Moosferatu Posted October 31, 2009 Oh man! I'm probably only half-way through it currently, but it's great. The monkey in the pocket bit was genius! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thyroid Posted October 31, 2009 I've been throwing this around all over the internet, and I'll say it again: it is one of the best games I have ever played. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Horticulture Tycoon Posted October 31, 2009 I was skeptical of all this hyperbole before I finished the game, but now that's I'm done... Wow, that was pretty great. Also, EARL BOEN, HOORAY! ! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Erkki Posted October 31, 2009 This is one of the best episodes yet. But I think the ending was a bit unclimatic (no pun intended). The end puzzle was too easy since you were stuck and could only do a couple of things, and then part of it was just done by magic. I had assumed at least I'd have to figure out how to operate the machine. Also, I was kind of expecting that LeChuck would somehow absorb all the voodoo power again from the sponge, but somewhy I didn't like how that was handled. Also, I had my brain stumped with the SHOCK feast... I had figured out where to get shocked, but I tried to somehow use the sponge instead of just walking in a certain place. had to look it up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Horticulture Tycoon Posted October 31, 2009 Also, I was kind of expecting that LeChuck would somehow absorb all the voodoo power again from the sponge, but somewhy I didn't like how that was handled. Isn't that exactly what happened? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vimes Posted October 31, 2009 Wait ... what?! Death in the MI universe? And two in the same episodes ?! And They tried to make me cry over one of them?! I'm really bummed, because after LeChuck's revelation in court, I thought the series exemplified how a renown universe could be explained and explored from a slightly different angle : from LeChuck turned good, to fully Pox-ed Elaine and even the Voodoo Lady being maybe a manipulative mastermind - she scared the hell out of me in MI1 and 2 - I bought all the twists and turns. But making LeChuck the character 'who was bad all along, mwahaha' and (supposedly) killing Morgan after she finally showed some depth felt like taking 100 steps backward ... and then, killing Guybrush was like watching the second half of a Simpsons' episode focusing on Homer giving up drinking, you know it just can't happen. There's change you can believe in, and what they just did is definitely not of that kind. Still the game as one of the best line I've hear from a mad scientist : "Of course, I fled! There was blood all over the floor and not in sealed tubes like it ought to be!" (not actual line) So kudos to the guy who found that one! And the mini-scene of the 6th sense card is one of the visual wonders of my past year playing games! On the gameplay front, the puzzles were less naturally integrated than in the previous episode and more classical overall (except for the reality bending map which was awesome). With all the liquid substance we gather, the setting of a trial and the presence of crime scenes, I though a spoof of CSI was going to happen but it ended up being all about use-this-on-that. The effect of the monkey on the bearded Guybrush board in the inventory was very neat though. There was a record of frustrating puzzles due to lack of visual clues the carpet charging for electricity shock , similar alternative solution that didn't work put the eye in the lava drink to turn it red then use the cat for the iris or charge electricity using the cat , or just plainly absurd reasoning[spoilers]mixing all the ingredients creates a skull shape wound, even though there's enough skull lying around to use as cache? , or a bit punitive in failure the chili you can't take with your hand but trying to disables your tongue numbing, so you have to go aaaaaaalll the way back to the laboratory :/ . Also the finale required a certain order in interaction that didn't make any sense I can't throw the sponge at the wind device at one point, but after showing the pepper to DeSinge, I suddenly can, WTF ? thus lacked the dynamism of the the best Telltale climaxes ... so it's not the most polished and surprising experience I've had from Telltale, to say the least. Also, while I was playing, most EU thumbeteers where having a great time in London; and I think it's in order that Telltale take the blame for that too. On a side note, was Marek the guy who provided the voices for the dolls? It sounded strangely like his thumbcast voice. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Erkki Posted October 31, 2009 Isn't that exactly what happened? I may have worded it wrong. I was saying that what I expected happened, but I didn't like HOW that happened. i.e. that LeChuck had only been pretending all this time. I hoped it would have been an accident or Voodoo lady orchestration. I don't think killing Guybrush (or Morgan) was a good move, either. This means they will somehow be resurrected later which makes the whole story stupider IMHO. