Tales of Monkey Island

[ThunderPeel2001]

The death scenes in chapter four were brilliant. The

Morgan

one is a little awkward on a second playthrough.

No, it was a little awkward on first playthrough... and exchange awkward for "hopelessly amateurish and ineffective". Sorry, I guess it's pretty obvious what I thought of that scene, but regardless of how bad you thought it was, it certainly wasn't up to the usual TellTale standards.

[Jake]

In regards specifically to blood: Putting blood in never came up, to be honest. Does blood equal drama? Would blood have made the scene work for you? I think if it had been there, peoples response when watching the scene would have been a distracted "blood! Bloodbloodblood" instead of just seeing the events. It means that what happens on screen is more representative and less literal/realistic, but that far into this particular MI game I think it would have been a stylistic clash. Not saying I wouldn't want a MI game where a little blood on a sword would be tonally/aesthetically appropriate, i just think Tales was well down a road where (for most people playing -- not you obviously) it would be more distracting and out of place than not.

There is blood in the Genesis version, however.

[Thyroid]

Am I wrong about the ratings thing, though? I could swear you mentioned it on the Telltale forums.

[Jake]

I don't think we cared if the game went up to T, for instance. I'm surprised it didn't, just for drinking and smoking and calling people foul names and that sort of generally mom-wrankling behavior, but what do I know about ratings. I think people on the TTG forums were asking for blood hose out of Guybrush's arm when he loses his hand and things. Can't remember.

[ThunderPeel2001]

In regards specifically to blood: Putting blood in never came up, to be honest. Does blood equal drama? Would blood have made the scene work for you? I think if it had been there, peoples response when watching the scene would have been a distracted "blood! Bloodbloodblood" instead of just seeing the events. It means that what happens on screen is more representative and less literal/realistic, but that far into this particular MI game I think it would have been a stylistic clash. Not saying I wouldn't want a MI game where a little blood on a sword would be tonally/aesthetically appropriate, i just think Tales was well down a road where (for most people playing -- not you obviously) it would be more distracting and out of place than not.

No, it was just one of the many things in that scene that didn't work: The sword coming "out" of the character and being pristine just felt confusing and jarring. Also, Guybrush mentions the floor being covered in blood (if memory serves), but it clearly wasn't. I actually don't know if having blood would work or not... it doesn't seem very Monkey Island-ish, but then again, we've never had a death in MI before, either.

I think the fact that most people thought that the character wasn't actually dead is a pretty clear sign that things didn't work. There was a ton of drama that could have been milked from that scene, seeing how they were actually dead, but it felt like a badly done fake-out.

[Thyroid]

They saved it from being boring and generic by giving Guybrush a little moment where he thinks he's all James Bond.

I'm interested in knowing what you'd have done differently. I know the feeling - it literally happens in every game I play, movie I watch or book I read: the "I'd have done this like that" feeling. Care to satisfy my curiosity?

[ThunderPeel2001]

They saved it from being boring and generic by giving Guybrush a little moment where he thinks he's all James Bond.

I'm interested in knowing what you'd have done differently. I know the feeling - it literally happens in every game I play, movie I watch or book I read: the "I'd have done this like that" feeling. Care to satisfy my curiosity?

I've actually already answered that question in the link above... but I don't think you'd like my answer.

Well, I watched it again,

, and it works better than I remember, which might mean that it just didn't sit well (for me) in the context of the story, but it's still not as good as this.

Edit: I think it was more of a case of being so blown away by other aspects of the series that this bit (which could have really been a highlight across all the episodes) was just very generic. A bit like Kirk's death in Star Trek 7.

Edited January 3, 2010 by ThunderPeel2001

[Thyroid]

But Morgan's death scene had to be handled differently. Sure, both Lola and Morgan die in similar circumstances, and as characters they're sampled off the same template, but that's the exact reason you're going to have to do a 180 degree flip on it. You need to make sure the player is completely concentrated on Morgan, and not thinking of Lola at all. It's like having a war movie where the hot heroine dies, and the sad scene is ruined because she also happens to have a nipple poking out, and all we can think of is the nipple. Know what I mean?

I agree that this scene could have been handled better, but alluding to or being inspired by Grim Fandango is probably a bad idea.

You should also keep in mind that Schafer worked on Grim for 3, maybe 4, years, whereas Stemmle had a few months to whip Chapter Four into shape. Once again, I blame Telltale's damn production schedule, though I say this with complete ignorance.

[ThunderPeel2001]

But Morgan's death scene had to be handled differently. Sure, both Lola and Morgan die in similar circumstances, and as characters they're sampled off the same template, but that's the exact reason you're going to have to do a 180 degree flip on it. You need to make sure the player is completely concentrated on , and not thinking of at all. It's like having a war movie where the hot heroine dies, and the sad scene is ruined because she also happens to have a nipple poking out, and all we can think of is the nipple. Know what I mean?

I agree that this scene could have been handled better, but alluding to or being inspired by Grim Fandango is probably a bad idea.

You should also keep in mind that Schafer worked on Grim for 3, maybe 4, years, whereas Stemmle had a few months to whip Chapter Four into shape. Once again, I blame Telltale's damn production schedule, though I say this with complete ignorance.

