Metal Gear Solid 4 - Guns of the Saucer Men From Mars

[blackboxme]

Quick check,

Did anybody else think that MGS4 was a Video game interpretation of the novel Notes from the Underground?

[Nappi]

I think I promised to post my thoughts on this game so I will even though I might be a bit late. In somewhat chronological order:

• The tv shows at the beginning
  
• The egg cooking scene
  
• Hideo Kojima's name revealed when Solid snake picks up the gun.
  
• Pressing X for a worthless flashback.
  
• "Their numbers exceed the war price for that region"
  
• Ridiculously complex controls.
  
• Finding out that you actually got Drebin points for watching those worthless flashbacks.
  
• Finding out what that egg cooking scene was all about.
  
• The dracula.
  
• Most of the jungle.
  
• Listening to the cries of people getting killed, then the sounds of love making and finally a detailed description of a little girl being forced to play with her parents' and friends' intestines while your mother is laying on the sofa behind you.
  
• The Final Fantasy dude. :tup continued :tdown
  
• The awkward scene being awkward for all the wrong reasons. :tdown :tdown
  
• Trailing a guy in an Eastern European setting. :tup :tup
  
• Eastern European filter. :tdown
  
• Boss, Big Boss, Ocelot, Liquid :tmeh :tmeh
  
• The Thriumph. :tup
  
• "It's so easy for them to get absorbed by these war games.."
  

And that's how I far I have managed to get so far.

Also, could someone finally fix those thumb smilies? The forum only allows 15 pictures per post.

[James]

• The tv shows at the beginning

Yeah, the adverts were my favourite thing about the game. I don't mean that as a slight to the game itself; they were just so out of the blue and well-made and surreal and (lazy word ahoy) evocative. After such a weird and unexpected intro, the main story couldn't avoid seeming a little mundane, despite its craziness. To get all pretentious about it, it seemed like a very convincing peek into another world, which is something that appeals to me a lot (it's what I look for in a lot of music, for example).

My favourite was the one with the two women doing flying kicks at one another while tiny military vehicles and walking cities fought it out beneath them.

[toblix]

Summary: I hate this game and have stopped playing it.

Full post: Not to bump an old thread just to complain, but I just ejected MGS4 and put it back in its case. The game was still running as the disc came out of the tray, and it went on for what seems like a second or two, as if it didn't realize I was not going to play any more.

What a fucking piece of shit this game is. Oh, it has style, flair and polish. This is a triple-A game all right. It has tons of shit everywhere. But it's insides are so rotten there's no actual fun or enjoyment to be had! After being spotted by PMC guards or whatever for the hundredth time, thus having to walk into the street and stand around waiting for them to kill me properly so I can reload and try again, I had this brief moment of clarity where I saw the game, the real game, and it's a joke and a scam.

I'm just being told it's a great game, both by its reputation and by the game itself as I'm playing it. It has all this expensive polish, and feels like a big budget movie. It's weird with all its pervy crap and its love for the scatological, and it mixes in live action video and lets me control a robot to pick up power-ups and switch cameras and maximize windows, all while trying to watch a cut-scene, and it's all just a ruse. Oh, this game experience is so special because I don't understand why they made it this way, why everyone speaks so slowly and grunt all the time, why they have a black man and a monkey selling guns, why they keep installing the game while I'm playing it (while giving me tips on when and where to smoke), and why they have a five minute sequence about a hidden man shitting diarrhea inside a barrel. Jesus, if this crap had happened in a game with less hype and a smaller budget for superfluous stuff like sound, graphics and music I would discard it as a joke. This game is the very manifestation of polishing a turd, and I'm happy to be free of its spell.

Actually, I think it was my non-enjoyment of my Shadow Complex 100% achievement gathering sessions that pushed me over the edge. I keep getting hung up on having these huge projects that I tell myself I have to complete, and whenever I do something else I get all stressed about not instead chipping away at this meaningless backlog of unimportant shit. This is the second time I've done this (the first being with Resident Evil 4: Wii Edition), and I hope it's not the last. This time it was certainly easier.

edit: Just wanted to add that this was written one minute after ejecting the game in anger, and is therefore much too angry and hateful. A more diplomatic review would be "It's a great game, but not for me".

