DanJW Posted October 16, 2008 All those explanations in the links still fail to provide a situation in which the exact phrase "which begs the question..." should be used. They all refer to "begging the question" which is not a wording I have ever used. This suggests to me that it's a load or pretentious shite and I should carry on using the phrase as-is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Roderick Posted October 16, 2008 There is never a situation in which 'which begs the question' can ever properly be used, because that way of saying it doesn't make sense. It's not a synonym for 'which raises the question'. The correct wording is 'that begs the question', or 'you're begging the question', when someone's doing that thing with all the A's and B's. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanJW Posted October 16, 2008 So maybe it works how people expect and the correctionists are attacking a straw man! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Roderick Posted October 16, 2008 Hey, whatever floats your boat =) I have no personal stake in how you use language. I'm trying to figure this out for myself. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wrestlevania Posted October 17, 2008 If no-one can really agree on how to use this phrase, it begs the question: should I give a fuck? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miffy495 Posted October 17, 2008 There is never a situation in which 'which begs the question' can ever properly be used, because that way of saying it doesn't make sense. It's not a synonym for 'which raises the question'. The correct wording is 'that begs the question', or 'you're begging the question', when someone's doing that thing with all the A's and B's. Actually, your saying this is a statement which begs the question. The simplest way to describe question begging is arguing a conclusion based on the presupposition that it is already true. You attempt to show that saying "which begs the question" cannot be a workable phrase by introducing alternate phrases. The necessity for these occurs if "which begs the question" is not a workable phrase. You assume that your conclusion is true, (that "which begs the question" is improper wording) take a premise based off of it, (that the phrases you suggested are the only proper wording) and then arrive at your conclusion. (that other phrases than those you suggested are improper) ...just saying Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Roderick Posted October 17, 2008 Pretty smart. But back to defining the fucking thing: is it as simply as 'assuming that the conclusion is true in the argument'? And does 'circular reason' fall into the category, or not entirely? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zaarin Posted October 17, 2008 http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/beg_the_question - Wiktionary is just as confusing as you guys. How about agreeing never to use it? That'd be way easier. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wrestlevania Posted October 17, 2008 I certainly couldn't care less. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
n0wak Posted October 17, 2008 I certainly couldn't care less. For all intensive purposes, let's declare this discussion closed. This is my concerted effort. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miffy495 Posted October 17, 2008 Pretty smart. But back to defining the fucking thing: is it as simply as 'assuming that the conclusion is true in the argument'? And does 'circular reason' fall into the category, or not entirely? Not quite. It's a little more subtle than that. It's not that there's an explicit assumption, it's more that the premises you base the argument off of require that your conclusion is true in order to be proven true themselves. This is very easily done without knowing it, which is why the fallacy is so common. I hope that answers the question well enough, as the others appear to be getting sick of this thread... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ThunderPeel2001 Posted October 26, 2008 Aye, I get it now It's pretty simple really... although I can't think of any good examples off the top of my head Oh course though: 'Begs the question' is not a synonym for 'which raises the question'. It IS! (Now -- Thanks to the mutation of language and people never really understanding it in the first place.) Of course, I will endeavour to use it in its original and 'correct' incarnation so that I might feel superior. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites