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Paid avatar clothing.... sigh.

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Well we all knew it was coming, most of the announced game related content is from Microsoft, apart from that from Lucasarts (yep they still want to make more moneys) barstardising Monkey Island even more. I really don't like the concept of this, but I can see why they are doing it (money), I suppose it may be fun to play the upcoming Joyride kart racer as LeChuck... but to pay extra to do so, nope...

http://www.destructoid.com/what-you-can-buy-for-your-avatar-and-how-much-it-ll-cost-141186.phtml

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Is this "next gen?" Paying for polygonal clothes?

This is just about as useful as paying real monies for those icon gifts on Facebook. I don't even want to acknowledge that Monkey Island is in on this. I'm sure someone might possibly come along and tell me to "wipe off my dirty diapers because I am a grumpy grandpa" or something along those lines, but this feels wrong. Just hoping more that this sort of thing doesn't catch on with a general gaming audience.

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Your interest in micropayments proves boring to Kevin.

Now you have dropped in Kevin's esteem.

Kevin asks you what you're interested in these days. You say that you're pretty interested in micropayments.

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I remember being quite baffled when, many years ago, I found out that people were willing to pay for furniture in Habbo Hotel. Seems to be working still.

On the other hand, this is my favourite kind of DLC - completely useless.

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I remember being quite baffled when, many years ago, I found out that people were willing to pay for furniture in Habbo Hotel. Seems to be working still.

I remember running around the Hotel with friends in high school trying really hard to scam people out of their furniture.

The problem was that it turned out almost everyone else was doing the same thing. So you would have shady characters saying, "You want furniture? Come to this secret room..." and you get there and the guy is asking you if you know where to score some Habbo money to buy a lamp.

Then I blocked the floor to the disco and got banned for 24 hours.

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I pretty much ignore my avatar, but I heard some games will have the decency to give clothing through the game, like an unlockable feature...

Which is a much better idea, right? :erm:

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I've spent so little time screwing with the avatar that I don't even know: Does it ever "do" anything other than when you log in or see your friends? It's not like the Wii's "Mi's" (Me's? Mii's? ... fucking Nintendo) that can actually show up in games.

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Meh some fucker 'll come along and as always go "You don't have to buy them if you don't want to."

And you'll probably retort "I would like good developpers to spend their time doing other stuff"

He'll go "As long as people buy them, people will sell them"

You will then realize that, thanks to today's market economy, the sad "that's the way the world is and you can do nothing about it" moto reached video games, a imaginary world, in which anything could be done but is not, and feel like shit.

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You will then realize that, thanks to today's market economy, the sad "that's the way the world is and you can do nothing about it" moto reached video games, a imaginary world, in which anything could be done but is not, and feel like shit.

:blink:

;(

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I've spent so little time screwing with the avatar that I don't even know: Does it ever "do" anything other than when you log in or see your friends? It's not like the Wii's "Mi's" (Me's? Mii's? ... fucking Nintendo) that can actually show up in games.

They can show up in games -- Joyride is a racer that will use them, and there are already some other games. There's a whole category for "avatar games." And of course 1 vs. 100 uses them.

I really like the idea of unlocking stuff along with achievements, because then you actually have a (somewhat real) reason to go for the tough achievements (e.g., if I could unlock a Rock Band drumkit for my avatar). But paying for this shit? If they were 25 cents per shirt, that would be okay, it would basically be paying for someone to add the new stuff in. But there was a suit for THREE BUCKS, and a giant Qtip for $2. Hell no.

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I really like the idea of unlocking stuff along with achievements, because then you actually have a (somewhat real) reason to go for the tough achievements (e.g., if I could unlock a Rock Band drumkit for my avatar). But paying for this shit? If they were 25 cents per shirt, that would be okay, it would basically be paying for someone to add the new stuff in. But there was a suit for THREE BUCKS, and a giant Qtip for $2. Hell no.

I agree with this. It would especially make getting achievements more worth it.

But then as OssK said:

Meh some fucker 'll come along and as always go "You don't have to buy them if you don't want to."

And you'll probably retort "I would like good developpers to spend their time doing other stuff"

He'll go "As long as people buy them, people will sell them"

I think I love OssK.

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Meh some fucker 'll come along and as always go "You don't have to buy them if you don't want to."

And you'll probably retort "I would like good developpers to spend their time doing other stuff"

He'll then make a sarcastic comment about Rare.

Is that what you meant?

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I think I love OssK.

:chaste:

He'll then make a sarcastic comment about Rare.

Conker Bad Fur day was really a piece of gaming.

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Some of it will be free and you aren't obligated to buy any of it.

Christ.

Meh some fucker 'll come along and as always go "You don't have to buy them if you don't want to."

Fuck off? Yes, fuck off. Should people stop selling dolls and action figures because you personally consider them a waste of time or money? Some people like spending money on dressing up playthings and fictional characters.

And you'll probably retort "I would like good developpers to spend their time doing other stuff"

Double fuck off. Be more presumptuous, why don't you? I love it when forums decide what is and isn't something a developer should be spending their time on, especially when it's related to marketing or ancillary products (most of which are outsourced or done by a wholly separate department from core development -- and most of which can have a huge impact on the profitability of the game). Whenever Valve puts out a Team Fortress "Meet the Class" video, some douchebag always posts saying "make less of these and spend more time on the game plz thx" and I want to reach through the Internet and strangle them.

He'll go "As long as people buy them, people will sell them"

You will then realize that, thanks to today's market economy, the sad "that's the way the world is and you can do nothing about it" moto reached video games, a imaginary world, in which anything could be done but is not, and feel like shit.

"People want to buy something, so someone is offering that service." How dare they. How dare they.

There is bullshit DLC out there, and avatar clothing charts very low on my personal list of things which are cool about games, but some people genuinely do like it and see it as a way to express themselves online (and some of those people don't mind paying money for it). I don't get the hate for it, especially the overreaching mom-style wrist slap of "I think this is bad so I want to take it away from everyone."

I work for a pretty small (but growing) independent developer. I haven't looked at the XDK stuff for the avatar store, but if it was truly quick and cheap to put content up there which would generate potential hundreds or thousands of extra dollars in revenue which we could funnel back into making better games, why would that be bad? I don't get it. (Also, people could start wearing Max's head for a hat in the SceneIt games, which is a bonus plus.)

Edited by Jake

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Christ.

You can call him by his first name I heard he's ok with it.

Fuck off? Yes, fuck off. Should people stop selling dolls and action figures because you personally consider them a waste of time or money? Some people like spending money on dressing up playthings and fictional characters.
Double fuck off. Be more presumptuous, why don't you? I love it when forums decide what is and isn't something a developer should be spending their time on, especially when it's related to marketing or ancillary products (most of which are outsourced or done by a wholly separate department from core development -- and most of which can have a huge impact on the profitability of the game). Whenever Valve puts out a Team Fortress "Meet the Class" video, some douchebag always posts saying "make less of these and spend more time on the game plz thx" and I want to reach through the Internet and strangle them.

I am not a forum, I am merely a person, remarking that my only pretention here is to state that I believe mankind can move forward through games, through gaming, that we can learn and be moved by strong emotions through the use or repeated use of that media.

What I feel is good in games, what I feel to be important in games is only an expression of my own desire for us not to waste the little time we have on this planet, therefore, the use of time to produce things that will be short lived or to put effort on virtual objets which will only please people (even with a depth that might surprise them) for a short time. This money, once consumed will only prove to those who are just in games to make money and don't care about their quality that it works.

I don't say that buying them is reprehensible...

What is (and let me stress that this part is only and again the expression of my opinion) is that people do not know how to make games,. It reminds me of something, bear with me please a few more seconds : when I was younger I used to repair computer and would feel saddened by not being able to fix one. I would, therefore, ask for no money. No, not at all, not one penny and refuse any that would be offered to me.

Then, I grew up, realized that you don't have to talk to people, to explain to them what went wrong, and how to fix it in case it goes wrong again, just come in, fix the thing, preferably while people are not watching and when it happens the next time, you'll be paid again.

What would you feel when you're 16 and you suddenly realize that your best interest is to only do what you're paid for ? Well, I stopped, literally. I never answered the phone again, I was the coolest kid of my school and had plenty of money, but could not bear the dilemma. I had repaired computer in 187 households in Ile-de-France. I still receive calls sometimes but don't have enough time on my hands so I don't do much, I fix them on the phone mostly.

To me, it's the same thing here, you don't have to be generous as long as people don't know what they are missing, just give them crap gaming, crap entertainment, crap stuff all over the place, and you can be pretty sure that you'll dramatically decrease the number of people that will go to actually see exhibitions and good movies or eat good food. Short lived pleasure is enough.

Video games don't have to be worth as much as a museum, but at least they could be worth more than Terminator Renaissance or Fifty Cents Blood on the Sand. What if people like to play these games ? Well, if people don't know that there are better games, if they don't want to know, if the world is just as good as it gets to you, then my sentences won't mean a thing to you.

