The Beatles Game

[Chris]

It's terrifying how close you are to being right.

So that's just the problem? Because if so, that doesn't terrify me, and I don't mind.

[Alex P]

So that's just the problem? Because if so, that doesn't terrify me, and I don't mind.

If I run into you at GDC this week, I'll tell you.

[Historical_Society]

I'm personally not necessarily looking forward to the game. But I'd enjoy it intensely if I was gifted the game. But I think to say that it'll be a bad game based on the style of music the Beatles are because it doesn't equate to a challenging game is just ludicrous. My mind was completely altered about music games when I played Rock Band because it's focus wasn't on who can get the highest score pressing a ridiculous amount of buttons, it's playing music you enjoy with friends to create an incredibly unique and interesting experience. Fine, the Beatles game would probably not be as intensed as say playing Slayer on Guitar Hero, but I've equally had a great time just playing Still Alive on Rock Band, and actually had more fun because it wasn't a chore. So I really don't understand why there would be an argument towards this game.

[twmac]

You are right, I suppose. Not being a fan of the game the only way I can appreciate it is the fact that the game can bust your balls with crazy Dragon Force solos and Machinehead drumming. If it doesn't have that then I don't get it.

I just remember when 'Rock the 80s' or whatever, came out and people went apeshit in excitement. Then they all finished the whole thing in a day and never played it again.

I can understand that not everyone will be able to bang out Raining Blood so the fantasy of kicking it onstage and nailing, for example, a Kirk Hammet wail is understandable.

But even I could plod methodically through most Beatles songs on drums, guitar or bass.

[ThunderPeel2001]

I'm sorry but what the fuck?

People are getting excited about a game that compiles a bunch of songs from a band that could never, even if you like the band, have challenging moments in a Rock Band/GH evironment?

'I think I'll do Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds on expert... oh that was a disappointment'

Just go and listen to a Beatles album and rejoice at their songs, don't spend the money to get a sub-par, unchallenging gaming experience.

Can't hear you... LA LA LA!!!

[syntheticgerbil]

Well okay, I'm not a big Beatles fan, but my girlfriend is.

I think this game is not going to be tailored to those who love going through Dragon Force and Buckethead songs, and that should be fine. There are a lot of people who love the Beatles and aren't particularly good at rhythm games, so I'm sure it will be a a more relaxed game that will probably capture a different audience.

Nothing wrong with that though, right?

I don't know, I never play these music games, so I should probably shut my trap.

[T-Matt]

I'm sorry but what the fuck?

People are getting excited about a game that compiles a bunch of songs from a band that could never, even if you like the band, have challenging moments in a Rock Band/GH evironment?

'I think I'll do Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds on expert... oh that was a disappointment'

Just go and listen to a Beatles album and rejoice at their songs, don't spend the money to get a sub-par, unchallenging gaming experience.

What makes you think everyone playing rock band wants a challenge?

I'm all about playing amazing songs with my friends not some horrific dragonforce song.

I was in a Beatles tribute band and this should be as fun and easier.

[Sergey]

I wish they would show the actual chords being played on screen for people who want to play along on actual instruments, instead of becoming bored playing repetitive sequences of chords on the Rock Band guitar.

[ThunderPeel2001]

I wish they would show the actual chords being played on screen for people who want to play along on actual instruments, instead of becoming bored playing repetitive sequences of chords on the Rock Band guitar.

That way you could become bored with repetitive sequences of chords on a REAL guitar!

[twmac]

What makes you think everyone playing rock band wants a challenge?

I'm all about playing amazing songs with my friends not some horrific dragonforce song.

I was in a Beatles tribute band and this should be as fun and easier.

I guess Harmonix know their market then.

[Noyb]

I guess Harmonix know their market then.

Marketing a Beatles game to fans of the band? Brilliant!

[pwnage1232]

It's as if the theoretical target market of the Beatles game is the complete opposite of what GH: Metallica would go for. Interesting.

[ThunderPeel2001]

A Beatles game is something the whole family could enjoy...

[twmac]

Marketing a Beatles game to fans of the band? Brilliant!

I was merely trying to bow out of the discussion as gracefully as possible. If you are going to be like that though.

