What do people think of Blair and Brown?

[Ginger]

I was curious to see how people regarded these two, especially those from outside the UK, I remember my left wing great aunt from Canada was very pro Blair at first but that morphed into hatred as his term went on.

I greatly disliked the style over substance approach that characterised Blair's premiership, but I feel with Cameron as an opponent Brown will be forced to continue a heavy reliance on spin. I think he was a competent but overly respected as a chancellor, he greatly benefited from a strong foundation and a strong world economy, and feel that in the last few years the economy has been mismanaged in an attempt to avoid recession, however this will probably only make the inevitable (and in my mind necessary) recession more severe. As for him as pm I'm reservedly optimistic.

[Roderick]

I can't say lots about Brown yet, but I reflect your aunt in that I was first enthusiastic about Blair, until he became the Bush-lapdog he remained until quite recently. Now he's in the lift again with his lofty agenda of settling the Israel/Palestine dispute. He'll likely not succeed, but at least he's not warmongering anymore.

Of Brown I only know he's conservative, a bit harsher and more brutal than Blair, but also a Stalinist? I don't know. I read a lot of things. We'll see.

[Wrestlevania]

I am resolutely indifferent.

[Spaff]

Gordon Brown has a glass eye, that makes him awesome ¬¬

[SpiderMonkey]

It's the lack of any shame or humility that most bugs me about Blair. There was a piece in the Guardian last week discussing the political exits of other prime ministers who'd made catastrophic foreign policy fuckups, leading to hundreds of deaths. They all left in disgrace and spent the rest of their days humbled by the burden of their mistakes. As the article observed, Blair gets a farewell tour and leaves like some kind of hero at a moment of his choosing. It's borderline disgusting.

[nckrlf]

It's the lack of any shame or humility that most bugs me about Blair. There was a piece in the Guardian last week discussing the political exits of other prime ministers who'd made catastrophic foreign policy fuckups, leading to hundreds of deaths. They all left in disgrace and spent the rest of their days humbled by the burden of their mistakes. As the article observed, Blair gets a farewell tour and leaves like some kind of hero at a moment of his choosing. It's borderline disgusting.

Blair still believes he did the right thing. There's at least something admirable in the way he's stuck to his guns and resolutely defended his actions.

He wouldn't be getting this kind of "hero" treatment if he appeared to acknowledge that he did the wrong thing, and then continued to lack any shame.

[DanJW]

Incidentally, amongst all the tabloid tripe earlier in the week was a well hidden news story about Blair being questioned by police again in the cash-for-honours scandal.

I started to dislike Blair th instant I noticed how much he involved Alistair Campbell in everything. I despise Blair for bringing big business PR techniques to politics.

Also for his complete refusal to even consider the possibility that Iraq was a bad decision. There are so many people who could have said "I told you so" and he refused to give them an inch of credit for having more foresight than himself.

Gordon Bown I am mildly apprehensive about in a vague sort of way.

[Redwall]

Blair still believes he did the right thing. There's at least something admirable in the way he's stuck to his guns and resolutely defended his actions.

"This man believes the same thing on Wednesday that he believed on Monday, no matter what happened on Tuesday. Events can change, but this man's beliefs never will." ?

[DanJW]

Heheh

[Nachimir]

I have a cautious optimism about Brown, largely because he seemed to keep a fairly low profile during the years everyone was screaming "Scumbag! Pigfucker!" at Jack Straw, Tony Blair, John Prescott, and David Blunkett. My optimism is ointment with a few big flies in it though:

- He's reportedly an incredibly clever man, and I hope the extent to which it's been said is true, but it might easily be more overblown PR.

- So much is out of his control in a globalised system that without research it's going to be hard to know exactly what he is and isn't directly reponsible for, even before sugar coated PR is dripped all over it.

- The extent to which he gets how the world is changing remains to be seen.

[SpiderMonkey]

In terms of looking forward, I'm prepared to give Brown time of day, and I also have a reasonable patience for Cameron. I expect though that I'm about to get a whole lot more selfish about who gets my political support, rather than looking at things in a wider picture. So much of what's gone on under Blair has really fucked over the generation of people 18-26 today - university fees and the utter insanity of the housing market (from a first-time buyer perspective) to name just two. I'm gonna be paying close attention to what attitude they take to these problems, because it's the first time a politician has had and will have a genuine impact on my day to day, year to year life.

[Salka]

yeah. those two things are pretty shit.

having pretty much only moved to england two years ago, I'm appalled at how expensive (and shit) housing is, and also at uni fees.