That wasn't my suggestion for how I'd improve things, it was just an example of a game doing exactly the same scene, with the same tone, much better.

[syntheticgerbil]

There is blood in the Genesis version, however.

YES! YES! YES!

[MrHoatzin]

The no blood thing in both death scenes was distracting and made it seem like a puppet show. Ultimately, tho, I feel it was weird but not ungood.

=>

Also, they should include blood in the next season of TMI, if for no other reason, so that they can include it in the bullet list of awesome new features the new season includes over the previous one:

NEW SEASON will contain:

• Less retarded inventory wrangling!
• Realistically rendered gore with scab action!
• Unrealistically rendered geysers of blood that decal the environment and splatter all over the fourth wall!
• Guybrush now has a dapper peg leg and a saucy pet parrot that will disappear at the end of the season, since we too—like the two teams before us—are afraid of doing meaningful things to the nature of the property*!
• White Whales with realistic obsession-generating powers!

__________________

* The only longer-felt addition to the MI story since MI2 is the new dynamics of their married life. The marriage was a dumb addition anyway, though it was far better handled in TMI than EMI before it.

[ThunderPeel2001]

So I finally finished it. (I took my time.) I have to say that, despite my reservations, I really enjoyed it. The final "lonely" bit was really atmospheric, too (I wonder if anyone loaded an old save at that point, thinking they'd done something wrong?).

It is a shame that nothing permanent/challenging/exciting was done to the universe, I do think that TT have a tremendous opportunity to take decade's worth of familiarity and really twist it into something even better than came before. Yes, better, because they can build on things in a way you couldn't have done in 1996. Plus, the the original generation of MI fans are no longer 12, but are now actually in their 20s/30s, so we've got a taste for something with a little more meat. (I'm not talking War and Peace here, I just mean being a bit braver to mix it up a little, and add more drama.)

In all, it was a great finale to a great series.

And for my predictions?

• Morgan LeFlay won't really be dead by the end of the series...
  
• Elaine and Guybrush end up happily together...
  
• The Voodoo Lady isn't really evil... ("it's all true, from a certain point of view")
  
• LeChuck IS really evil, but won't be destroyed...
  
• Jacques the monkey and Stan will both be in the final "party" shot at the end of the game...
  

Bonus prediction:

• Guybrush will have his hand magically re-attached...
  

5

out of 6 -

with a potential for 4, if the post credits scene is taken at face value

[toblix]

So, has a season two been announced? I really hate not knowing how well games are doing.

With the S&M thing at the end it sort of seemed to me they would be doing alternating seasons of S&M and TOMI?

Also, whatever they do next, Jake should direct that shit. Thinking back on TOMI, the opening of the final episode really stands out as something special. It captured my favourite aspect of the MI games, the darker, lonelier stuff from the first two games, like the graveyards and the Steamin' Weenie Hut.

[ThunderPeel2001]

So, has a season two been announced? I really hate not knowing how well games are doing.

With the S&M thing at the end it sort of seemed to me they would be doing alternating seasons of S&M and TOMI?

Also, whatever they do next, Jake should direct that shit. Thinking back on TOMI, the opening of the final episode really stands out as something special. It captured my favourite aspect of the MI games, the darker, lonelier stuff from the first two games, like the graveyards and the Steamin' Weenie Hut.

Ahh, that Rap Scallion scene always got me.

No idea about Season 2, but I think you can take it as read that there is definitely going to be one. I mean, this has been their most successful series.

[ThunderPeel2001]

The episodes themselves don't blend together particularly well. Taken individually, Episodes 3 and 5 stand out as remarkably better than the others. Episode 4 is particularly weak - it almost gives the impression that it was structured the way it was merely to set up Episode 5. They also don't feel like they're telling the same story. DeSinge is built up as the villain, then killed rather perfunctorily at the end of Episode 4 when it's revealed that, oh, hey, LeChuck is the villain after all. And also the voodoo lady is the mastermind behind everything. Wha? It's not that these are bad elements to reveal, but it was all handled sort of suddenly, in a way that didn't make much sense.

Frankly, the characters themselves don't always make sense. Morgan is trying to kill you, then she admires you, then she hates you, but also is apparently kinda into you, but then she stops for awhile and is just bummed out by you, and then she dies and is mad at you again, before quickly becoming willing to help you again, and then sort of just being dropped.

I have to absolutely and totally agree with what you said (except for Ep 4 being the weakest -- it was most definitely the weakest in the terms you describe, but the atmosphere, story and puzzley goodness were excellent). The hamfistedness of Ep4's revelations and the total undercutting of LeFlay's character from a really interesting one to a two-dimensional one was pretty sad to see. (When did Guybrush become so popular with the ladies? That's not really in his character, is it? Oh well.)

Also, as you suggest, the ending didn't make a lick of sense.

[ThunderPeel2001]

Beat Situation: Comedy last night, and if I get my paper done quickly enough today, will hit up The Mole, The Mob, and The Meatball today. My intention is to get through all 11 episodes of Sam and Max before school starts up again in mid-January. So far, it's been a really interesting experience.

