http://forums.xbox.com/1/29123795/ShowPost.aspx#29123795.

Edited by Patters

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I'm not sure if "damage" and "cosmetic" are being jumbled up here.

While Forza 2's cosmetic damage model is fairly linear, it's physical damage modelling is fantastic. I can't think of another racing game I've played that models surfaces, grip, cambers, weight shifts - all that stuff - as well or in such an immediate and tactile way as Forza 2 does. Including when things go horribly wrong and the resultant handling afterwards.

Does the fact that bumpers don't fall off in Gran Tourismo (to date) make it a bad racing game? Of course not. However, being able to use the crash barriers to spam the physics and so slingshot into the lead in e.g. GT2 definitely is shit.

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While Forza 2's cosmetic damage model is fairly linear, it's physical damage modelling is fantastic. I can't think of another racing game I've played that models surfaces, grip, cambers, weight shifts - all that stuff - as well or in such an immediate and tactile way as Forza 2 does. Including when things go horribly wrong and the resultant handling afterwards.

You say that but to me the damage boils down to lower top speed, crap gear change and the steering pulls. That seems to happen no matter what so of crash you get in

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So I played the demo some last night and still am going to buy Forza 3, though I was a little dissapointed. When I set it up I turned off all the assists, except I kept the transmission to automatic. And I think I set up the driver AI to medium. I found the head-look controls a little weird, how you have to press up on the right stick to move your head and otherwise you just switch camera views. That didn't feel so nice. My other two complaints had to do with the engine sounds and road feel. I feel like the engine even at max revs sounded like I wasn't Full-throttling it. While I got a sense of the weight and size of the cars, I never felt like I was going really fast, even in that porshe racing car.

I'll get the game, for the sheer number of cars available and the customization, but I'm left feeling a little like this one could have been better. Maybe the demo will be blown away by the full release?

Oh and on a positive side, the first time I played I got this mild suspension damage and knocked my car out of alignment. There was no sudden violent jerk-to-the-side damage, but my car had a subtle drift in it. That was cool.

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I downloaded the demo, which was pretty and had a cool Braid do-over mechanic. As for the handling, I don't know how you guys can detect all these subtle nuances. I just press the right trigger and let go if it seems I'm going too fast to make the curve.

Anyway, if there's going to be regular/semi-regular multiplayer sessions of this, I'm getting it.

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Anyway, if there's going to be regular/semi-regular multiplayer sessions of this, I'm getting it.

That's what I'm hoping for. :yep:

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That's what I'm hoping for. :yep:

I'm up for it too, I would suggest doing it with cosmetic damage only, knowing how I will likely wreck every car on the track.

I really like the game, it's fucking awesome.

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I'm up for it too, I would suggest doing it with cosmetic damage only, knowing how I will likely wreck every car on the track.

I really like the game, it's fucking awesome.

In any case I'll play regular multi-player. But I suggest full damage, because it will be funner to play demolition derby when we get bored that way.

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That spreadsheet any good still? Or is it baws?

I'm not sure the demo doesn't seem to let me do any adjusting. I won't find out until the full release comes out. I looked over it and I'm pretty sure it will still work since its basically a bunch of physics and engineering calculations applied to a video game.

Oh- and as far as response and pacing goes, try this:

A) Go drive your car at something like 80 mph (on a highway preferably)

Then go drive one of the Forza 3 cars at 80. You should feel way slower in-game. While you're out in real life if you get a moment where there aren't alot of cars around juke the car left and right (if it is safe to do so in your car) Do the same thing in Forza and I think you'll find the response also muted and slower.

To be fair more simulation style games tend to be slowed down because if it were at a more "full" speed, chances are you would find the game impossibly difficult and the tax it puts on your reflexes a little high.

Also note how little the wheel moves left and right at full-turn. Seems not enough to me.

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I'm not sure the demo doesn't seem to let me do any adjusting. I won't find out until the full release comes out. I looked over it and I'm pretty sure it will still work since its basically a bunch of physics and engineering calculations applied to a video game.

Oh- and as far as response and pacing goes, try this:

A) Go drive your car at something like 80 mph (on a highway preferably)

Then go drive one of the Forza 3 cars at 80. You should feel way slower in-game. While you're out in real life if you get a moment where there aren't alot of cars around juke the car left and right (if it is safe to do so in your car) Do the same thing in Forza and I think you'll find the response also muted and slower.

To be fair more simulation style games tend to be slowed down because if it were at a more "full" speed, chances are you would find the game impossibly difficult and the tax it puts on your reflexes a little high.

Also note how little the wheel moves left and right at full-turn. Seems not enough to me.

Yeah that's one f the reasons I haven't bothered with any sim games before, they just don't feel fast, Forza 3 does seem to be better than the others though, the camera isn't always perfectly focused etc.

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turning radius is one of the most exaggerated things in racing games. In most games the cars can barely make turns sharper than a couple degrees. Race Pro is probably the worst offender of this.

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Sense of speed is mostly physical. I've driven a sports car and SUV at fast speeds and done the same test and found that if you focused on the environment ahead you quickly notice how 'slow' you are going. It compares very favourably with the visual representations of simulations on both PC and console.