In Ireland, housing is not only much cheaper, but there's enough to go around and there's none of this "everyone living on top of everyone else" bullshit, except perhaps in the very worst parts of Dublin.

If I want to start a family in the future, I'm looking at £350,000 minimum for a decent family-sized house in a decent part of town. I'm never realistically going to be earning enough to afford a mortgage like that, so I'd actually be relying on inheritance from both mine and my partner's parents.

It's really unbelievable how shit and expensive it is here. You pay more here for a tiny little shit dark apartment in a run-down area of town, than you do for a massive family house in Ireland. And no, it's not that much better here that it justifies it...

Also university in Ireland is free, some people even manage to come out of Uni with SAVINGS. Come on England, you backwards fucking 3rd world country, SORT YOURSELF OUT.

[vimes]

I'm not familiar neither with Ireland's nor with England's way of life...what's making you stay in Brighton rather than going back to buy a house in Ireland and find a job you hate as much as the one you have/had?

[Salka]

'Cos I'm lying, it is actually kinda a lot better than ireland ¬¬ only 'cause there's more interesting stuff here... and the accents are better...

Okay first of all there's no video game industry in Ireland worth talking about. But one thing I've thought about in the future is of starting a studio in Ireland - there is an unbelievable amount of talent exported to other countries... Man, I would really like to do that. Plus they'd make it really easy for you to start a new media company over there, because they're always trying to encourage that kinda business to start up... tax incentives and all kinds of fun things... hmm... hopefully it'll still be the same in ten years when I'm actually in a reasonable position to think about something like that... bah.... hmmm....

And second of all... man I'm sure there was a second. Oh yeah, I can afford to live over here now, I just could never afford to if I had a family. At least, not to the standard that I could do it in ireland. Unless I became really wealthy. Which is sort of my plan anyway.

[brkl]

What I read about Brown just now considering his plans about diminishing the powers of the prime minister sounded really good.

[JoannaDark]

yaay yufster come start a studio! we can start it from my flat which has tea and coffee making facilities, and i'm learning to program, and there's a GAME right around the corner, and a gallery across the road, perfect for fostering creativity!

But yeah, I would never buy a house in Ireland. Its gone pretty much the same way here, my rent isn't so bad, but if we were to buy a house in an ok area with 4 bedrooms it would be around 500k. I'm gonna move to japan when i'm old enough and buy a cardboard box for 80 million yen which i then hand down to my kids. now that's the way to go...

[Ginger]

What I read about Brown just now considering his plans about diminishing the powers of the prime minister sounded really good.

Agreed, fuck this presidential aura that Blair has exhibited. Following the vision of one man can be very dangerous. I'm really not a fan of the presidential/monarch system, (aint got that much against the queen as she is mainly a figure head)

[Ginger]

having pretty much only moved to england two years ago, I'm appalled at how expensive (and shit) housing is, and also at uni fees.

Fucking LOL, u do realise that by moving here you push up the prices, tut you hypocrite.

[Ginger]

Did anyone watch PMQ yesterday, brown was very unimpressive, although it was a rather subdued session as a result of the recent terrorist action, will their impact know no limits

[Nachimir]

I find it kind of interesting that the new cabinet seems to be attempting to reclaim nationalism (Though not called that, usually "national pride" or "patriotism") and align it slightly left of centre.

First they relaxed the rules on flying the Union Jack above government buildings: It used to be limited, but now they can fly it all the time. A lot of what's being said seem to contain suppositions of British identity, which is just not what came through the media before New Labour got into power.

It's all kind of strange to me, as while growing up it always seemed like the UK had a cultural vacuum and the Union Jack was the BNP's flag rather than anything to do with the UK (For non-UK people, the BNP are kind of like the KKK are now: An organisation with a long history of racist nationalism that now attempts to hide it with PR).

It doesn't spark any patriotic pride in me or anything, but I think it's fairly healthy for the govt. to reclaim certain symbols and words from the far right.

[syntheticgerbil]

I wouldn't mind working on video games in Ireland.

[Salka]

no need for sarcasm...

[Ginger]

I think I need to get a Union Jack banana hammock and post some photos on thumbs, if that doesn't instil some British patriotic pride, we're all doomed.

[syntheticgerbil]

I'm not being sarcastic. I'm being as honest as daylight in summertime.

[JoannaDark]

the guy behind the havoc physics engine just announced a really cool video games masters degree on the floor below me, and they're putting lotsa money into it n stuff. my friend just got a placement with demonware and they're doing incraesingly well. it's a good time to be a gamer in ireland...especially with pokemon finally out in 16 days...