The Great "Rock Band" European Rip-Off!

[ThunderPeel2001]

Argh. Not only have we had to wait for no less than 4 months just to get a RELEASE DATE for ONE platform, but now EA has decided, in its infinite wisdom, to double, yes, DOUBLE the price for European "Rock Band" buyers.

There will be two packages for sale (dollar prices included to let our US based readers in on the controversy) :

"Rock Band: Band in a Box" (RRP £130 / $250)

This is JUST the instruments needed to play Rock Band, guitar, drums and mic. The game itself is NOT included.

"Rock Band: Solus" (RRP £50 / $100)

This is JUST the game. (Note: Imported copies will not work outside of US/Canada.)

This brings the combined RRP for both packages in Europe to £180 ($350) compared to the $170 (£90) RRP in the US (and that's the RRP, so it's actually available for less than that in a lot of places!).

As you can imagine, this has ruffled quite a few feathers, and on Amazon.co.uk, Rock Band already has a 1 out of 5 rating, and many scathing reviews.

Here's what we know so far (and it would be nice to keep this thread up to date with news and developments, so if you're as annoyed as me, chip in!):

XBOX 360

Release Date: 23rd May 08

RRP (both packages): £180 ($350)

Cheapest: £140 ($270) from Play.com or Amazon.co.uk

PS3: Nothing known

Wii: Nothing known

PS2: Nothing known

What's the most cost effective way of picking up the apparent awesome might of Rock Band? :/

[Noyb]

That sounds so idiotic on so many levels. Did the EA pricesetters not understand currency conversion? I thought the business model for Rock Band would be to get as many packages out there, and then nickel-and-dime the consumers with some of the most tolerable DLC around. I've been having fun with Rock Band, but nowhere near $350 fun. Have EA responded at all to the community backlash yet?

Edit: Found this post on the Rock Band forums by one of the developers.: http://www.rockband.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42720

[ThunderPeel2001]

Pretty interesting, with some good points. Hmmm. Still don't understand why they couldn't reduce the price of the actual game, though. It's RRP is £50, which is $90... almost the price of the entire game including peripherals in the US.

[LOPcagney]

Pretty interesting, with some good points. Hmmm. Still don't understand why they couldn't reduce the price of the actual game, though. It's RRP is £50, which is $90... almost the price of the entire game including peripherals in the US.

Yeah. Normal price is around £30, right?

Since it sounds like most of the mark-up is because of the peripherals, I assume the £50 price-tag on the disc is to take some of the weight off the cost of the peripherals, so that no one purchase is insanely high.

[Roderick]

So basically the doubling of price is because of:

1. High shipping cost

2. Higher taxes (almost 20% in the Netherlands)

3. The ability for stores here to sell below the suggested retail price (which is never going to be more than a fraction of the cost)

I'm sorry, but that still doesn't justify a doubling up. I don't see that as a reasonable explanation. It'll have more to do with Europe being used to paying hugely more for everything, and folks being able to get away with it.

[Marek]

Sounds like those reasons might make up for half of the difference at max. The other half is probably just a business move. The game is a proven seller in the US even though its priced higher than most games... might as well price it a little higher before price drop a while later? It has to be something like that.

I'm glad I'm personally not affected by this price change as I will soon have regular access to an imported US version (woo).

[ysbreker]

Don't expect to get away with that excuse! I still expect a rockband party at your place, mister!

[Ginger]

It's because we are not as fat as the Americans so there is less force pushing our ass checks together and hence we are more open to a good hard rogering, and speaking for the British, much more likely to say thank you very much afterwards.

Don't buy it and encourage others not to, this price discrimination is disgusting, teach them that we won't accept such action. I know it is hard as you probably want to play it, but consider the impact on future games if it sells well despite it's doubling in price.

[DanJW]

It really is out of order. And then companies bitch and whine when people import stuff. If it is financially viable for an individual to import a single item, then it follows that it would be more so for a large company importing en mass.

[Ginger]

If it is financially viable for an individual to import a single item, then it follows that it would be more so for a large company importing en mass.

