Fallout 3

[Wrestlevania]

Then you probably missed the mad scientist as well?

The entrance of the hatchery is on the other end of Marigold Station. Look at the local map for areas you might have not visited yet.

No, I've spoken to the lunatic.

I'm almost certain I've been all the way through that section of train line though. Must have missed something I guess, but I'm fairly meticulous usually. (That's why it takes me so long to play RPGs.)

[James]

Those! was one of the first quests I did, and also one of the most difficult yet. Perhaps I wasn't kitted out for it properly. Also, I didn't know to shoot at their antennae. I tried it, but it didn't seem to work. If you get a critical, though, they flip out and attack anything, including each other, which is pretty effective, what with all the fire.

[Nappi]

No, I've spoken to the lunatic.

I'm almost certain I've been all the way through that section of train line though. Must have missed something I guess, but I'm fairly meticulous usually. (That's why it takes me so long to play RPGs.)

Just go through the other door in his lab and turn right (if I remember correctly).

The compass will probably point you there as well if you activate the quest and there should be a marker on the minimap.

[Wrestlevania]

Thanks, guys. Sounds like I need to retrace my steps and look carefully.

[toblix]

I love the fact that after I've nearly died clearing out some cave thing out in the wastes, the scorpions and raiders will never ever ever respawn.

Right? They won't? Ever? There's no respawning right?

[Nappi]

Caves will probably remain clear (not 100% sure), but in the wasteland the random monsters will respawn.

This seems to be the case. And I think the wasteland creatures only start respawning after reaching a certain level. Or maybe it was the random encounters.

[toblix]

Jesus, to get to the family I have to go through a tunnel full of mirelurks. Or at least there was one there. I'm all beat up and my weapons are broken and ammoless. I better head back to Megaton first.

[ThunderPeel2001]

Also, I can't complete the police station mission not far from vault 101, as all the residents were killed in the first super mutant attack on the town. They've told their friends were dragged away to the police station of a nearby town, but they've not given me any directions.

You should be able to just follow one of your compass arrows north east of their location and eventually come to it... Are you sure it's not already on your map?

I too should get back into this, I was really enjoying it (although the Fire Ants mission is a bit annoying so far).

[Wrestlevania]

Jesus, to get to the family I have to go through a tunnel full of mirelurks. Or at least there was one there. I'm all beat up and my weapons are broken and ammoless. I better head back to Megaton first.

It seems, in my limited experience, that "the elements" come into a play a little with this sort of thing. For example: it seemed to me that mire lurks are very susceptible to damage from the flamer, noticeably above anything else.

Mines and other explosives always seem particularly effective against pretty much anything, though. However I haven't yet worked out how to set a mine--only drop them on the ground dormant. How do you arm them?

You should be able to just follow one of your compass arrows north east of their location and eventually come to it... Are you sure it's not already on your map?

Nope, nothing. The quest marker points to just inside the entrance of that reinforced part of the hamlet the villagers live in (now all dead). I did venture northwards myself and, after a while, found a small outpost of super mutants and centaurs at a church. I killed them fairly easily and found one human tied up inside, but he didn't mention anything about others, or unlock a different quest.

I'm a bit confused with it to be honest, which is partly why I lost interest and stopped playing. I really wanted to help the people dragged off to the police station, because this was the first non-essential quest I came across after leaving the vault. But I can't find a way to get any further, short of using something like Planet Fallout's interactive map of the Capital Wasteland*.

...and that feels like cheating to me.

* zomg spoilers!

Edit: Fuck it. I just looked at the online map anyway and Germantown - the location of the Police HQ in question - is much further north than I anticipated. I think I've only explored about half the distance between there and Vault 101 in that region.

Edited January 24, 2009 by Wrestlevania
A tiny voice, nagging away at the back of my brain.

[Nappi]

They mines are active once you throw them. Unless you are dropping them like other items in the inventory of course. They just don't activate when you step on top of them.

[Zukalous]

Anyone get a real anti-science vibe out of fallout.

- The fire ant mission is all about cleaning up after a mad geneticist.

- Doctor Lee is a cold and calculating.

- Your dad abandoned you for the sake of science.

For a game that runs on such high tech equipment I don't know why this game takes such an anti-technology slant.

You ever notice how games always portray scientists as an ethically challenged, emotionally stunted stereo-type?

[Noyb]

Anyone get a real anti-science vibe out of fallout.

- The fire ant mission is all about cleaning up after a mad geneticist.

- Doctor Lee is a cold and calculating bitch.

- Your dad abandoned you for the sake of science.

For a game that runs on such high tech equipment I don't know why this game takes such an anti-technology slant.

You ever notice how games always portray scientists as an ethically challenged, emotionally stunted stereo-type?

I think there's an important distinction between the failures of science and science in general. The scientist wanted to use genetic modification to reduce the ants' size, but failed. I don't see this as criticizing science as a whole, just a bog-standard Frankenstein message of scientific responsibility. It's pretty easy to sink into an exaggerated Luddite view when writing about the aftermath of the dangers of science (as in a terrible, terrible scene in The Sarah Connor Chronicles where Oppenheimer turns into a Terminator), but I don't see Fallout going quite that far.

I do agree that a few of the characters you mentioned are lazy stereotypes, although I disagree to an extent with the father figure. He didn't abandon the player for pure scientific research, rather to use science in order to better humanity with Project Purity. Science in the form of atomic weaponry is the reason for the post apocalyptic wasteland, but it is also its best hope for salvation. Would you say a fantasy game with a similar plot is anti-New Age beliefs if the father abandoned you to search for a magic crystal?

Science and Medicine are two important skills the player can pursue, and both the presence of the Daddy's Boy perk and the father's importance to the main questline imply that scientific research is a valid way to roleplay in addition to dumb brute strength.

To be fair, though, Bethesda seems to reuse the mad scientist cliche far too often in the game, which probably speaks more to laziness than any arching theme.

Every single vault except your own tells a similar story of a dangerous experiment on its residents. Every. Single. One.

[ThunderPeel2001]

Anyone get a real anti-science vibe out of fallout.

- The fire ant mission is all about cleaning up after a mad geneticist.

- Doctor Lee is a cold and calculating.

- Your dad abandoned you for the sake of science.

For a game that runs on such high tech equipment I don't know why this game takes such an anti-technology slant.

You ever notice how games always portray scientists as an ethically challenged, emotionally stunted stereo-type?

Spoiler much?!

[Nachimir]

Yeah, FFS. Spoiler tags please, some of us haven't completed it yet.

[DanJW]

Anyone get a real anti-science vibe out of fallout.

- The fire ant mission is all about cleaning up after a mad geneticist.

- Doctor Lee is a cold and calculating.

For a game that runs on such high tech equipment I don't know why this game takes such an anti-technology slant.

You ever notice how games always portray scientists as an ethically challenged, emotionally stunted stereo-type?

Don't foget that the in-game culture is based on the 1950s. And mostly 1950s B-movies at that. Angst about science gone wrong was a major theme.

Also, don't confuse science with technology. Nuclear Physics is science. Nuclear bombs are technology.

[Nappi]

To be fair, though, Bethesda seems to reuse the mad scientist cliche far too often in the game, which probably speaks more to laziness than any arching theme.

Every single vault except your own tells a similar story of a dangerous experiment on its residents. Every. Single. One.

I'm not sure if that was a Bethesda complaint or not but

(Fallout series spoiler)

based on what I have read about the first two titles on the excellent Fallout wiki, weren't pretty much all the vaults meant for various kinds of scientific studies instead of actually keeping people safe?

[DanJW]

I'm not sure if that was a Bethesda complaint or not but

(Fallout series spoiler)

based on what I have read about the first two titles on the excellent Fallout wiki, weren't pretty much all the vaults meant for various kinds of scientific studies instead of actually keeping people safe?

Yeah I was going to mention that too. The Penny Arcade Presents comic on the fallout 3 site states this explicitly.

[Zukalous]

Hey sorry about the spoiler up there. I thought your dad's motivation was established in the opening sequence.

To this point

I think there's an important distinction between the failures of science and science in general. The scientist wanted to use genetic modification to reduce the ants' size, but failed. I don't see this as criticizing science as a whole, just a bog-standard Frankenstein message of scientific responsibility.

If you beat THOSE! and talk to the scientist in question about the boy who gave you the quest in the first place he...

doesn't care about him and says that there is no way he could take care of the boy with such important research to be done.

My only real hangup about the Oblivion/Fallout games is that they always feel cold and emotionless. I think it is because all the characters are generalized stereotypes that have a sort of uncanny valley of emotion. You could say "well this is the apocalypse and everyone is deadpan because of it" but that would just be letting them off the hook.

[DanJW]

I agree. I like the Bethesda games, but I relate much more to the characters in games by, for instance, Bioware. Bethesda's writers seem a bit potboilerish.

[Freezerr]

There are anti-science themes in the game, certainly.

But there is a major exception...

In the (albeit terrible) ending, you can sacrifice your life for a scientific experiment. That's pretty pro-science.

[Zukalous]

There are anti-science themes in the game, certainly.

But there is a major exception...

In the (albeit terrible) ending, you can sacrifice your life for a scientific experiment. That's pretty pro-science.

But isn't that just a sign that

science just means sacrifice and death. No one wins.

[Zukalous]

But isn't that just a sign that

science just means sacrifice and death. No one wins.

Wait I just had a thought on my own last post. I guess the plot, overall, does place humanity's best hope for salvation in the development of new technology that is crafted by scientists.

I guess Bathesda just likes making its scientists a bunch of a-holes

[drummand]

Isn't the anti-science thread just a part of this kind of post-apocalyptic genre? A "science (or science run amok) has brought us to this" type thing? I'm nowhere near done with the game, though I have put in a fair few hours -- largely exploring and running the occasional errand -- so I don't know if it's spoilery exactly (cuz I'm thinking about the genre more generally), but

isn't the anti-science theme often balanced against the idea that it's science that will save us in the end?

I haven't read the above spoilers to avoid spoiling myself, so maybe that's redundant, or

maybe it's just obvious.

I might add I'm quite enjoying the game, almost in spite of myself. I don't know if Beth's writers are potboilerish so much as they're crap. Ok, that's harsh. I'd say they're decent enough at plotting, but terrible at characterization. Which I guess is a characteristic of the potboiler. So I retract that statement.

But I do wish they'd get some decent animators to populate their pretty environments.

[Wrestlevania]

Online terminal hacking assistant for Fallout 3. [via Offworld]

[toblix]

Okay, the DLC is starting to come out. Does anyone know how these are "plugged" into the game? Do they just appear somewhere in the wasteland, or are the explicitly "launched" in some way from the game?