Spaff

Star Wars The Old Republic

Recommended Posts

Tycho had some stuff to say on the matter today that made me say "yes! Fuck you everyone, exactly."

i thought it was worth copying over here....

http://www.penny-arcade.com/2008/12/17/

Is there a single person who found something to enjoy in that "first video footage" of Star Wars: The Old Republic? I heard the same incredibly tired, bulk bin message discipline, only this time it was stuck together with context-free wads of video.

They're continually telling us about their mystical Story Pillar, and how other online role-playing games don't have story, but this is a flatly ignorant statement. I don't believe they said it out of malice, but sometime prior to their presumptive coronation they may want to consider playing games in the genre. Independent of developer intention, narratives spring quite readily out of social play. Asheron's Call has not only story but time, with updates almost every month to progress the world. If you've checked out Wrath of the Lich King - a dangerous act, surely - you know that the new expansion is radically unlike their previous attempts, and leverages new technology to deliver a kind of narrative that players progress on their own schedule.

When Bioware talks about grievous decision making in real-time that will forever shape their character, I don't think that's what people actually want in this kind of experience. Games of this kind get codified very quickly, transforming your best attempts at story width into golden, optimal paths. We don't know what it actually means to make story central to an online game you can play with friends, who are themselves in various states of completion. We don't know because they haven't actually said.

also the footage looks ¬¬

Could it actually be good underneath? It certainly has a chance at it, and we all loved KoToR. I can't help feeling that the mmo part of the game will be shit, and the rest will be pretty great. I am eager to learn more of their 'fourth pillar' that I apparently have never experienced before.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I haven't played other MMOs extensively, but it does seem like Bioware's approach is basically "It's a single-player RPG, but online!"

Actually, it's for this reason that I can almost get behind the project. In my mind, I'm buying the game, disabling all chat & multiplayer functions, playing it for 2 months, then quitting.

On the other hand, it's possible all this "4th Pillar" nonsense is just marketing hyperbole, and in fact it will resemble other MMOs much more than we think. Or that Bioware is not nearly as ignorant as we think, but is trying to sound that way to fulfill the needs of marketing hyperbole.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As soon as the word 'mmorpg' falls, I immediately expect a difficult to play, ugly, uninteresting game. Only World of Warcraft has managed to capture my imagination (other games that have failed in one way or the other were Age of Conan, Guild Wars and Tabula Rasa). The Old Republic looks comfortably uninteresting. I thought it was especially poor in their demonstration that they kept cutting back to footage of the same battle between two Jedi with the turbine or dam background. An MMO is supposed to lead us to an enormous richness and diversity of locations and events. This just looks pretty bland.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

also the footage looks ¬¬

Could it actually be good underneath? It certainly has a chance at it, and we all loved KoToR. I can't help feeling that the mmo part of the game will be shit, and the rest will be pretty great. I am eager to learn more of their 'fourth pillar' that I apparently have never experienced before.

I think that's a bit harsh. The game is still years away - the footage at this point will be only slightly more than test anims.

As for the story - yeah story isn't as utterly devoid from other MMOs as they make out. But since that is the major complaint by non-MMO players, it makes sense for Bioware to call out to that audience early on (they have already said they are trying to get new MMO players rather than just steal them from WoW and other existing games).

Of course there are still plenty new things that could be done with story in an MMO, and with their RPG experience Bioware could well be the best people to do it. The potential of the companion NPCs alone has me excited.

As for the actual MMO gameplay part - well I have nothing at all to go on. Almost every MMO has teething troubles with the engine and balance it seems.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The rhetoric is tired and dated, the art looks great, the graphics don't. Not particularly interested to tell you the truth. I'm looking to Dragon Age with a weary skepticism, Bioware has sold out and gone to the dark side of gaming. Much like Blizzard all their work has become derivative and formulaic. :violin:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

SW: TOD seems like such a misguided game. It might turn out alright, but from the outset it's focusing on entirely the wrong things. "Story" (in the traditional sense like with all singleplayer BioWare games) is not what MMOs should really concern themselves with. Richer gameplay experiences, yes. More interesting worlds, yes. More community based stuff, yes. Story... ehhh? Not top priority.

Also, you don't make a good MMO by throwing a bazillion content pieces at it. Who cares if it's got the content of KOTOR times a hundred or whatever claim it is they're making? That sounds like a hamfisted approach to MMO design that will inevitably lead to a bazillion 'kill ten rats' quests.

I'm open to having my mind changed but right now I'm pretty skeptical.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SW: TOD seems like such a misguided game. It might turn out alright, but from the outset it's focusing on entirely the wrong things. "Story" (in the traditional sense like with all singleplayer BioWare games) is not what MMOs should really concern themselves with. Richer gameplay experiences, yes. More interesting worlds, yes. More community based stuff, yes. Story... ehhh? Not top priority.

Also, you don't make a good MMO by throwing a bazillion content pieces at it. Who cares if it's got the content of KOTOR times a hundred or whatever claim it is they're making? That sounds like a hamfisted approach to MMO design that will inevitably lead to a bazillion 'kill ten rats' quests.

I'm open to having my mind changed but right now I'm pretty skeptical.

I am basically in complete agreement with this. On the other hand, that trailer does remind me of everything I love about Star Wars.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Whinge whinge moan moan. People are always complaining about the weak narrative in MMO's - and now that Bioware are addressing exactly that, folks suddenly decide it is a bad thing that shouldn't even be attempted. Forgive me if I don't give a fuck about your pessimistic speculations.

Let's wait for some solid gameplay details, and in the meantime enjoy the awesomeness. The trailer is very nice indeed, and it brought my attention to the trooper class, whose announcement I missed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

-Oh, wait man, what if people make a shitty decision after thousands of hours into the game ?

-Well, we said it we keep it that way, they make a shitty decision, they take responsibility

-But we'll loose customer very quickly, people want to craft things to their will in interactive medias, if they just have to cope with all the shit they do just like in real life, everybody will leave the game !

-Ok ok... So we'll make decisions that you can't change veeeeeeeeery obvious "do you want to kill and rape that orphan (and it will lead you to the dark side) or help him for no reward at all (this will keep you on the light path) *!*!*!*!* (rememeber that when the *!*!*!*!* symbol is present, this choice cannot be canceled)?" and then "are you sure of this option ? like real sure ?"

And then the rest of the game will be like everybody else's, reversable choices, even wow got tired of the everlasting "I want to change my face man, put surgeons in the game" when they said times and times again that appearances would be the one thing you will never be able to change.

Now developpers, you will reach true next-gen when in your game, light-sabers will cut through 3D models instead of passing right throught them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was laying there, no one was using it... It kinda had it coming with this exciting little drinbling mouth after I strangled him...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I have seen a security hologram... of him... killing Younglings.

:devil:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

-Ok ok... So we'll make decisions that you can't change veeeeeeeeery obvious "do you want to kill and rape that orphan (and it will lead you to the dark side) or help him for no reward at all (this will keep you on the light path) *!*!*!*!* (rememeber that when the *!*!*!*!* symbol is present, this choice cannot be canceled)?"

Is this based on anything, or is it the aforementioned pessimistic speculation and/or your arse? :D

Anway here's some actual gameplay description, from RPS. This particular choice seems on the obvious side, but not as bad as your sarcastic fabrication.

Edited by DanJW

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wonder if the other classes will be able to draw people away from being a Jedi/Sith. On the the website there's space for 4 classes per faction (currently) which will probably be something like Trooper, Jedi, Pod racer, and Ewok.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't forget the 'small unintelligible droid' class, and 'angsty teen' class.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Is this based on anything, or is it the aforementioned pessimistic speculation and/or your arse? :D

Anway here's some actual gameplay description, from RPS. This particular choice seems on the obvious side, but not as bad as your sarcastic fabrication.

There are two things fighting in my head : on one hand, I know for a fact that Bioware has some excellent designers, on the other hand, having myself worked on an MMORPG I can assure you, people are morrons. You design something subtle ? It will be for a little bunch of people so you'll have to re-design it to give it such emphasis that it'll be ridiculously obvious but at least the time you spent on it would profit to an audience large enough to be worth the effort.

And yes, I tried to argue with a producer that internet would take care of "making the subtle obvious", it doesn't work

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I wonder if the other classes will be able to draw people away from being a Jedi/Sith. On the the website there's space for 4 classes per faction (currently) which will probably be something like Trooper, Jedi, Pod racer, and Ewok.

If they are Han Solo class and or bounty hunter class then they should.

Also if I play this I am so gonna make my character as close as possible to Travis Touchdown.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Apparently the demo at E3 included the Smuggler class for the Republic faction (basically the scoundrel from previous games). One of the class features is use of a cover system.

I'd put money on the fourth class type being a pet-class, eg republic engineers with droids as pets.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Forking Paths: During interactions with non-player characters your choices not only drive the voice-acted cut scenes, they also drive the story and your experience. In the section I played I first decided to kill a disobedient spaceship captain and the second time decided to let him live. In the resulting first scenario, a new captain takes over and her inexperience leads her to ignore pods ejecting from a ship we're attacking. Those pods later attach to our ship and I was forced to go repel the invading soldiers. In the second scenario, the captain, happy to be alive, blasts the pods as they approach the ship, allowing me to concentrate on my main task: Taking out a Jedi.

http://kotaku.com/5277689/star-wars-the-old-republic-preview-bam-here-it-is

Thing is I can foresee eventual class guides outlining which route is most beneficial for each quest and why. Like more loot from the soldiers as well as additional dark side points or something (providing you still eventually take out the Jedi.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah but if idiot people want to metagame rather than actually enjoy the thing, they will always find a way to do that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Bookaroo

ed: :getmecoat

Edited by David

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now