Jake

Far Cry 2

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The map is far more open out around the edges, which is part of makes them the best parts of the game, along with how goddamn beautiful the deserts environments cna be. :tup:

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I actually started playing Far Cry 2 again this week, too.  I'd originally tried it a number of years ago, and it didn't click with me, but obviously I just wasn't ready to engage with it in the right way.  Playing it again now has been a great experience.  I don't know that I'll make it the whole way through the game, but the five or six hours I've put into it have really made me appreciate what they managed to accomplish.

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Well, today I finished the process of drinking the Idle Thumbs Kool-Aid and accepted Clint Hocking into my heart as my personal savior. I had played Far Cry 2 for about 45 minutes before getting frustrated and giving up. After listening to the Tone Control Episode with Hocking and learning that this is the standard pattern of people who suck and not giving the game enough of a chance, I went back and played a couple more hours. At that point, I felt like I understood why people liked it, and I could go on to doing other things. 

 

Then, today, I was stressed out and needed something to play, and Far Cry 2 came to mind. I played for about 4 more hours, complete with rolling grenades, Jeep chases, and an accidental zebra murder. I'm probably going to finish it this time. 

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Yeah, the last couple weeks have been stressful and I jumped from the STALKER ship back into Far Cry 2. It really is an ideal game for me to play every month or so, since it's so easy to pick up on the thread I left off: Oh, right, I was in the middle of killing these dudes while on the way to kill this other dude.

 

Spent some time last night trying to sneak into the shantytown village of Mokuba, and I'm not going to cut it with a rusty MP5, a silenced pistol, and an RPG. Time to head back to a gun shop and get a better balance of hardware.

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Oddly, Far Cry 2 has always been my 'too frustrated with STALKER to breathe anymore' break game. It provides a lot of the atmosphere of disempowerment and decay of STALKER, but with slightly less disempowerment mechanically, and the endlessly respawning trivial enemies and long distance driving suddenly feels incredibly freeing in comparison.

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I'm not entirely sure, but I think I had a Far Cry 2 guilt dream last night. As I was completing the arms dealer missions, I couldn't help but notice the similarities between what I was doing (placing IEDs in the road, waiting for convoys to pass by, and detonating them) to contemporary acts of insurgency or terrorism. Leaving aside the complex moral conversation that we could have about justifications for occupying a country, or resisting that occupation, I couldn't shake the feeling that I was only doing this at the behest of an arms dealer. So, in my dream, I was being interrogated and put on trial for my actions. I'm not sure if this is some combination of too much Far Cry just before bed, or a mingling of other fears in my life (I hear grad students heading into exams often have inquisition dreams), but that was deeply unsettling.

 

I think I'm just having trouble with the moment to moment fun of the game pushing against the bleak, horrible setting and characters. I know that's kind of the point, but it is sort of messing with my head.

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Yeah, Far Cry 2 is an interesting story.  You're a good guy, but only just.

 

You should watch the 24 made for tv movie, Redemption.  It's the Far Cry 2 of movies, but Jack Bauer has a more noble motive.

 

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Oddly, Far Cry 2 has always been my 'too frustrated with STALKER to breathe anymore' break game. It provides a lot of the atmosphere of disempowerment and decay of STALKER, but with slightly less disempowerment mechanically, and the endlessly respawning trivial enemies and long distance driving suddenly feels incredibly freeing in comparison.

 

That's a good point. In Far Cry 2 I'm always able to barely escape most of the crazy scenarios I find myself in. In STALKER I just tend to die a lot. STALKER is rad, but yeah, it's a much more oppressive experience.

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Yeah, Far Cry 2 is an interesting story.  You're a good guy, but only just.

 

You should watch the 24 made for tv movie, Redemption.  It's the Far Cry 2 of movies, but Jack Bauer has a more noble motive.

 

I don't think a bloodless glorification of violence is the Far Cry 2 of movies. The only thing the two have in common as far as I can tell is that there's a lot of yellow. Even in terms of "this movie is sort of set in the same place as Far Cry 2," Blood Diamond is a far better movie for that.