That is specious reasoning.

[elmuerte]

shipping costs!? what shipping costs?

You mean shipping plastic guitars from China to the EU? I can buy plastic toy guitars imported from China for much less than the difference in shipping costs for the plastic rock back toys between US and EU.

[DanJW]

That is specious reasoning.

You're a specious reasoning!

OK OK, I don't care how or why, but the whole thing stinks and I hope they lose some money and realise their mistake.

[syntheticgerbil]

Edit: Found this post on the Rock Band forums by one of the developers.: http://www.rockband.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42720

I really don't like the bad attitude some of the American customers have in that thread. Like this one for instance:

"Keep banging your head against the wall then. It has been explained to you by members of this forum and now and "unofficial" statement by Harmonix but you still dont want to look at it from any other view point but your own. US gets it for $170.00 plus 8% sales tax in my area meaning I paid $183.60 out the door. But, I pay $400 a month for health insurance plus co-pays and deductibles to go to the doctor. Europeans pay more for Rock Band but cheaper or even free in some places health care. Fine case of Capitialism vs Socialism if I have ever seen one."

Not to mention how incredibly messed up healthcare is in the good ol' U S of A, yet we pay socialized type taxes anyways like Medicare and FICA, none of which we ever see back. I hate those Republican types here who think there is absolutely nothing wrong with the way most of the US can't afford healthcare just because they are well off and will never have to face hard times because of their rich mommies and daddies.

Anyways, since I was getting off track, 8% sales tax is nothing like a double the price mark up, and shipping is in no way that expensive. When I have UK customers that buy things from me when I sell on Ebay, it's never much of hit, usually about the same it would cost me to ship the same item to Canada. Everyone overseas is either being ripped off incredibly for Rock Band or someone doesn't know how to add up costs at the publishing company. Maybe some of both.

I also do not agree with the Harmonix guy that one of the reasons they charge so much is because there will not be as many Rock Band products made because there will be much less purchases in the UK. Elastic product my ass. I mean they don't do that for any other game, why do it for a game that is guaranteed to sell tons of copies either way? Majesco didn't charge 90 dollars for Psychonauts because they knew it was an elastic product and would sell less. The size of peripherals does not make up for this type of gouging in my opinion.

[Roderick]

What does health care have to do with any of this? That's the 'children in Africa are worse off' argument. Well, of course they are, but how does that justify another wrong altogether? Oh, right, in no way.

The health care system in the US is crappy indeed, by the way. Dutch health care got a hit too recently; we're all paying a lot more suddenly.

[Dr.Gash]

Just wanted to register a similar level of dismay at the cost in Europe. A 100% mark up is ludicrous, and while I don't necessarily think this is a case of getting Effed in the A due to corporate greed (darn those bigwig fatcat city-types wakka wakka), I do think it highlights extremely poor logistical planning on the part of the Publisher/Distributor.

The biggest Fuck You I've felt yet as a European Consumer. Definitely won't be buying Rock Band til the price drops dramatically.

[toblix]

Me neither, although I always say that!

[Wrestlevania]

"Hey, kids -- welcome to 'Mickey Mouse Economics*' with me, Wrestlevania!"

US game and instruments = $190 (inc. 10% tax) = ~£100 (ex. VAT)

US game only (derived EU %) = ~$58 (inc. 10% tax) = ~£30 (ex. VAT)

EU instruments only = £130 - 17.5% = ~£111 (11% markup)

EU game only = £50 - 17.5% = ~£43 (43% markup)

So, are we really expected to believe EA are paying £19 per instrument pack for shipping? Absolute horse-shit; with distribution costs that fucked up they'd have been out of business years ago.

And when you crunch the numbers on selling the game separately too, it's just bare-faced profiteering. The game's unplayable without the instrument pack, unless - and I think this is critical - you've already got a GH guitar.

To my mind, that's the only reason for the unbundling -- cultivate some positive mindshare, amongst people satisfied with just the guitar aspect, by way of, "at least they're not forcing me to buy another guitar again!"