Edited August 28, 2009 by toblix

[ThunderPeel2001]

Sounds fair enough if that's the reaction the game has elicited in you!

[Thrik]

Hahaha. Though I will point out that if you're not fighting the PMC soldiers and escaping rather than just giving up and letting yourself be killed, you're doing it wrong.

[Garple]

I just started playing this yesterday, and I really like that the stealth has more context than most other games. There's a war going on (granted it's not technically dynamic but it does a decent job of feeling that way...for example: "oh...there's a couple of guys nearby and I don't want to be seen? Well there's also a lot of artillery fire, I can wait for them to be shelled). In other words, all the dudes who are running around are busy fighting a war and aren't really paying that much attention...which I think is how this would be in real life. So during a skirmish, sneaking around is easier, you just have to not be super obvious and everyone will be too distracted to see you. I like this; it's an interesting contrast to other stealth games in which it feels like every person is just kind of standing around or pacing a small route waiting to catch you up to no good which makes it feel less like the situation its trying to replicate and more like a game of capture the flag (real life Capture-the-Flag, not the FPS mode). I mean, I enjoy Hitman: Blood Money, somewhat, but during what I've played of it, I can't help feeling that the people are just sort of standing around or moving on preassigned routes just to act as obstacles for me. Obviously, this sort of thing is going to be the case in most video games, because sequences in video games are the very definition of contrived, but it makes a world of difference when the game makes an effort to cover these things up with convincing details. I've talked before about suspension of disbelief in games, and I recognize that you need to accept the limitations of the medium in order to enjoy it, but it's also important for games to hold up their end of the bargain and present you something that your imagination can run with.

Another thing: This game is extremely linear, I know, but much like Half-Life 2, it doesn't feel that way because of the way that the game is structured. I'm constantly being pushed off the obvious path and end up backtracking or taking odd turns and looking for "secret passageways" because while the game (with the map and the Codec messages) encourages me to go straight, it throws a bunch of soldiers in the way, whom I'd like to avoid. This creates a nice feeling of dynamism, in that I know where I need to go but I often feel like I'm discovering a alternative route...like I'm changing my plans on the fly. I know that's pretty much an illusion, but video games are all about illusions, so it seems ok.

So far, I really like this game. I'm glad I finally decided to ignore all the Kojima criticism on the internet and give it a try. I can certainly see why other people don't like it much, but I've yet to encounter something that makes me agree.

This game seems like it'd be a great catalyst for discussion, and if IdleThumbs does do a forum member podcast, maybe a Metal Gear episode would be neat.

Also: I find it interesting that this AAA game is so divisive (among the 'serious' gaming population if not the general populace). Usually a game of this magnitude can't or won't be bold enough to engender such strong feelings on both sides of the line. And, at least Kojima is trying to push what can be done in games, even if his methods are often misguided.

[JonCole]

I actually managed to pick up MGS4 from the Amazon Black Friday stuff so I'll be playing it in the near future, though probably after I burn through the glut of holiday games from this year. Might get a chance to play it towards the end of the month, if I had to bet on it.

[Thrik]

I just played it through for the third time on EXTREME during this past couple of weeks, incidentally. And holy shit!

It is surprising how much difference it makes. Whereas on normal and even hard you can kind of deal with being spotted by the enemy and just run away, on extreme it's totally unforgiving — very much like the previous games. As in a few shots and you're dead.

So you're really forced into examining every potential action really carefully by surveying ahead, which takes me back to playing Commandos on the PC. It's really high stakes too because you can't do that CQC ground slam thing on extreme without alerting nearby enemies, inevitably resulting in death.

I've had some of the tensest gaming moments ever while playing it on extreme. For example I took some guy out in the most fancy, awesome way ever, but then while getting out of there like a twat I made a loud footstep and someone downstairs heard. He came to look around, saw nothing dodgy, and began to walk away. Then my heart sank as I realised he'd see the corpse's legs poking from round the corner — so I immediately sprinted towards the bastard and just as he realised what was going on and went for his radio I grabbed him and threw him into the wall.