The actual Far Cry 2 of movies would be something like Fight Club: it actually has a pretty subversive message that most people miss (although in Far Cry 2 they miss it and hate it, whereas in Fight Club the miss it and love it). Or (perhaps even better?) Collateral, which makes you feel super uncomfortable about violence in the trappings of an action film. There are probably even better examples but I can't think of any right now.

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I found it mildly interesting that a RedBox at a local grocery carried Far Cry 2:

 

Y874PN3.jpg?1

 

I like to imagine that one of our dear, fellow Thumbsters stocks the box and is keeping the torch lit for the game, but it's probably some synergy bull.

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Haha they have such limited stock in those machines, it's hilarious it's in there. I would have at least thought Far Cry 3.

 

but do we really want more people playing Far Cry 3? also there is about a 75% chance that the disk is just a paper cut out with the barcode photo copied on it.

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Another Idle Thumbs-compatible analysis of Far Cry 2 (no specific reason to post, was linked on RPS Sunday Papers and I think it was a good analysis)

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I don't think a bloodless glorification of violence is the Far Cry 2 of movies. The only thing the two have in common as far as I can tell is that there's a lot of yellow. Even in terms of "this movie is sort of set in the same place as Far Cry 2," Blood Diamond is a far better movie for that.

The actual Far Cry 2 of movies would be something like Fight Club: it actually has a pretty subversive message that most people miss (although in Far Cry 2 they miss it and hate it, whereas in Fight Club the miss it and love it). Or (perhaps even better?) Collateral, which makes you feel super uncomfortable about violence in the trappings of an action film. There are probably even better examples but I can't think of any right now.

 

Playing Far Cry 2 actually reminded me of No Country for Old Men more than anything. Mechanically you basically play the game as Anton Chigurh roaming the landscape searching for cases of money with your tracking device while systematically executing scores of people - silenced shotgun optional. Thematically they both portray a kind of violence that is not just horrific but is inherently nihilistic and impossible to reason with. Aesthetically they both portray a beautiful but oppressive desert landscape contrasted against pointless gang warfare, and if you turn the music off it resembles the minimalist sound design of No Country.

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Another Idle Thumbs-compatible analysis of Far Cry 2 (no specific reason to post, was linked on RPS Sunday Papers and I think it was a good analysis)

I'm a bit surprised he didn't go into the diamond economy in Far Cry 2, and how it ties into the "world is doomed" message of the game, while also being very gamey. I think there's some fodder in examining how payment for your bad deeds in raw diamonds--of no estimable value in the player's real world experience--are only usable in the game to get guns, gun-related upgrades, and other side upgrades. In other words, you're being paid in scrip that's only usable on the sinking ship that is the world of Far Cry 2. You're not saving for retirement, a new haircut, or even a plane ride home. It's all going right back into the game's rotting economy. To look at it another way, you're more or less being paid in guns to shoot guns.

 

(The intro cinematic also hints that you blew your mission and won't be paid when you get out of things, either. It doesn't make much sense, maybe your job was to kill the J before things got bad, but you got there too late?)

Speaking of which, it would be great for a real spiritual sequel to FC2 to background simulate a claustrophobic, incestuous economy. Hardwar (a closed-ended space trader/shooter sim) had a simulated economy, and IIRC, you could actually manipulate/damage resources to the point where you could corner the market on something and make a half-killing, or even permanently damage the economy to where it couldn't recover. In Far Cry 2, blowing up a weapons caravan doesn't really have any effect, but what if you could hamstring a faction that way, or even end up with no replenishing ammo or repair parts for your favorite gun?

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Speaking of which, it would be great for a real spiritual sequel to FC2 to background simulate a claustrophobic, incestuous economy. Hardwar (a closed-ended space trader/shooter sim) had a simulated economy, and IIRC, you could actually manipulate/damage resources to the point where you could corner the market on something and make a half-killing, or even permanently damage the economy to where it couldn't recover. In Far Cry 2, blowing up a weapons caravan doesn't really have any effect, but what if you could hamstring a faction that way, or even end up with no replenishing ammo or repair parts for your favorite gun?