Guitar Hero and Rock Band for me are the casualist of casual games, a couple of rungs above a collection of mini-games in my view of what I enjoy. The only appeal I saw in them was that on higher levels of difficulty it's actually hard, and you had to be really good at both memorising patterns and making tactical choices when to use star power or whatever it is called.

Clearly people don't just play the game for that, they play it for some reason that really is beyond my fathoming. If there is no challenge, no plot (unless you call repeating the same song over and over until your band is in a stadium a plot) nothing but the buttons going up the screen while a song plays... What is the point?

For me these rythm games have long been the nadir of video game interaction. The whole thing is purely binary, you get it right or you get it wrong with no variation. It breaks down gaming to pure data entry (or worse a very lengthy Quick Time Event)and nothing more. For me you might as well be playing an excel spreadsheet. At least when you check a box it would be at the rythm of your deciding rather than to a Blink 182 song.

So now we have a Beatles version where you essentially strip the game of the one thing I could appreciate about the game, the fact that you had to be able to go 101010010101101 really, really fast.

So what do you have left? Something that on paper looks like making the most casual game on the planet even more casual. Great.

Clearly this is what the people on this thread wanted and really I should have kept my fingers away from the keyboard as I was only going to invoke people's ire but I couldn't believe that anyone in their right mind couldn't be cynical about this new introduction.

[Tommy Gun]

Clearly people don't just play the game for that, they play it for some reason that really is beyond my fathoming.

It has singing, you know. That's the greatest appeal of the Beatles game, I would think.

At least when you check a box it would be at the rythm of your deciding rather than to a Blink 182 song.

This doesn't really make sense -- if you're playing real instruments to a pre-written song, you're not "deciding" anything, you're following the written music. So do you feel the same way about real instruments? Following the rhythm IS the point, that's how there's a score. That's why they're called rhythm games!

I do like hard songs, so I am a bit worried that the Beatles game will be too easy, but that's not really the point. Singing is the main draw, and if they have custom venues that are based off of Beatles art/etc. then it's more of an "experience." Still hopeful.

I actually do wish they could put up the real sheet music (for drums, anyway), so I could get better at reading music while playing. Even if the songs are super easy, I'd get better. Also, two microphones, please!

[frizby]

Lots of hate for Rock Band on here, which is new...and lots of hate for the Beatles which is right on the verge of blasphemy.

The beauty of music games is that they are whatever you want them to be. I just buy music I like and play on medium, and I feel pretty good about it, thanks. Alternatively, some folks, who want a challenge can certainly find one on expert...or at least I'd imagine they could.

I personally can't wait for the Beatles. Meanwhile, I'm having a heck of a lot of fun with Pearl Jam - Ten. "It rocked my balls off!" -IGN.com

[frizby]

A Beatles game is something the whole family could enjoy...

-IGN.com

[Chris]

I was merely trying to bow out of the discussion as gracefully as possible. If you are going to be like that though.

Guitar Hero and Rock Band for me are the casualist of casual games, a couple of rungs above a collection of mini-games in my view of what I enjoy. The only appeal I saw in them was that on higher levels of difficulty it's actually hard, and you had to be really good at both memorising patterns and making tactical choices when to use star power or whatever it is called.

Clearly people don't just play the game for that, they play it for some reason that really is beyond my fathoming. If there is no challenge, no plot (unless you call repeating the same song over and over until your band is in a stadium a plot) nothing but the buttons going up the screen while a song plays... What is the point?

For me these rythm games have long been the nadir of video game interaction. The whole thing is purely binary, you get it right or you get it wrong with no variation. It breaks down gaming to pure data entry (or worse a very lengthy Quick Time Event)and nothing more. For me you might as well be playing an excel spreadsheet. At least when you check a box it would be at the rythm of your deciding rather than to a Blink 182 song.

So now we have a Beatles version where you essentially strip the game of the one thing I could appreciate about the game, the fact that you had to be able to go 101010010101101 really, really fast.

So what do you have left? Something that on paper looks like making the most casual game on the planet even more casual. Great.