The big differences between reality and game, are in the physicality of the car your driving. So for example the SUV is heavier, larger, and your position is much higher. These are all things you can physically sense and when it's combined with the fact it can't corner for shit, and is sluggish in everything it does you get a real sense for what it can and can't do. The sports car on the other hand is much smaller, lighter and has a lower point of view. You can almost feel the bottom of the road underneath you and when you accelerate - where in the SUV it's like waiting for a bus - in the sports car you're subjected to various forces, your head is maybe snapped back, and you can feel the speed. It's not just visual. It's mostly physical. You're both going the same speed (the SUV and the sports car) but the big difference is in the physical aspects.

Here's GT5p F1 vs real F1;

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The F1 in the game is extremely poor in terms of physics - so I'm not bigging up GT here - but you can see the visual representation of speed is not that bad at all - even though of all the games GT5p is often the one cited as the worst in terms of 'sense of speed'.

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Ugh. I don't have a gig of free space. Motherfucking MS with their 20GB hard drives and ridiculously expensive upgrades. I really want to try this damn thing.

erm Should have mentioned this earlier but you sorta have to install parts of forza 3 (as far as I understand).

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Played the demo a few times last week and I have to say I found it slightly disappointing. Speed sensitive input seems to have noticeably numbed the controls to me, but the actual driving didn't seem slower, and the car still does everything you expect - and want! - it to. So more of a mental adjustment than anything else I guess. :getmecoat

I loved the slick new presentation, though. Definitely the right direction to take the game. And the demo track was still a lot of fun, even with the subtle changes in handling. I just liked the twitchiness of the second game and enjoyed scrubbing around the front tyres through corners--you knew you were on the ragged edge more immediately then.

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I haven't checked out the demo yet, but I just randomly decided to pick up Forza 2 off my shelf the other day. I've never really been interested in the simulation-style racing games, so I didn't expect much. Almost three hours later, I'm practically sold on Forza 3 without having seen much more than its trailer.

Just today I've taken a little bit of a dip into the decal customization system and it's just so impressive and addictive. This series seems ridiculously appropriate for perfectionists/completionists, so I'm a small step away from pushing the preorder button on Amazon.

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I'm not a huge realism/sim racing buff but I tried the demos for both NFS Shift and Forza 3 and I liked Forza a lot better for reasons I'm not really able to quantify. I may just hold out for GT5 though. It has rallycross cars which, as far as I know, the other two don't.

Also ditto the poster upthread who mentioned loathing the super long (e.g. 10 laps) races in Forza 2. Realism/whatever be damned, when you've already held the lead for 2 laps, to make you keep doing it for 8 more isn't a test of skill, it's a test of your patience. It's enough to make a man welcome agressive rubberbanding.

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Also ditto the poster upthread who mentioned loathing the super long (e.g. 10 laps) races in Forza 2. Realism/whatever be damned, when you've already held the lead for 2 laps, to make you keep doing it for 8 more isn't a test of skill, it's a test of your patience. It's enough to make a man welcome agressive rubberbanding.

Personally, I'd consider that more of a test of skill than e.g. barging your way to the front in the first lap, then weaving all over the place to protect your spot. But I'm not saying that's how you, personally, must be playing the game--this isn't an attack or a dismissal.

What I'm saying is I actually find the longer races incredibly nerve-racking, but in a different way to the shorter, cup-style racing. While the latter's typically an exhilarating sprint from start to finish, the former's a true test of race craft for me (assuming the track's interesting and the competition's good).

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What I'm saying is I actually find the longer races incredibly nerve-racking, but in a different way to the shorter, cup-style racing. While the latter's typically an exhilarating sprint from start to finish, the former's a true test of race craft for me (assuming the track's interesting and the competition's good).

I actually agree - I've recently got to the stage where some races are > 5 laps and it makes me incredibly nervous. Pushing myself to the front of the pack is the easy part, making sure I keep that spot is harder. Mostly, I just sometimes get far too comfortable with the track and totally wipe out at some point, so I think it's less a test of patience and more a test of determination. That may be a granular comparison, but it was enough for me to enjoy it.

There's also a little bit of that "hey, I really want to master this track" so you get into that cycle where shaving half a second off is actually incredibly rewarding when you're in the eighth lap of a ten lap race. For a perfectionist who hasn't previously been too interested in simulation racers (me), this is the lynch-pin to keeping my mind in it.

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A good race is more than half-an-hour, not less... making tyre wear, fuel and pit-stop strategy all important. To hell with you console lightweights that lead exciting real lives.

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Personally, I'd consider that more of a test of skill than e.g. barging your way to the front in the first lap, then weaving all over the place to protect your spot. But I'm not saying that's how you, personally, must be playing the game--this isn't an attack or a dismissal.

No, that's totally fair. I'm not very good at the realism/sim type racing games and do basically "barge my way to the front." It's not strictly the length I mind, I guess, but the repetitiveness of it. I'd rather do half as many laps of a course twice as long, for instance.

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