Guitar Hero III (and demo!)

[Aussie Ben]

Yeah, warning bells for Guitar Hero III really started going off when I saw this:

Interesting choice of words and emphasis, I thought. It really seems to have taken the whole "okay, let's have fun and see who's the best" vibe that the previous games gave, and instead replaced it with "HA HA YOU JERK, YOU SUCK, WOW I MADE YOU FAIL, YOUR STRING BROKE GEEZ YOU CAN'T PLAY FOR SHIT".

Which, to me, kind of seems to miss the point a bit. Moos' description of the Battle Mode pretty much confirms what I thought it would be. Not fun. Ah well, there's still Rock Band (eventually) which seems to again focus on working together and having fun rocking out, rather than trying to be your average Xbox Live Headset Troll to your opponent.

[miffy495]

If I'm not mistaken, there are only 3 songs that force battle mode, one for each unlockable guitarist. This means Tom Morrello, (with RATM's "Bulls on Parade") Slash, (with GnR's "Welcome to the Jungle," which would be really nice to have in other modes) and that guy who's name I can't remember they have covering "Devil Went Down To Georgia." Two of those three songs I was really happy to see in the game, and the news that you can only play them in battle mode is a major downside to the game for me. Still, there are a lot of other good songs in the tracklist, but why have those at all if you're so limited in how you can play them?

[DanJW]

Yeah, seems like a really dumb decision to me too. Damian Schubert has posted his thoughts on it as well, as he talked about the folley of "gamifying" it some time ago.

Maybe they'll release those songs as DLC?

[miffy495]

Better be free DLC if the songs are already in game...

[Nachimir]

This sounds and looks like a load of wank :/

I was excited about it, but I'll probably pick up GH1 and 2 instead.

[Noyb]

Is it just me, or are most of the career songs in Guitar Hero III really repetitive? And that 50/100/etc. note streak indicator is very distracting. Does it have to flash *and* shake for about 4-5 seconds at the top of the fretboard? (Playing on hard. Still haven't beaten "One" or that painfully discordant Slayer song).

[n0wak]

Is it just me, or are most of the career songs in Guitar Hero III really repetitive? And that 50/100/etc. note streak indicator is very distracting. Does it have to flash *and* shake for about 4-5 seconds at the top of the fretboard? (Playing on hard. Still haven't beaten "One" or that painfully discordant Slayer song).

It is so not you. I am with you 100%, even about the Slayer song and "One" (though I *just* finally beat that fucker. )

I was just writing about this. I don't know if it's the songs or just the fret patterns, but most of these songs are sooo repetitive and boring. There are a few standouts (Dead Kennedys and "Cliffs of Dover" are really fun to play) but overall I'm finding the songs kinda dull... which is a shame cause some of these I was really looking forward to.

Guitar Hero is dead. Long live Rock Band!

Edit: oh, and I was just playing the game on Medium after getting stuck on that Slayer song on Hard and I made it to that first boss battle. I had no trouble getting through it on Hard, but I failed on Medium. I was playing the song fine but, unfortunately, that has no bearing on whether you win. I used a bunch of items on Morello to get him to screw up but since this was Medium difficulty there weren't enough notes for him to miss and the rock meter doesn't go down as fast enough and all the other times the computer would 100% and get that meter back up to green. Eventually the song ended and I lost. I felt like I had no control over the outcome. It was grade A stupid.

[n0wak]

Maybe they'll release those songs as DLC?

Apparently it has been confirmed that they will be released. I'm willing to wager that they won't be free

[miffy495]

Yay? I'm kinda pissed off with Activision about this one, but if the content that should've been there ends up being free I may forgive them. I don't even have GHIII yet and it's already been a bit of a hassel. Ordered a copy from Best Buy which read "preordered" until the game released. It then promptly changed to "backordered" so I cancelled my order and spent a week bumbling from shop to shop until I finally managed to track down a copy. Well, not me. My mom's boyfriend knew I was on the hunt and when he spotted a copy at the drug store (guitar and all, woo!) he grabbed it for me and sent me a text message. Now I have the full thing and am good to play, I just need to meet up with the guy sometime. All good, except that about two hours ago I get an email from Best Buy telling me my order (the one that's been canceled for days) has been shipped. Now I get to take it back to them as soon as it arrives. I LOVE RETAIL! YAY! :(

At least my Rock Band is preordered from EB. They've never fucked me over in the past on anything I've ordered with them, so my hopes are undashed for some good rocking in a little over two weeks.