Clearly this is what the people on this thread wanted and really I should have kept my fingers away from the keyboard as I was only going to invoke people's ire but I couldn't believe that anyone in their right mind couldn't be cynical about this new introduction.

Based on your post, you presumably then find the entire rhythm game genre to be pointless, I would imagine. Do you also find simply listening to music, which involves no interaction, to be meaningless and empty? Playing rhythm games is, largely, an activity centering around listening to and enjoying music, while also engaging in a relatively accessible suite of interactions, often in a group setting in which all of the players are working towards a shared goal in concert with one another.

On the guitar, much of the enjoyment for me is picking out the rhythmic patters of the underlying accompaniment, when usually with pop music people are accustomed to mainly listening to the primary vocal melody. On the drums, the enjoyment is that you are actually playing the drums in pretty much every way, particularly on the highest difficulty levels, and that is obviously an activity that a great number of people find entertaining and rewarding. On the mic, the enjoyment is that you are singing, and if you don't understand what somebody might enjoy about singing, then you might in fact lack a soul.

As far as the Beatles game in particular, I don't know what there is to be cynical about for someone who already enjoys the Rock Band formula. Beatles music is fun to listen to, and there's a lot to it from a harmonic standpoint, and Rock Band is already fun, so there you go.

[ThunderPeel2001]

Well said

May I just add, because I'm so sick of people saying "learn a real instrument" (although not on here, thankfully), that Guitar Hero II and Rock Band have massively increased my enjoyment of music and widened my musical tastes. As a direct result, for the first time in my life, I AM considering learning to play guitar.

In short: Rhythm games have been windows to me enjoying and appreciating music more. Which is well worth the time I spend playing them, if you ask me.

[Horticulture Tycoon]

I have to admit, I used to be part of the "learn a real instrument" crowd, but that's before I actually played any of these games. I think to a lot of people who play guitar (including, until recently, myself), the very idea of Guitar Hero is an anathema: from a musician's persceptive, Guitar Hero seems to reduce the infinite possibilities of a musical instrument down to a fast-paced game of Simon Says. Of course, upon playing rhythm games, I think it generally becomes clear to most people that these games do illustrate musical concepts that dig far deeper than it initially seems, as Chris has already touched on. It forces you to focus on your one instrument in ways that most people aren't occustomed to doing when listening to music, which gives a player a sense of how all these individual instruments interact with one another in order to coalesce into a singular piece of music. Simply by deconstructing a song into its component parts, the game allows you to take a look at the music from the inside out.

I think when people criticize rhythm games, for the most part they're criticizing what they represent, as opposed to what they actually are. I know that's what it was like for me. Now you couldn't seperate me from my Rock Band drum kit with an industrial crowbar.

[miffy495]

Same here. Since I graduated to Expert drums back in May (ish) of last year, I've found myself unconsciously separating the drum tracks from almost every song I listen to and wondering if I'd be able to play it. I need to upgrade from my Ion kit to a real set one of these days. Played guitar for 7 years before picking up Guitar Hero, and found the original two games to be incredibly fun but didn't really change the way I thought about music. Drumming in Rock Band, however, has flipped some switch in my brain.

[twmac]

Wait, because I don't see the point rhythm games all of a sudden I'm not supposed to like music? That's taking it a little far.

I can appreciate what you are trying to say that rhythm games may help some of us listen to music differently but I think you aren't really getting what my problem is.

The guitar side of Rock Band and its ilk fails to inspire me as I really have problems 'hearing' the music and I find it outright annoying that I'm forced into this rigid structure that feels as much like data entry as a QTE(as I stated before) something that I loathe. There are other games that I find more rewarding in terms of encouraging structure and timing (beat em ups in particular) but that do not enforce the same gruelling repetition of Simon says (it is funny that was mentioned as I'm reading a book called Extra Life which mentions a real life electronic game based on that).

The singing for me is my least favourite section, I'm sorry, I don't have friends like Tommy who can belt out versions of songs that sound better than their originals (RE: that video of her covering The Darkness). Instead, the game is broken down to what it requires from whoever I play with, a chore of hitting the right pitch. My friend got 100% on one song by making incoherent noises at the right pitch and when I've done the same songs I tend to do the same thing as it really is irritating.

The drums are a perfect fit for this kind of game, I will definitely concede on that one. The rigid structure is exactly what you need to learn the drums. Having been a drummer in the past though it doesn't make me listen to the song differently as I have this weird thing that I only ever take notice of the percussion any way.

As for the diversity of the song listing, most of it is extremely main stream, again that is exactly what you want if you are a game like this but none of it is stuff I've not already heard so I fail to expand my horizons from that perspective.

I have played these games and I've tried to like them (everyone else I know plays them religiously) but apart from the good exercise the drums can give me during the brutally cold Montreal winters I don't see their merit.

I guess I have no soul.

[Chris]

Wait, because I don't see the point rhythm games all of a sudden I'm not supposed to like music? That's taking it a little far.

I can appreciate what you are trying to say that rhythm games may help some of us listen to music differently but I think you aren't really getting what my problem is.

The guitar side of Rock Band and its ilk fails to inspire me as I really have problems 'hearing' the music and I find it outright annoying that I'm forced into this rigid structure that feels as much like data entry as a QTE(as I stated before) something that I loathe. There are other games that I find more rewarding in terms of encouraging structure and timing (beat em ups in particular) but that do not enforce the same gruelling repetition of Simon says (it is funny that was mentioned as I'm reading a book called Extra Life which mentions a real life electronic game based on that).

I'm not saying what you're "supposed" to do, I'm saying that a big part of the enjoyment of Rock Band is, quite simply, in a very similar space to the enjoyment of listening to music. That may not be the case for you, but I'm not explaining why you should like it, I'm explaining why other people like it, because that's the thing that, unless I'm misreading you, you yourself say you are incapable of understanding.

The singing for me is my least favourite section, I'm sorry, I don't have friends like Tommy who can belt out versions of songs that sound better than their originals (RE: that video of her covering The Darkness). Instead, the game is broken down to what it requires from whoever I play with, a chore of hitting the right pitch. My friend got 100% on one song by making incoherent noises at the right pitch and when I've done the same songs I tend to do the same thing as it really is irritating.

Jesus Christ. Singing along, even badly, can be fun for a lot of people. When it comes to guitar, you're apparently enormously disdainful of the exacting nature of the input, but when it comes to singing, you're irritated by the lack of stringent judgment? What difficulty singing were you playing on? Perhaps you wish there were a more comfortable medium between the two extremes (and, in fact, I think there is if you adjust the singing levels), but I also suspect you would not be swayed either way.

The drums are a perfect fit for this kind of game, I will definitely concede on that one. The rigid structure is exactly what you need to learn the drums. Having been a drummer in the past though it doesn't make me listen to the song differently as I have this weird thing that I only ever take notice of the percussion any way.

As for the diversity of the song listing, most of it is extremely main stream, again that is exactly what you want if you are a game like this but none of it is stuff I've not already heard so I fail to expand my horizons from that perspective.

I have played these games and I've tried to like them (everyone else I know plays them religiously) but apart from the good exercise the drums can give me during the brutally cold Montreal winters I don't see their merit.

Well in the first half of this quote you seem to see some merit to the drums beyond the exercise, and now you don't, so I have a suspicion you're trying to extrapolate an argument out from a reaction, rather than build an argument empirically. It's fine to just not like the game, but if you're going to knock it on specific points, I'll respond to them; if you're just going to be roundly dismissive, it's not worth it.

I guess I have no soul.

By this, are you implying you don't understand what somebody would like about karaoke? Because that's the only context in which souls are mentioned in my post.

[ThunderPeel2001]

Certain qualities and details of the game have come to light. Things I can't talk about publicly on a message board...

Any news on this, yet? I'm still a bit worried that all this excitement will be for nought

[twmac]

Chris, thanks for responding.

You're right though trying to pinpoint why I don't like rock band or Guitar Hero is a bit silly. I just don't like it.

To try and argue why I don't like it is a bit like trying to argue why I don't like a particular band with some one who does. The exact same things I don't like about it is probably what they do like about it.

The 'no soul' comment was my attempt at humour and instead it came off as a little faecitious.

Anyways I've had my vent and I'm going to shut up as this thread isn't called 'I hate Rock band'