There's a game called OffWorld Trading Company that you may want to pay attention to when released. From what I've read, it's going for some of these things.

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Speaking of which, it would be great for a real spiritual sequel to FC2 to background simulate a claustrophobic, incestuous economy. Hardwar (a closed-ended space trader/shooter sim) had a simulated economy, and IIRC, you could actually manipulate/damage resources to the point where you could corner the market on something and make a half-killing, or even permanently damage the economy to where it couldn't recover. In Far Cry 2, blowing up a weapons caravan doesn't really have any effect, but what if you could hamstring a faction that way, or even end up with no replenishing ammo or repair parts for your favorite gun?

I've always thought that I might love something like that in a character-driven game (I forgot if there is a better term for this, I mean a game where you play a single character going through a story), but I think in reality it may turn out not to be that great because suddenly the game would be focused on doing two completely different things that may have a hard time supporting each other. E.g. what if you played a single character in Spacebase DF-9 -- it sounds cool as a sentence, but I bet it would not be an awesome action/adventure. Though some kind of mixes of this may end up good. I think Stalker Clear Sky tried to do something like that, but didn't really succeed? It's generally seen as the worst Stalker game and I still haven't played through it -- only a couple of hours of the beginning.

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I've always thought that I might love something like that in a character-driven game (I forgot if there is a better term for this, I mean a game where you play a single character going through a story), but I think in reality it may turn out not to be that great because suddenly the game would be focused on doing two completely different things that may have a hard time supporting each other. E.g. what if you played a single character in Spacebase DF-9 -- it sounds cool as a sentence, but I bet it would not be an awesome action/adventure. Though some kind of mixes of this may end up good. I think Stalker Clear Sky tried to do something like that, but didn't really succeed? It's generally seen as the worst Stalker game and I still haven't played through it -- only a couple of hours of the beginning.

You might have something there. Players often crave features that turn out not to be very much fun, or have little payoff given the development effort. I think it's more likely that I'm expressing a wish to have more of an impact on the world itself--of Far Cry 2, of any video game. So, even if I don't "really" want a simulated dreary economy in Far Cry 2, it would be nice if blowing up an arms convoy did something. Something other than unlock a new gun.

 

I mean, it's a bit like the expression, "What if you could talk to the monsters?" I don't actually want to talk to the monsters ("Eh, my monster kid isn't doing so well in monster school. My back kinda hurts."), but I enjoy the interaction that Far Cry 2 gives me, and want more.

 

Playing Half Life 2 was a weird experience for me during the character interaction bits. The NPCs went through their lines in a strangely believable, yet rehearsed way. It felt like two other artificial, real life experiences: like paid actors were standing around, delivering well-practiced lines, and waiting patiently for me to blunder over to the next switch so they could continue their linear roles. It felt like a very expensive set and play was being put on for my benefit, like something out of Total Recall (minus the entire plot). The second artificial experience it reminded me of was standing in line for a ride at Disneyland. Like in Star Tours (haven't been on it in 10 years, so I might be off here), there are these animatronic robots doing work, and C-3PO and R2 ragging on each other. They go through their pre-recorded spiel for each set of viewers. Then you turn the corner, and there they are again. It's not the same robots, though, but a different set, since you've moved forward in line. You invest in the artifice that they are the same robots you've seen from the movies to enjoy the entertainment, but you know two things: they're just going through set motions, and they're just a copy of a copy that you just saw ten feet back.

 

Playing Half Life 2, I would vacillate between three states: being Gordan Freeman, being a tourist surrounded by paid actors, and being a tourist surrounded by singular robots limited to a set script. And of course, there's the state of being a dude in a chair playing a game on a computer.

 

These aren't negative things, it's actually kind of an enjoyable way to experience a game, just appreciating the artifice on multiple levels. Games don't always have to be immersive.