[Noyb]

Damnit, the final boss is insane. Friend beat the last two songs on hard (perhaps part of the problem is that I can't beat the prerequisites myself, although they do seem significantly higher in difficultly than the rest of hard), so I tried out The Devil Went Down to Georgia. This is one of my recurring hates in games: forcing you to replay a significantly long (1+ minute) easy part over and over again before getting to the part that kicks my butt. It has a decent intro that I can get through in the green pretty easily, but the solos are way too hard for me, and that's without the insane "attacks" that keep coming. Lefty flip? Make every note in a HOPO solo a chord? Make the notes flicker so I can't see them? Kick the difficulty up to expert, while it's already damn difficult for hard? Make the boss attack first, so I have to get an attack while dealing with one of the above handicaps? In my best run, I attacked the boss three times, once with two attacks at once, then a third, but he still didn't fail. So much of limping through depends on getting lucky and the boss not getting a good run of the more powerful powerups, not a great design having it based so much on luck for the lower end of the player skill-base. AAAARRG!

Oh, well at least I can practice the song at a slower difficulty, right? Nope. Since it isn't part of quickplay, it isn't in practice mode.

[miffy495]

It's not even in practice mode? Damn that sucks. Oh well. At least he can't kick up the difficulty when I'm already on expert.

[ThunderPeel2001]

Ugh. It seems like Neversoft kind of missed the point. What's next? Play the right note to make Mario jump at the right time? Seriously, these games are all about improving at something which is just plain FUN, it didn't need to be "gamified".

Of course, I'll pick it up for the songs and the fact that I've already got the guitar, but I sincerely wish Harmonix/Red Octane hadn't fallen out.

Is there a new GH3 guitar for the 360, BTW? Also, with no less than three instruments in Rock Band, what's the retail price going to be like Will we be able to use existing guitars and buy a cheaper version?

[n0wak]

Is there a new GH3 guitar for the 360, BTW? Also, with no less than three instruments in Rock Band, what's the retail price going to be like Will we be able to use existing guitars and buy a cheaper version?

There is a new wireless guitar but my understanding is -- and this is a big time grey area -- is that it won't be compatible with Rock Band. Theoretically, Rock Band's guitar will work with Guitar Hero 3... but the first thing you see when you boot up GH3 is legal text that basically says that you are not allowed to use anything but an official Guitar Hero guitar or an official xbox controller. :(

You should be able to use the older XPlorer guitar (from GH2) on Rock Band, though.

[Noyb]

Last I heard, the Guitar Hero guitars work on Rock Band, but the Rock Band guitars don't work on Guitar Hero. I'm not sure if that applies to the PS2 versions, though. Hopefully it changes before Rock Band is shipped, or the 360/PS3 versions get patched, because that would really suck seeing as they're performing essentially the same functions.

Seeing as Guitar Hero III can tell the difference between a controller and a guitar (see the inane achievements about beating songs with a controller and not a guitar), I wonder if it looks for a specific signal from any controller being used. They have to know that there is significant overlap in the markets, and buyers will not look kindly on such manipulative practices. By artificially limiting what controllers work on their game, they're limiting what controllers are compatible with *both*, since RB is fully compatible. Dastardly move.

[n0wak]

Hello Rockers.

I've been playing around with the guitarhero.com online community features and I created an Idle Thumbs tour group if anyone wants to join:

http://www.guitarhero.com/tour_groups/204945

The thing doesn't seem to support PS2 versions of the game, though it does cover everything else.

[miffy495]

Joined up. How do I register my game on that site? I'm pretty sure I could boost us up right quick if it could see my scores.

EDIT: Never mind, figured it out. I'll do that as soon as I get back from walking my dog, then back to the quest through career mode.

Yeah, so just started playing my copy a couple of hours ago. Started working my way through Expert right off the bat (or course) and just finished tier 6. Only song I couldn't 5-star on the first try so far was Pride and Joy which kills me a bit because of how awesome that song is. I'm really digging the ratio of old songs to new ones. The Stones, Stevie Ray Vaughn, Dead Kennedys, Cream, and Santana all in the same place makes me a bit giddy. 'course, all I can see of tier 7 so far is 4 songs the oldest of which is from 2004, so I guess the game make make me eat that optimism yet. My plan right now is to get up to the devil duel tonight, but not try it until after I've worked my way through the other 3 difficulties for achievements and high scores over the next week or so. That way I will technically be beating expert mode last, even though I'd played it first. Then come the bonus songs. Ahhh... feels good to be working my way through a new playlist again.