The game has been full of awesome moments on extreme. If you ever replay it, make sure it's on extreme. Hard isn't a great deal different to normal, but fuck me on extreme their vision and hearing is basically on par with yours and the fact that it's so difficult to deal with alert situations really gets your adrenalin going and makes you feel like Jack Bauer when you successfully pull off a perfect panic move.

I really like how MGS approaches difficulty. I replayed Twin Snakes, MGS2, and MGS3 before this and while they all do the obvious such as increase enemy damage, the way that the AI is improved and many things are subtly altered (enemies in unexpected places, less rations, certain items missing, etc) really makes it a whole new experience every time — with more emphasis on stealth.

[DanJW]

Well I finally got this. I enjoyed it a lot... but it didn't replace MGS3 as my favourite in the series (I know people's tastes differ on this). TO me Snake Eater is just more grounded, less histrionic in its characterisation and plotting and maybe even has slightly better dialogue. For example, while I like the Otakon character, his episodes of blubbing just make me roll my eyes. The third game had me caring for the characters and I even shed a tear at the end - while I find modern Solid Snake and co interesting I'm not nearly as invested in them emotionally (

obviously the high points for me were the reappearances of Eva and Big Boss, bless them.

)

I also don't think 'Guns' explored its sub-theme of war as well as the previous games did (from memory... MGS1 = war's effect on progress and technology, 2 = war's effect on psychology and perceptions, 3 = war's effect on and use in politics, 4 = war's effect on economy and the world as a whole? Or as others have noted; gene, meme, scene and sense, respectively). As a whole, I'd say the series was mainly about the long term effects of war on the people caught up in it. "The private lives of war heroes", if you like. That the games, individually and as a series, even have a strong themes that you can tease out and ruminate on is something that makes them stand out from most others. Even if it occasionally gets heavy handed with it, the most powerful moments do exist more subtly.

Still a pretty good end to the series; I'm kind of glad they answered so many mysteries. The end boss fight was suitably epic (not to mention the 70 minute ending cutscenes... ugh). I'm on my second playthrough now, so a more detailed consideration may follow.

Edited March 10, 2010 by DanJW

[Sombre]

Just put a cap on it, and really pleased I did so. Enjoyed the true ending to the series, so glad I've finally managed to put a cap on it.

The fight on top of the boat, with the characters going through their 4 phases of development was just magical.

Enjoyed this game a lot!

[Thrik]

So in other news Hideo Kojima has labelled Metal Gear Solid: Rising the next-generation MGS5 and says the Peace Walker team has now moved over to full-steam development on it (presumably including himself).

Fuckin' hell.

But yeah the last fist fight was excellent, a fantastic nod to all the previous games' use of a fist fight towards the end.

Shit man, you're making me want to replay this again after only doing so for the third time half a year ago. Unfortunately I've now completed it on Extreme (which completely changes how you have to play it btw) so I guess the only next step is tranquilisers only.

[Sully907]

It really was an awesome game. The story was definitely convoluted, but they managed to tie up most of the loose ends well enough. I actually have a save before the metal gear fight and the final fight just to be able to relive those moments again.

[Thyroid]

So in other news Hideo Kojima has labelled Metal Gear Solid: Rising the next-generation MGS5 and says the Peace Walker team has now moved over to full-steam development on it (presumably including himself).

Meh, he said Peace Walker was MGS5. Those crazy "auteurs" will say a lot of weird things, especially for recognition and/or sales. Whatever.

[Garple]

Just put a cap on it

I imagined you putting a little sailor's cap on the game so that it looked like Donald Duck.

[Thrik]

Tee I know Kroms, apparently he now considers Peace Walker the handheld MGS5 and Rising the console MGS5.

But at least it's not just going to be a mad spin-off as I was kind of suspecting. I think the whole 'action' tagline thing that got everyone in a huff was just typical Kojima misdirection and it'll probably feature a Snake of some sort to boot.

[Thrik]

It really was an awesome game. The story was definitely convoluted, but they managed to tie up most of the loose ends well enough. I actually have a save before the metal gear fight and the final fight just to be able to relive those moments again.