It's the usual EU cash-grab, nothing more. Robbing bastards...

* Obviously I didn't study maths at degree level. Or any other level really.

[ThunderPeel2001]

US Game Only is $60 without tax, so $66 would be fairer, I think.

Also, FWIW, I've seen eBay shipping prices £25 just for shipping the game *within* the UK. From the US you're looking at no less than £50 across the board. Hmmm.

Here's the officially "unofficial" line in totality (for those who may have skipped it):

Hi, I’m Greg. I run product development at Harmonix, and have some insight into the RB European pricing controversy. I haven’t been authorized by my corporate masters to comment on this topic, so these comments should only be attributed to me. Here’s what I’d say in response to the Euro pricing complaints if I were so authorized.

First of all, we pay close attention to all the customer and fan comments that come our way, in the forums and elsewhere. We are in this for the long haul, and we know that customer satisfaction is the key to our long-term success. We can’t keep everyone happy all the time, but be assured that we all show up every day and work hard to make Rock Band as good as it can be in every way that we know how. This isn’t corporate BS, this is how we really feel. So:

We’re not making a killing on Rock Band in Europe. We are incredibly sensitive to pricing issues. We are painfully aware that the higher the price we charge, the less copies we’ll sell. That is true of any nonessential commodity; it’s not rocket science. Given that our ambition is to establish Rock Band as the premier music game title in Europe, we are strongly motivated to keep the price as low as possible. That said, we don’t propose to lose money on it. The fact of the matter is, the costs of releasing in Europe are far higher than in the US, in some ways uniquely so for Rock Band compared to other game titles, because of the size of the peripherals. Oh, before you ask: no, I’m not going to share details of our cost structure. That would probably get me fired, and rightly so. This is just general information collected and presented for your convenience. Some specifics :

--For a box the size of the RB box, shipping costs are really high, and far higher than in the US. Why so high? I have no idea; I make games for a living and have no deep knowledge of the world of European shipping. But it’s a fixed cost that doesn’t apply to conventional games, for which shipping costs are a far smaller percentage of the retail price. Seriously, I was shocked to learn how much it costs us to ship an RB peripherals box to Europe. It’s way more than you’d expect.

--It is a bit misleading to compare the US Suggested Retail Price (SRP) and the UK Suggested Retail Price as apple-to-apples, in two key ways.

1. The European SRP incorporates the VAT tax, but AFAIK, there aren’t any further taxes piled on at retail. In the US, the SRP doesn’t include state and local sales taxes. These vary from state to state, (and don’t exist at all in a few states), but a reasonable rule of thumb is that US customers are paying an additional 5% on top of the SRP. So the appropriate full-bundle US price to compare against isn’t $169.00, but more like $177.50.

2. Another key distinction between the US and Europe: games generally sell for the SRP at all retail outlets in the US. Wal-Mart, Target, Best Buy, Gamestop, etc all charge the SRP for games, with rare exceptions. It is my understanding that European SRP incorporates a hefty retail markup, but that European retailers are free to discount if they so choose. So European retail customers have a reasonable chance of paying less than the SRP, unlike US customers, almost all of who paid the full SRP plus sales taxes. So a reasonable price comparison is what you actually pay, not just the SRP, which means two different things in the two territories.

--This is probably already well understood by folks on these forums, but the built-in VAT tax boosts the price by an additional 17.5% in the UK, and more elsewhere in Europe. That’s not the whole discrepancy, but it’s a big chunk of it.

To recap my main point: we’re not gouging you, primarily because doing so doesn’t serve our interests. We can only build our franchise if you buy our games. You may conclude that Rock Band isn’t worth the price charged, and that is your prerogative. But it’s not magically going to get cheaper because you wish it to be so.

Final point: is it worth the money? You can all be the judge of that once you’ve had a chance to play it for yourselves. Obviously, we’re biased at Harmonix; we live and breathe this game. But we’ve sold a ton of these in the U.S. at a far higher price point than people are used to paying for a video game, because it really is a new and different experience that you have to experience to believe. Once you get a crack at it, you’ll know whether or not it’s worth the money. We think you might decide that it is. OK, I’m going back to work. Thanks for listening.