A friend and I have this emission that was mentioned here I guess, Bons Baisers d'un Gamer (which is in french). In episode 2 we talked about the value of video games, our idea was that you put time and attention in a video game, you escape to this other side of the screen, and when a video game is profitable, it goes back to you. Ico, without me knowing it, had me thinking to my love live, Braid had me reflect on the definition of beauty, Monkey Island was full of dreams and fantasies, Starcraft had me thinking of what geopolitics would be in space....

You could say every game sends you something, and it would probably be right but there are remanent things, there are important things and there are thoughts that just vanish...

What is the aim of Fifty Cents BotS ? To have you spend time on it. That's it, the game doesn't give the time back in another scale of value because it does not have to.

Train humans to feel, to think, to perceive new things and you'll change the world. Micropaid clothing is not a way to do this, and if small companies can earn money with it to make great games, that's cool... They could also be making game straight away.

"People want to buy something, so someone is offering that service." How dare they. How dare they.

Again, my feeling is the same here, I think that you are inverting the roles. If you had asked people ten years ago if they would put money in virtual clothes they would've said no probably, because they were not sucked into those environments... People deliberately created (and don't laugh and call me a conspiracy tenant) these to make a market and make a lot of money out of a two hour work. Those who know create the need into those who'll need.

There is bullshit DLC out there, and avatar clothing charts very low on my personal list of things which are cool about games, but some people genuinely do like it and see it as a way to express themselves online (and some of those people don't mind paying money for it). I don't get the hate for it, especially the overreaching mom-style wrist slap of "I think this is bad so I want to take it away from everyone."

I could slap you on the wrist right and tell you that freedom's a cool concept but really, those who know should not try and profit from those who don't, that's honesty and ethics. In fact, freedom is not defined by laws, what you cannot do does not tell you what you can do. Why am I even telling you that ? You know it as much as I do...

I work for a pretty small (but growing) independent developer. I haven't looked at the XDK stuff for the avatar store, but if it was truly quick and cheap to put content up there which would generate potential hundreds or thousands of extra dollars in revenue which we could funnel back into making better games, why would that be bad? I don't get it. (Also, people could start wearing Max's head for a hat in the SceneIt games, which is a bonus plus.)

You know what ? I'll tell you what people told me that I could make more money in less time : that's good, but you should improve it, people don't really know, you shouldn't bother yourself making good games, just make one with Sam and Max on the box, it'll probably sell a bit less but in the same time you could make ten games like these...

(I know that they are episodic just crossing the reference here).

To me, virtual clothes are like horoscopes : yeah, there are people that can be abused, why not do it... I know I am using a strong word here, but using the suspension of disbelief to earn money is in my opinion dishonest.

Footnote to comprehension, there are no fucks, no bitch, no fucking in my text because I feel very sad right know, I am only trying to use logic and reason. I hope that it will not come across as aggressive, english not being my maternal language.

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I had a lot to write but it's not coming back now that I sit down to type it. For what it's worth, I'm sorry that I was a jerk in my post. I make my living creating video games at a place which is surprisingly commercial -- I imagine the reality of the situation for most who make games for their job is similar to mine -- and that reality sometimes exists in very harsh contrast to the ideas we all hold and think about and internalize as what's great about games and gaming as a medium. It's sometimes mind-numbingly frustrating, especially when those lines get blurry.

There's probably more to say but it might be wishy washy and me rationalizing things I don't really want to have to rationalize or try to explain on a web forum because they're blurry and lame. If I ever meet you in person we can hang out and talk about awesome things.

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Where's the hate for PS Home in this thread? :getmecoat

OssK, I see your point, but you're being very black and white about it. Yes, there is money-making shit in the games industry. There is money making shit in every other industry, too. Things spread out into cultural spectrums, they don't migrate toward cultural ideals.

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I find myself always overreacting when some stuff is released that's related to a game I like, but not exactly what I want. For example, these Monkey Island shirts, MM making tons of costumes, etc. Instantly I think "Oh, those idiots! Why are they wasting their time making A when I want B?" which, as Jake pointed out, is stupid because

  • More often than not, the people who would make A (costumes) are probably not spending any time making B (levels)
  • Even if they are, it's a rational decision made by people who know what they are doing. They actually need to make money and promote their shit, and they've decided, spending much more time than I have, knowing much more than I do, that this is the best way for them to accomplish this.

So, in summation: I still think Xbox avatars are stupid, but I can completely appreciate that it may be a great platform for promotion and making the money. Also, nobody owes me shit, so I should just shut my fat fucking mouth.

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I want to put forward my opinions on this properly, I do not hate all content such as this, i.e. xbox themes, gamerpics, avatar clothing, whatever the MMO/ PS home equivalent is. I have bought 2 NXE themes which are fairly expensive, however they let you customise the dashboard the price is usually the equivalent of $3/£2. However, $4 for a remote control warthog, seems a little steep to me, I doubt avatar supported games will support this sort of accessory; if it were $2 it would seem a lot better. A dollar for a shirt isn't so bad. Although I hope more companies use a system similar to that implemented by twisted pixel on both The Maw and Splosion Man: where by completing sections of the game unlock 3 items, 2 of which are gamer picures and the 3rd is an NXE theme. Game unlocks are the main thing for me, unlocking sams hat and suit for completing sam and max season 2 would be excellent, paying $6 or more for just that is not so.

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I imagine the reality of the situation for most who make games for their job is similar to mine -- and that reality sometimes exists in very harsh contrast to the ideas we all hold and think about and internalize as what's great about games and gaming as a medium.

Reality exists, the thing is, when making a game, at the beginning there is plenty of space to reinvent a lot of things, do you speak french Jake ? I'd gladly send you a few DDs I made if you want to.

But all in all, the funny thing is marketing people don't know shit about games either...

Also, nobody owes me shit, so I should just shut my fat fucking mouth.

I am not aware of us owing anything to one another but if you are providing the things I pay for, I can tell you the way I would prefer them to be, no orders, no strings attached, asking for things to be right, reasoning on how things would be better is not tied to anything.

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If I ever meet you in person we can hang out and talk about awesome things.

And I would really like that.

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Jeez Louise, is it really that much of a stretch to see why this kind of money making downloadable content would bother some people?

Also I collect too many action figures (yeah, I know it's lame), which there is also a very definitive science to try to buy from the best companies and get quality toys for your money, since they all pretty much end up costing $15 from everyone per figure anyways.

Cheap variants and small changes meant to take advantage of the "must have it all" action figure collector can also really hurt a company. Palisade Toys, if anyone followed them, had suffered from this and many think that is one of the many reasons the company went out of business.

Just because something makes money for someone short term, like LucasArts' new Monkey Island clothes, doesn't necessarily make it a great idea. Does a cheap cash-in such as this hurt the brand in the long run or will gamers not care and those who want will buy? You could argue both ways. (I don't really want to much past this post because I'm in no position to.)

I make my living creating video games at a place which is surprisingly commercial -- I imagine the reality of the situation for most who make games for their job is similar to mine -- and that reality sometimes exists in very harsh contrast to the ideas we all hold and think about and internalize as what's great about games and gaming as a medium. It's sometimes mind-numbingly frustrating, especially when those lines get blurry.

This may be my own ideal of Telltale as a company, but they have never seemed like a company that is overly commercial where sales necessarily take a priority over content. Telltale has much less of the Call of Duty Night Vision goggles extreme type capitalism to more of one which will play fair.

What I'm going to type following this sentence will be completely presumptuous.

For instance, sometimes Telltale seems to go out of it's way to avoid an easy way to make money such as when I get a free episode from a promotion or something and it discounts the cost to buy a whole series.

The case file content for each Sam and Max series was awesome, but I can't help but wonder if the $5 each person paid actually covered that stuff.

The DVDs you get at the end of a series are also "free," with the customer only having to cover shipping costs, so essentially it feels like you are getting a full boxed game with 20 hours of gameplay at the end of a series for a steal at $35 instead of the usual $50-60. This is great to me, but I feel sort of like I'm stealing... I don't know.

Although, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying any of this is bad or not thought through, since I don't even work there or follow sales figures or know how to run video game company, I'm just a customer. And I do love how Telltale treats its customers. All of these little "gifts" probably increases brand loyalty a thousand fold and equals more money in the long run, so maybe that's the major part of what makes Telltale so commercial that I don't understand. I know that feeling, because when a company makes you love them, you almost want to start just donating money.

I mean if Ubisoft were a small company that made downloadable episodes, I imagine they wouldn't treat anyone this nice.

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Some of it will be free and you aren't obligated to buy any of it.

Christ.

Fuck off? Yes, fuck off. Should people stop selling dolls and action figures because you personally consider them a waste of time or money? {ETC...}

Jake, you're my hero in so many ways. You should write more, I didn't realize it, but you have a distinctive voice prose-wise, and I like it.

I keep fucking up the quote-thingy in this post, but I'm not gonna bother fixing it.

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