Haha. Play the final fist fight on extreme and you'll never want to relive it again. I literally spent about three hours straight at it, frequently getting to the Ocelot section only for one CQC move to take me right back to the beginning. It's like a chemically synthesised brew of the most unforgiving arcade fighters in history. Yet still awesome.

The Metal Gear fight was pretty insane on extreme too, although it did make me learn how to properly use REX's CQC moves. I didn't realise it has special moves depending on location — at one point REX started twatting the fuck out of RAY against a pillar.

[miffy495]

Damn, now I want to do another series replay. My problem with Metal Gear is that every time I want to play one, I end up making myself play ALL of them. I just really love the games, and every game has something different to love. I have MGS1 on my PSP, so maybe I should start that up at work tonight. Or maybe not. I have way too much on my plate right now. Why oh why did you bring this thread back?

[Thrik]

I really want them to do a re-release on the PS3 like they did with God of War, but I suspect if they did there's no chance Twin Snakes would end up in the pack despite being absolutely perfect as an alternative to MGS1.

Pity as I literally can't replay MGS1 any more as the superior fidelity in Twin Snakes makes so much difference — the original sits on the wrong side of the 3D boom for my liking. Guess I'll have to dig out the Wii each time forever.

[syntheticgerbil]

Pity as I literally can't replay MGS1 any more as the superior fidelity in Twin Snakes makes so much difference — the original sits on the wrong side of the 3D boom for my liking. Guess I'll have to dig out the Wii each time forever.

I'm going to have nothing to really add to this thread for maybe years since I'm still plowing through Substance at the moment, but I want to say I agree with this despite people who hate Twin Snakes for other differences.

I can't stand the 32 bit era 3D and even to an extent most Nintendo 64 games just for the lack of of clarity. I know both systems ran most games in 320x240 if not all, but something seems smoother or more playable with the 3D in many 64 games. Often though, I can hardly see what I'm doing and tend to feel sick when I play these type of games. I dread having to get to an early 3D version in a series, but it really doesn't happen TOO often. Even shaky textures jittering around upon movement makes me feel awful.

I admit I have not ever played the original Metal Gear Solid past the Tank Hangar on Playstation, but Twin Snakes was so much more refreshing to play. I finally finished VR Missions a month ago, and I felt like I was playing a much more primitive game. Any part requiring me to shoot a gun was so frustrating because I could hardly see what I was doing or where I was aiming.

[Thyroid]

Not to turn this into a Peace Walker thread, but why is - okay, spoilers, but this quite frankly is ridiculous even for Kojima - why is

Snake fighting fucking dinosaurs

?

. That can't possibly be part of the story, can it?

[syntheticgerbil]

I think that's supposed to be a side thing for a Monster Hunter crossover much like the Snake vs. Monkey thing with the Ape Escape games.

Edited May 4, 2010 by syntheticgerbil

[Thyroid]

Oh yeah. I'd forgotten about those. Heh. Too bad I'm skipping on this game. I'm tired of the Metal Gear series. I'd have liked to shoot down a bunch of dinosaurs, provided I didn't get a 2 minute cutscene stretched into a 40 minute pseudo-philosophy lesson. But the bits I saw of the game put me off, so...*shrug*

Edit: I also don't want to give Kojima any self-satisfaction, as I'm a little wary of the guy. For example, and this might be satirical or intentionally ironic, but his brief 1 second cameo in MGS4 is credited as "Voice of God". Similarly, in Peace Walker, and according to Wikipedia,

the character Cécile Cosina Caminades is pronounced "Seshiiru Kojima Kaminandesu" in Japanese, a play on Kojima, kami nan desu, or "Kojima, he's definitely a god"

. I just can't stand that kind of ego, and I don't think Kojima has a particularly good handle on irony.

Edited May 4, 2010 by Kroms

[Garple]

I read on Kotaku that they might release Peace Walker as a PSN game for PS3 in addition to the main PSP release. If they do, I hope they can upscale the graphics or something.

[Thrik]

Oh Kroms you do need to lighten up when it comes to these industry figures. Considering the silly content so prevalent in his games I'd imagine Kojima is quite a self-deprecating and light-hearted guy — I really doubt he's using those credits as some kind of epic ego boost. It's just a joke!