Also, regarding achievements, there's one on there about getting 200,000 on Cult of Personality without any star power. Just tried for it. 198,000. Fuck. I can't just leave it at that. Still, 5 stars on the 6th last song with no star power, so go me I guess.

[miffy495]

OK, seriously, Raining Blood. Who thought it would be a good idea to put this in the game? Took me 15 damned tries just to get through that one "Downpour" or whatever it's called section. The bit with all the crazy fast

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parts. Once I made it through that, the rest of the song was easy as hell. So was the intro. It's not even a good solo, it's so messy and imprecise. Oh well, beat it now, never looking back.

Also, battle mode is kind of a bitch. The Devil Went Down To Georgia is surprising me with how much sense the note charts are making, and nothing feels out of place. I'm pretty much able to go on instinct and get a capable score on it. Problem is, I can't do this when they force lefty flip on me or any of the other numerous battle mode bullshit. Can't I just play the song? It would be such a perfect end to a game that, for me, has only had one song that's stand-out bad. But no, I have to have my groove constantly interrupted by weird things being thrown at me which means I've now attempted it something like 10 times unsuccessfully. Is there any battle mode strategy I'm missing here?

[Noyb]

OK, seriously, Raining Blood. Who thought it would be a good idea to put this in the game? Took me 15 damned tries just to get through that one "Downpour" or whatever it's called section. The bit with all the crazy fast

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parts. Once I made it through that, the rest of the song was easy as hell. So was the intro. It's not even a good solo, it's so messy and imprecise. Oh well, beat it now, never looking back.

It's the same evil, painful chart for that part on HARD. It really doesn't seem to make sense to force the player to strum at the start of each decrescendo. Maybe from an accuracy/difficulty standpoint, but definitely not from a fun/internal-HOPO-consistency standpoint.

Also, battle mode is kind of a beeyatch. The Devil Went Down To Georgia is surprising me with how much sense the note charts are making, and nothing feels out of place. I'm pretty much able to go on instinct and get a capable score on it. Problem is, I can't do this when they force lefty flip on me or any of the other numerous battle mode bullshit. Can't I just play the song? It would be such a perfect end to a game that, for me, has only had one song that's stand-out bad. But no, I have to have my groove constantly interrupted by weird things being thrown at me which means I've now attempted it something like 10 times unsuccessfully. Is there any battle mode strategy I'm missing here?

Well, damn. If you're having trouble with it, what chance do most players have?

For strategy, getting the first attack is almost entirely dependent on what attack Lou gets at first. If you can pick up the whammy attack for your first attack, you can beat him by triggering it on his fast green notes (a cheap strategy on expert that doesn't actually work on hard, due to having less notes. Funnily enough, from N0wak's experience, it seems like the bosses are *harder* to make fail on easier difficulties, purely due to the more lenient failing systems and less dense notes. That doesn't sound like good design at all!). Otherwise you could either use your attacks to preemptively prevent him from getting his to use against you, and try to stack (multiple at once) attacks in the second set of denser solos, or survive to the end when any powerup is an insta-kill.

Despite recognizing this, I still can't beat the bastard on hard, due to a combination of my lower skill and the luck of attacks. What's painful for me is that the normal method of improving my skill at a song -- practice mode -- isn't available to me. It sucks not being able to practice individual segments: only while in the boss fight, and always at the normal speed and while dealing with attack crap being thrown at me.

Like Ben said above, I don't like the whole feel of the battle mode. It feels less like a contest between two dueling guitarists than a contest to see who can cheat the opponent into failing first. Too much of it feels down to the luck of the powerups. There aren't really any defensive powerups (say, kicking your own board down a difficulty, or maybe reflecting an attack back at an enemy) apart from the preemptive strikes as I mentioned earlier. Funnily enough, the most common powerup to save a failing song attempt -- star power -- isn't even *IN* battle mode.