 

Anyway, what I'm finally getting around to is that Far Cry 2, with its artifices (such as the weird, closed, diamond-and-gun-based economy), gives me the impression that I'm a very wealthy person who has either had constructed, or has paid a lot of money to inhabit, a sort of theme-park/safari monstrocity. I feel like I'm a wealthy tourist, shooting rubber bullets at paid actors, or sometimes real bullets at lifelike robots, like from Westworld. Sahelworld? But of course I'm a player who has paid money for a power fantasy as well.

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I've always thought that I might love something like that in a character-driven game (I forgot if there is a better term for this, I mean a game where you play a single character going through a story), but I think in reality it may turn out not to be that great because suddenly the game would be focused on doing two completely different things that may have a hard time supporting each other. E.g. what if you played a single character in Spacebase DF-9 -- it sounds cool as a sentence, but I bet it would not be an awesome action/adventure. Though some kind of mixes of this may end up good. I think Stalker Clear Sky tried to do something like that, but didn't really succeed? It's generally seen as the worst Stalker game and I still haven't played through it -- only a couple of hours of the beginning.

The STALKER series in general used something called A-Life to manage AI and spawning and economics and such like. It tried to model an economy by way of allowing the NPCs to trade with each other and to seek better gear. For example, you see a couple of neutral or friendly stalkers and trade a couple of badly worn AK's for some bandages, a couple grenades and some shotgun ammo. Once you've finished, if the other stalkers nearby are armed with worse weapons (I forget if they care more about the gun or it's repair state) they may trade their stuff around to get everyone better armed. As another, more noticeable example, if you're in a firefight alongside friendly stalkers, after the shooting is done they will sprint to the nearest corpse and start grabbing their stuff, seemingly preferring the better armed corpses to rob. Additionally, bandit movements are partially on patrol paths and partially defined by a desire to acquire wealth. Once they hit some loot threshold, they stop patrolling and head back to a base to sell it off.

Clear Sky is certainly the most buggy and (I think) the least open of the STALKER games, but also had some of the most ambitious ideas, such as faction wars, territory control, weapon upgrades and repairs and miniquests given by random NPCs. They certainly didn't succeed at this entirely, and a lot of those systems didn't pop up again in Call of Pripyat, probably because it wasn't tenable to support all of it. I still think that the A-Life system had and has a LOT of potential for creating interesting systems in a world, and then allowing you to exist in that world, it just hasn't been expressed in a contained enough way to make it apparent. 

(If you're interested in playing the STALKER series but are turned off by how rough they are, try the "Stalker Complete" series or one of the numerous bug-fix only patches. Complete fixes a lot of bugs but changes the feel of the game slightly. I prefer it, but others disagree. The Bugfix only patches keep the game the same while making a lot of things function in a sane way. If you're starting completely blind I see no issue with just starting at CoP. You may miss some story, but hey, the story is barely comprehensible and terribly translated too.)

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Alright, I'm going to give this game another go.

 

I tried twice on PS3 and just could not get hooked. Picked this up as part of the Far Cry franchise pack over the BF weekend. Currently installing.

 

Third time's the charm?

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RPS out here giving Far Cry 2 more love: 'Why Far Cry 2 Is Still The Best In The Series' Summed up a lot of my own feelings about the game and some of the same ones expressed on the 'cast. Making it my go-to article to link to when people ask about Far Cry 2.

 

 

Alright, I'm going to give this game another go.

 

Hurrah!

 

 

So uh...this doesn't load.

 

...oh.

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Steam tells me I've put 7.4 hours into this game so far. And for whatever reason, I'm still finding it hard to play.

 

The thing is, I can't stop playing it. I think having the ability to hit F5 and save at any given time makes the PC version far more forgiving than it was on consoles, which is a boon. I still think the mission design is really dumb though, and the music is pretty fucking abysmal.

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Steve Gaynor loaded up Far Cry 2 this afternoon and played a bit: http://www.twitch.tv/stevegaynor/c/5910155

 

I tuned in to see him marvel over God rays and waterfalls before immediately having two jeeps slam into him.

 

I guess people can consider that fun?

 

Then again, I spent the entire day failing the Solar System challenge in The Binding of Isaac Rebirth and I don't consider that fun at all.

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