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SignorSuperdouche Posted November 1, 2009 I agree with Erkki and vimes on the story criticisms. Morgan's death scene was offensively generic, LeChuck pretending to be good was an incredibly bland way to have him turn evil again (wouldn't it have been far more interesting if a good LeChuck had realised he had to become evil in order to fulfill his destiny even if he didn't want to?) . On the positive side, I thought the Voodoo Lady revelation was good, although I'm concerned Guybrush is being set up as The Chosen One™ which is the antithesis of what the character is about. I'm also hopeful that we'll see LeFlay and Guybrush teaming up in the afterlife in the next episode, which has the potential to be pretty cool. The puzzle desgin was not as spectacular as episode 3 but it was mostly solid, the map puzzle in particular was very enjoyable. Overall I'd say it was a decent episode but it could've been a whole lot better. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Udvarnoky Posted November 1, 2009 Great game, and like all the others very much Monkey Island. The Monkey Island games have always juggled between "legitimate supernatural pirate tale" and "surreal jokey anachronistic Disneyland ride," and Telltale is clearly leaning more toward the former aesthetic with their take on the series. It's also increasingly obvious to me that Michael Land's work is one of the unsung heroes of these episodes. Everyone kind of unconsciously knows it's excellent, but if it weren't there a lot of the atmosphere would be sapped. As much as I'm enjoying the game's story for the twist and turns, the occasion and highly welcome serious moments, and the way it's shaking things up in a way this series has needed for awhile, I'm really surprised more people aren't calling it out on the blatant similarities to the POTC movies. I mean, we all pointed out how those movies "ripped off" MI when they came out, but now TMI's key plot points seemingly all being lifted directly from the POTC sequels doesn't get any kind of notice for some reason. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Erkki Posted November 1, 2009 It's also increasingly obvious to me that Michael Land's work is one of the unsung heroes of these episodes. Everyone kind of unconsciously knows it's excellent, but if it weren't there a lot of the atmosphere would be sapped. Yeah, the music is excellent. BTW, did we hear a bit of this in Club 41? WNDh_tFIHn4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jake Posted November 1, 2009 I kept hearing Twin Peaks out in the jungle this episode, which was weird. Someone on the Telltale forums ripped and edited together 18 minutes of music from Ch 4 and its quite nice for those who like the tracks in the game. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MrHoatzin Posted November 2, 2009 I keep wondering if the whole experience would be better served by musics that are less synthesizery and have more of that "real-instrument" grunge. Then I remind myself that it would probably be cost-prohibitive and tell that little wondering voice to shut up. Still. I am never bothered by the midi in MI2. I guess CMI spoiled me. So there's that. The episode, overall, is rad. :tup: I don't think the discovery of skewered Morgan was particularly hammy, nor do I think the slaying of Guybrush was contrived or whatever. Their potential/expected resurrections may seem dumb at first, but how many times and in how many different weird ways has LeChuck come back throughout the series? Plus, bringing back the dead is a primary promise of Voodoo. Guybrush was killed with the Cutlass of Kaflu, whatever that may mean. There could also be some sort of MI2 ending-inspired deus ex machina, which could be extra rad, considering there've been two games since MI2 that completely chose to pretend that ending didn't happen. It's too soon to judge's what I'm saying. As for the LeChuck revelation, I think anything more convoluted than "he was faking it" could've been far more Lost-like and obnoxious than what we got, but would boil down to pretty much the same thing; i.e. LeChuck was dependable, but is now evil again. So far, the MI games have been at their weakest when they try to explain away plot holes and awkward jumps in the narrative. The less of that the better. This is a property that at its high points makes use of the casual anachronism, dream/child logic and Lynchian turns of events. When it starts to backtrack and fill supposed gaps—contrary to the intent—the whole thing looses some conviction and clarity of vision. That said, the way the episode ended was slightly confusing. Did LeChuck take the pox from the sponge, or did he just straight turn into his undead self? I think I blinked and missed this bit. However, the oddly easy way De Singe was removed from the story, the completely batshit loco Elaine, the arrival of LeChuck, all made for an effective, unhinged cliffhanger, I thought. I dug the subdued nighttime Scabby palette; it went a long way to nerf the EMI reject island flavor of daytime Flotsam. I am looking forward to a potential ghost/zombie/demon Guybrush next time around. Also looking forward to maybe playing as Elaine. :clap: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jake Posted November 2, 2009 Did LeChuck take the pox from the sponge, or did he just straight turn into his undead self? LeChuck was full on voodoo-free human, and he re-absorbed it (plus anything else) at the end there, when he made his return. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MrHoatzin Posted November 2, 2009 LeChuck was full on voodoo-free human, and he re-absorbed it (plus anything else) at the end there, when he made his return. Soooo, he is more absorbent than the sponge? Voodoo osmosis makes no sense! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Erkki Posted November 2, 2009 Soooo, he is more absorbent than the sponge? Voodoo osmosis makes no sense! I think I remember him cutting the sponge open Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jake Posted November 3, 2009 He surely just squeezed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigJKO Posted November 3, 2009 It's important we get this right. I'm certain he devoured it. But on a serious note, I thought the episode was great! The only gripes I had with it were that I wished the trial could've been concluded a bit faster. The way it was it didn't feel that threatening (being able to walk freely around the town, although the Guybrush Pirate Attourney bit was hilarious.) Not in any way suggesting how it should've been designed, because obviously it needed to be a big puzzle piece, but it didn't feel like I was on trial because it was so prolonged, and there wasn't a whole lot I could do inside the trial besides call witnesses up and point out that they were obviously lying. The second thing was Morgan LeFlay's death. I certainly felt sad the moment I saw her lying there with the sword in her chest, but immediately afterwards, save for the moment where Guybrush looks at the skeleton and mumbles, angrily, it all felt happy and comic again. I realize Monkey Island can't be all serious, but it felt a bit rushed from sad, sad death to let's make snide remarks about death. Guybrush dying totally worked on me, though. Oh, and did I misunderstand something? It was DeSinge who killed her, right? It felt like they were trying to set it up as to it being a mystery who killed her, but some of DeSinge's dialogue seemed to verify that it was indeed him that killed her. Maybe I missed some bit? Also, awesome map puzzle. Truly, truly awesome. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ThunderPeel2001 Posted November 5, 2009 I agree with Erkki and vimes on the story criticisms. Morgan's death scene was offensively generic, LeChuck pretending to be good was an incredibly bland way to have him turn evil again (wouldn't it have been far more interesting if a good LeChuck had realised he had to become evil in order to fulfil his destiny even if he didn't want to?) . Good god, yes. The dramatic moments in this episode sucked huge amounts of balls. I love Morgan LeFlay. I thought she was one of the best post Gilbert characters added to the canon... (Until she started liking Guybrush and just became inevitably generic and bland.) But that "death" scene was SO poorly done... Good god. I just watched it, baffled, wondering if I was supposed to be shocked or surprised or upset... because I certainly didn't feel anything close to any of them. The twist of LeChuck was also a wasted opportunity. If you're going to do that Saturday morning cartoon crap, at least try and make it somewhat believable. Explain how and why so I can at least try to get on board with it. At the moment I feel it won't make any sense whatsoever if I replay the series, so the "shock" was done just for that: Lame shock value. It's also sad that the interesting dynamics of the series have been almost completely reset: The love triangle that was developing between Guybrush, Elaine, LeChuck and was compelling and different... but this whole chapter, which was otherwise excellent, seems to have eradicated anything remotely interesting. All of a sudden Elaine can't have feelings for LeChuck any more (now he's regressed to dull zombie mode), so she'll almost definitely be returning the 2D foil she's been in the past before. The only remaining thread of any interest is the Voodoo Lady but --gack-- guess what, fellas? It's all been a ruse. Evil LeChuck faked her diary and she really was good all along... Vomits profusely. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thyroid Posted November 5, 2009 (edited) The fan reaction would have pretty bad if Telltale had decided to make such drastic changes to Monkey Island, so far as to develop some romance between LeChuck and Elaine and seperate her from Guybrush. The whole point of that final scene was to reiterate that LeChuck hasn't grown at all. He's just as bad without the pox, and still thinks like he did back in SMI: although she exhibits no real interest in him, he still proposes. He hasn't learned a damn thing. Him being evil because of some pox would have made cheapened his personality. The pox is sort of like the Mr. Hyde aspect of anyone, bringing out negative genuine feelings in a very bad way. Notice how it gets worse everytime somebody gets really angry? That LeChuck is so evil anyways, and actually chooses to