The powerups that are there feel really unbalanced. Some, like double notes, don't give you any chance during fast parts. Some, like broken string, force you to do actions that don't normally come up in the game. And some, like lefty flip, don't give you enough time to acclimate.

[miffy495]

The most successful run I've had at him was when I just weathered the storm of his first three attacks and then fired the three I had cued up right back at him. Unfortunately, then my solo got suddenly hard and surviving his attacks had left me in a rather weakened state which resulted in my failure. (not even by his hand!) Seems like on Hard that may be your best bet. Just resist the urge to hit him right away and then double or triple strike later. I'll be trying that again when I get home. (on the work computer right now)

[miffy495]

OK, the battle mode has completely soured me on Guitar Hero III. It was a great tracklist, but after over 30 failed attempts to defeat Lou, I hate it. It's driving me crazy. On several occasions now I've completed the song in it's entirety but because Lou survived too I still failed. You shouldn't be able to fail and still complete the song. I won't be buying Guitar Hero IV unless they remove forced boss battles.

I'm curious what would happen if, say, Miffy were to play a boss battle but refuse to use any attacks. Are the attacks necessary, or would he be able to win on sheer insane skill alone?

Done and done. Still failed. HATE THESE BATTLES. :(

[Wrestlevania]

Not wishing to intentionally derail this interesting discussion with something puerile and largely irrelevant, but are the allusions that this is Guitar Hero: Extreme Beach Volleyball Edition true - i.e. all the females are now big, wobbly chested bubbleheads?

If so, that's appalling. I usually play as the woman in red whenever we fire up Guitar Hero 2 in the office, because she was actually a believable and likeable female character -- pretty rare in my experience.

[n0wak]

Not wishing to intentionally derail this interesting discussion with something puerile and largely irrelevant, but are the allusions that this is Guitar Hero: Extreme Beach Volleyball Edition true - i.e. all the females are now big, wobbly chested bubbleheads?

If so, that's appalling. I usually play as the woman in red whenever we fire up Guitar Hero 2 in the office, because she was actually a believable and likeable female character -- pretty rare in my experience.

To an extent. The second stage is a strip club It has scantily clad (disinterested) women dancing. When you play the encore, Morello plays "bow-chicka-wow-wow" on his guitar Also was the character that you liked "Pandora"? Yeah, she's gone...

[Wrestlevania]

To an extent. The second stage is a strip club It has scantily clad (disinterested) women dancing. When you play the encore, Morello plays "bow-chicka-wow-wow" on his guitar

"Hey, fratty morons--now even you guys can play!" Mother fuckers.

Also was the character that you liked "Pandora"? Yeah, she's gone...

Too reasonably proportioned, evidently.

Either that or perhaps Harmonix had rights to the characters and will have them in Rock Band? /uber-tenuous

[miffy495]

Rock Band will have a create a player mode, not pre-designed characters, so no.

Some of the GH characters returned, although far less appealingly. Johnny Napalm, who's been kind of the mascot, is back but looks like he's about three feet away from the methodone clinic. Judy Nails (who I think you play as, as she's always wearing red. Pandora wore blue) is back, but has apparently had breast surgery and now enjoys the liberation that only an extremely low-cut top can provide. Lars Umlaut and Izzy Sparks are back too, and largely unchanged, but something just feels wrong about them. And then we have Xavier Stone, who now looks more Hendrix-y than ever before and has become my new character (used to be Izzy) as he looks the most normal and sane of all of them.

[miffy495]

Not to double post again, but...

*ahem*

I BEAT THE FUCKER. And not using that "Whammy him on the green bit" trick, either. I survived all honest-like up to Johnny's solo, then hit the bastard with lefty flip, double notes, and broken string at the same time. Not even that fucking son of a bitch can survive a simul-hit from those three on a fast solo. Also, finally got 5 stars on Cliffs of Dover which I love and have been playing a lot of. This leaves me with only one 3 star song (Raining Blood) and four 4 star songs. Once I can beef those up to 5 stars, I've got the game fully done. :woohoo:

It's also be nice to get more than 1% completion on Through The Fire And The Flames, but that'll take a lot of time in practice mode and much cursing to do...

Though I will admit, it was very satisfying to have an unfailable version of TTFATF while the credits rolled. Was really fun to play when I couldn't lose on it and could just focus on the song. Probably the best choice Neversoft made when making the game, actually.