***UPDATE***

There have been some questions on this thread about why we didn’t simply ship full bundles including the software in Europe, as we did in the US. It is a good question, and the answer isn’t totally obvious. Like the last post, this is my unauthorized personal opinion, and carries no official weight. That said, here are some reasons why:

1. The peripherals are manufactured in China, but the software is manufactured in Europe (Mike?). In order to bundle the software, we would need to set up a bundling facility, ship all the peripherals to it, open each box to insert the software, then re-pack it into containers and route it to the distribution centers. This is very expensive to do in Europe, and we are actually focused on trying to keep costs down; see earlier post. It isn’t really possible to do the bundling in China, since the peripherals shipping is done by boat (airfreight would be insanely expensive for boxes that big), and the peripherals need to leave China before the software development is complete.

2. The game disc and peripherals are identical for all European territories, but the manuals have to be localized for each country, so in practice the software package is different for each country. That means that for each territory that we launch into (currently UK/France/Germany), we’d need to build and track separate bundles. If we were to launch into additional territories in the future, then we’d be obliged to track even more unique bundles. This also has big inventory-management challenges. For example, if the game ends up selling really well in Germany, but not in France, then we’d have a warehouse full of French bundles and no inventory for Germany. For a region like Europe, it just makes more sense to treat the software and hardware separately. This wasn’t an issue in the US, since it’s one giant (mostly) English-speaking country.

3. Given that the game is expensive (which we acknowledge), we want to provide some alternate options for purchase than the entire bundle at one go. If you already own a USB microphone, it will probably work with Rock Band. Depending on the console you own, other controllers you own may (OR MAY NOT! See lengthy commentary elsewhere on this forum) work with Rock Band. Providing standalone software and peripherals may give you an opportunity to get into Rock Band at a lower price, depending on your situation.

I hope this helps to clarify that specific point.

[Nappi]

Perhaps maybe.

[Erkki]

If that's true, I'll be getting it for sure, if enough units reach such a remote place as Estonia. Considering I still don't even have an Xbox 360 (will probably get it around GTA IV launch), that 240 € price would be too much for me.

[edit] oh, and I forgot the wuxtry Estonian addition to the price. For example Xbox 360 Elite costs about 380 £ (480 €) here, I understand that it's dropped to around 260 £ in the UK. It's possible that some places have it cheaper, but this seems to be the usual price.

[edit2] actually, I found it for 330 £, but seems more sensible to order from game.co.uk for 260 + 3 £ for shipping. Could there be any differences between the versions or are all European versions the same?

[Scrobbs]

Just plug differences I reckon. Manufacturers try to make EU versions the same to reduce hardware manufacturing costs. The advantage of the 360's power brick is that the power cable is a seperate item from the brick itself, so should be fairly easy to locate a locally shaped powercable to just plug into it.

[Spaff]

Omfg it's Axl Bronstring rocking out for Europe, maybe he will stage a benefit gig for all the people with raped wallets.

\m/ \m/

[BooJaka]

"Hey, kids -- welcome to 'Mickey Mouse Economics*' with me, Wrestlevania!"

US game and instruments = $190 (inc. 10% tax) = ~£100 (ex. VAT)

US game only (derived EU %) = ~$58 (inc. 10% tax) = ~£30 (ex. VAT)

EU instruments only = £130 - 17.5% = ~£111 (11% markup)

EU game only = £50 - 17.5% = ~£43 (43% markup)

Don't forget though that you can only get the EU version as two seperate things, not as a bundle so unless there really is a price retraction it's more like...

US game and instruments = $190 (inc. 10% tax) = ~£100 (ex. VAT)

EU game and instruments = £180 -17.5% = ~£149

Not much difference but it makes it a 49% markup overall

[Wrestlevania]

Fair point, but I'm sure someone with an actual understanding of international commerce would probably rip me a new one over those numbers anyway...

[BooJaka]

Well that's certainly not me. That's the best I could cobble together using my music degree...