How's your re-tread of the S&M games? It's interesting to hear how people are kind of surprised at how good they are when they return to them, but it's also interesting to hear how they haven't found their voice yet.

[miffy495]

Made it to Reality 2.0 before the Steam sale, and my PC gaming has been overwhelmed with newer purchases since. One problem I'm having is that Telltale's system requires me to be online to authenticate before I play and most of my gaming on PC is done on my laptop during down-time at work. There is no wifi at work, so I end up always playing something on Steam in offline mode. I started the retread because I wanted something I could play while lying in bed using just the touchpad, so when I have a mouse available to me I'm playing something else as well. Not a bad idea to go back into it though. At the moment Forza has its hooks into me pretty bad, but pretty soon I should be good for another night of Sam and Max.

[Roderick]

I jusssst finished episode 5 and I have to comment on this. Despite reservations at the beginning (how could they possibly make it a 'real' Monkey Island in 3D episodes?) and a frightful second episode that made me feel this was going in the wrong direction altogether, the game really came through. It was SUPERB. I loved it. Episode 3, as I said, blew me away, then ep4 changed it up again, and the fifth was totally awesome.

I love how Telltale has built upon the lore of Monkey Island in a way that's respectful, fun, interesting and additive. It's exactly the right tone.

LeChuck's human form was hilarious, though I was kind of sad that he was just pretending. In the end it did all come together a bit like 'well, everyone already knew what was going on, even if it was totally unpredictable and random!'. I would've liked it better if LeChuck really had been a victim of circumstances as much as Guybrush.

Morgan is a terrific new character. Her interactions with Guybrush and the plot are delicious. Though I agree with much of what has been said in this post by others, I still really like her.

Though I was a bit sad to see at the end that some things are left deliberately open to set up the sequel. Ah well, can't have it all. All in all, an excellent game made with obvious love, well worthy of the Monkey Island name =)

[Rez]

in hindsight, 3 was my favourite episode.

it had some of the coolest little touches. not only did it have some awesome puzzle design, settings and gameplay mechnics, it also had some neat presentation quirks -- stuff like the episode title card flying in as Guybrush and Morgan fell down the beast's gut. it doesn't seem like much, but it really makes the whole thing just feel like a really classy production.

Ep 5 and 4 are on the same tier for me, with 1 & 2 a tier lower.

my one significant complaint on the series as a whole was that the writers fell back on typical

evil LeChuck as the villain in the last episode (even though it had technically been building up to this point with stuff like the monkey placements). desinge was set up to be a really great villain and season antagonist throughout the first four eps. to have him just tossed aside and killed at the last second was cheap. it suggests to me that the writer's didn't feel confident in their own ability to establish their own villain with his own motivations.

I mean, that's probably not the case. LeChuck's human transformation seems like it would have been one of the first story elements conceived, but all the same, I hope Season Two () doesn't fall back on the LeChuck card. I'd like to see his presence throughout the season, but I don't feel it's necessary to make him the big-bad just for the sake of it. I want to see Guybrush clash wits with and, in turn, foil someone new.

[MrHoatzin]

Personally, I liked the penultimate episode. Visually it was a serious improvement over Episode 1 (even though it recycled a fair bit of its assets) and the trial dynamics were fun. It felt far less like the usual fetch quest (find the ingredients for the soup/voodoo doll/ring/map/etc), it gave the player the sense of agency over his/her own destiny. I wish this was easier to pull of in more adventure games, this structure where it all starts with a simple directive or goal (prove your innocence), and the ways and means to get there are discovered through further structured inquiry (cross-interrogating witnesses, confronting them with evidence, etc). :tup:

On a somewhat unrelated note, I wish there was more adventure games out there that gave more investigative agency prefaced with a simple goal that doesn't amount to building machines from stolen junk. There hasn't been anything like Discworld Noir since Discworld Noir; Discworld Noir being a shining example of this mechanic implemented with great success. :tup:

Anyhoo, I was a bit blitzkrieg'd by the staggering slew and rate of revelations, gotchas and dei ex machina near the end of the episode, but it didn't bother me enough to come here and complain.

In retrospect, it could've been handled a little more deftly, perhaps. A little more Wire, a little less Lost... or maybe that is ridiculous. I wonder how a The Wire-inspired Monkey Island game would be structured. CREATIVE EXERCISE TIME!

[Roderick]

3 was my favorite episode too. But that's because I'm shipping Guybrush / Morgan hard.

[Garple]

You guys're slowly becoming the LucasArts of the future.

LucasArts: The Telltale Games of the Past

I think we just invented retroactive slogans.

New Coke: Don't worry, old Coke will be back!

[Forbin]

I'm thinking I finally I have time to play through Tales. Does anybody know if I buy it on Steam if it will work on my Macbook as well?

[Moosferatu]

I can't speak for all Macbooks, but all five episodes ran great on mine through Steam.

[Patters]

I'm thinking I finally I have time to play through Tales. Does anybody know if I buy it on Steam if it will work on my Macbook as well?

It's not the native version, which is only available through Telltale themselves currently.