be hit by it, I think, adds a lot to his character. Morgan's death was pretty sad, and funny ("What did the monkey tell you?"), even if the way her head fell down could have been done in a better way. On the other hand, Guybrush's reaction to her death, and his responses to clicking on things inside that room are heartbreaking. Guybrush's death was excellent because of the superb dialogue and Elaine's reaction. My opinion, anyways. Edited November 9, 2009 by Kroms Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rez Posted November 6, 2009 I really liked the 'dramatic moments' and where Telltale took the story. I've already posted about it at length on another forum and cbf'd doing it again, but yeah, I'm just throwing that out there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thorn Posted November 8, 2009 The whole point of that final scene was to reiterate that LeChuck hasn't grown at all. Except that now he has skill in solving adventure-game style puzzles, which may well make the next episode that much more tricky. I presume we'll be heading off to Monkey Island™ before too long? Other than that assumption, I can't quite imagine where we'll be going from here, given that all the plot threads have been resolved (other than Guybrush being dead and all) and LeChuck is back to standard nastiness levels (Earl Boen, WOOOO!) . I have high expectations of suprise in Episode 5. Oh, and did I misunderstand something? It was DeSinge who killed her, right? It felt like they were trying to set it up as to it being a mystery who killed her, but some of DeSinge's dialogue seemed to verify that it was indeed him that killed her. Maybe I missed some bit? To me, his dialogue made it sound like he didn't kill her, but found her that way . Jumping in to the issue of Morgan's death, I think it was handled fairly well. The issue is that there is little to compare it to; so few adventure games have had well-liked characters die dramatically. The only one I can think of is Lola in Grim Fandango and I don't think anyone could possibly beat that scene for perfectly-judged melodrama. My one qualm with it was that Guybrush only seemed to be upset for a few seconds, before getting over it. It just meant that I didn't end up caring as much as I should have. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rez Posted November 9, 2009 I'd say The Rock of Gelato seems like the more likely place for the series to end rather than Monkey Island itself. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thrik Posted November 14, 2009 Bit late to the party here, but I just burned through chapters 3 and 4 and think they're easily the strongest two of the series thus far. Chapter 3 was very satisfying from a gameplay perspective, whereas chapter 4 was fantastic on a story level I thought and I loved the overall atmosphere of Flotsam by night. About time we went inside a damn bar! I personally don't get all this criticism about the deaths at all — I thought they did a great job of injecting some higher stakes into the story without being too dramatic about it. Besides, did anyone at any point really think the deaths would be permanent ? I certainly never did, even as Morgan clearly seemed to die . Of course now watch it turn out that last one was permanent. I think this latest episode really brought home to me how quality this series has actually been. The engine seems to be at its best handling these darker scenes, with the aesthetics being way above EMI in my opinion. And also not only did this episode feature some great music of its own, but it also reused some of the best stuff from the previous ones. At this point I can definitely say Tales of Monkey Island sits well above EMI as an overall game for me, although as I suspected it hasn't come particularly close to knocking any of the original trilogy off the top three seats. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Moosferatu Posted December 11, 2009 Great job, Jake and co! It was a fantastic season that shattered my expectations, especially the 3rd and 4th episodes. The final episode was mostly enjoyable. I'm guessing it'd probably be better if played more closely to the other episodes, as well as with a real mouse rather than a shitty touch pad. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Roderick Posted December 11, 2009 I'm tremendously lagging behind with the series, so I'm not reading any of the posts above and just ninja-ing this in. I hope you forgive me. I just finished Lair of the Leviathan, the third episode, and it was by FAR the best one yet! So freaking awesome! The great puzzles (lots of them 'system' puzzles, which is awesome), the return of MURRAY, the wonderful environment inside the belly of the manatee, the crazy politics of the mutineers, the love-story between Morgan and Guybrush and the truly, TRULY inspired return of insult swordfighting, but in the most ingeniously subtle way! Everything about this episode was fantastic. This has really set the bar after the somewhat disappointing second act. Virtually no recycling! Superb! I'll be playing the last two episodes in the next couple of weeks, savouring the taste. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites