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Salka

Why I hate you, and the internet

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Hey, chill out guy, relaaaaaaax. Have a warm milk or something. With a sprinkle of cinnamon. Mmmmmmmmm.

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I don't know... only once was I in a community where you had this kind of vassal relationship between some elder members and younger ones. I got tired of it after a year or so, realizing that the only conversations I was entering were the one that only involved the few seemingly rationale people of the community.

Overall, I'm just not the kind of guy to ask people to back up their argument if it's pretty obvious they are just listening to the wisdom of the many or copycating someone else. I don't pretend i never wanted to be with the coolest kid on the block and that it isn't enjoyable to share opinions with a acknowledge member, but I've grown to like just making my point, listening to others', asking for clarification/details or answering to criticisms or question directly targeting my statements.

So, I don't have a lot of experience of the situation you describe... why don't you just flee this kind of people like I have ?

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Fleeing those people is what brought me here, so I don't quite get exactly why you're slamming us in particular.

I'd never slam you Miffy, you're too good :tup:

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Interesting that you mention wikipedia. Is this because of the trend for linking to wikipedia to back up a claim? This is just an evolution of a principle. Often in discussions (read: arguments) people spout facts all over the place. It got to the point where other people started to ask them to reference these facts - a practice derived from scientific study and a very good one since it prevents people from making stuff up. It's one of the cornerstones of the process of peer review.

Since wikipedia is fairly comprehensive and easy to search, and normally references it's sources itself, it is much easier to use a wiki page to back up your claim than it is to search the rest of the net for it. Sure wikipedia isn't always right, be it generally is pretty good on the major factual things.

So maybe what you've interpreted as "people being told what to think by wikipedia" is actually people backing up their arguments by linking to factual information in an open-source encyclopedia. Surely that's a better style of debate than just shouting "I'm right and you're wrong" at people?

9 out of 10 cats say to trust me on this.

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You might be misunderstanding me.

I didn't say people backing up their opinions was bad. I didn't say that people are being told what to think by wikipedia, either.

I just mean that, people copying the popular opinion of other people is bad.

And the frustrating thing is that, when people do that in real life (which they do, alllll the time) you can catch them out because they're not able to back up the opinion that they claim is their own. They don't actually know ANYthing about what they're defending, and you can tell if you only question them about it a little.

But on the internet, when people are challenged about opinions they claim are their own, and when they're asked to back them up, they can simply check Wikipedia or other sites (wikipedia being just a popular example) to back themselves up.

It's rife all over the fucking internet.

On Idle Forums, there are definitely two or three people who I can mention that do it all the fucking time, and I won't say who, but yes it even happens here... none of the people who have commented in this thread so far are guilty of it though... ¬¬

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I just mean that, people copying the popular opinion of other people is bad.

I've still no idea what you're point is... What's "popular opinion"? Are you saying that you dislike people who don't have opinions of their own? If so, I can understand, but if people can back it up, by internet or otherwise, then at least a) they're willing to try to defend their opinion and B) maybe they can create a decent argument?

Perhaps you could furnish us with an example in order to paint a clearer picture?

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Since you are talking about having courage in your convictions, maybe you should be brave and name names. It's not really fair to attack someone so obliquely that no-one knows who it is that's being attacked.

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Well shit, I'd say that I agree with you Yufster but... you'd probably yell at me.

I do know what you mean, though. I'd say I'm kind of guilty of that in general, but I think for me it's more a case of me not being a very expressive human being. And someone always says whatever I'm thinking better than I can anyway. Which is why I generally don't share my opinions on things because either someone said basically what I would before me or I can't communicate eloquently enough to justify me opening my mouth.

And have you ever considered that Remo is just right all the time?

Maybe?

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On Idle Forums, there are definitely two or three people who I can mention that do it all the fucking time, and I won't say who, but yes it even happens here... none of the people who have commented in this thread so far are guilty of it though... ¬¬

Oops, better post.

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Oops, better post.

That's not how these things work! Even if you weren't on the hate-list before, you are now. If you aren't, then I'm making my own list, just to prove a point.

I hope someone ends up crying from this thread, even if it's me.

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Since you are talking about having courage in your convictions, maybe you should be brave and name names. It's not really fair to attack someone so obliquely that no-one knows who it is that's being attacked.

No, because there's "having courage in your convictions" and then there's "being a cunt".

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Well shit, I'd say that I agree with you Yufster but... you'd probably yell at me.

And have you ever considered that Remo is just right all the time?

Maybe?

Dude I'd never yell at you. Maybe.

You all think I'm so scary and horrible, even though I love every single out on you like my own children. Perhaps. What's up with that?

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I find it ironic that, while complaining about shit on the internet, you have actually heaped more shit onto that shitpile. :tup:

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I'm familiar with what Yufster described. On the other hand, I've seen people desperately trying to support their shitty little uninformed opinions* with fundamentalist vigour, and they just come across as silly. But for most people, I guess, giving in is easier.

And forum people are funny anyway. I think this might be partly due to the Thumb being full of people having a few individuals who expression of their opinion is generally in the lines of "this game is the rulez, it's soo intelligent and the design is ingenious, and everybody who doesn't understand it is a little fucktard. You don't want to be a little fucktard, do you?" They might do it in a slightly more subtle fashion but not much.

And other thing I love are all-informative one-liners. Like saying just "No" to what someone else has said. Oh so authoritative. When the exchange of opinions is the way it is here in the Thumb, it's no wonder people act that way (we are 'social' creatures afterall, and a part of that is that people want leaders. The more brutal you are in expressing yourself, the more caveman-like others are in their responses.) :shifty:

Maybe.

Anyway, it was an entertaining post Yufster wrote.:yep: I've noticed that now that I'm older, I fear her much less! :woohoo:The Thumb seems like fun after all these years, perhaps I'll become a hard-core Mac gamer? Playing WoW on my shitty MacBook at 1 frame per second...

*:tup:-sp33k!!

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And I don't understand why the Thumb changed into blog format. It's like you aren't serious anymore. :(

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Well that clearly can't be aimed at me, as UK:Resistance actually have a wire attached to several synapses in my brain and every time I spasm it creates a post...

I actually come here a lot (and a couple of the blog sites related to this place) so that I can catch up on stuff I generally miss since my internet got taken away at work. Sure that means that my views are going to end up lopsided, but most of the stuff I use from the information, views extolled here are conversation points for work rather than ethos I live by.

Yufster, you are forever outspoken, and for fear of being turned to stone by your glare/post, I find it easier to avoid confrontation than disagree with you. Not because of the wrath displayed in posts like these, but also because I really don't have a fucking clue most of the time. The same goes for quite a few of the people who post here, I find myself quite frequently out of my depth and rather than go 'I disagree because I feel I need to flex my flimsy intellectual muscle'; I just feel like going 'you have a graph? Nice one.'

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Jesus Christ I had a dream about this thread last night. WTF.

Yufster, you are forever outspoken, and for fear of being turned to stone by your glare/post, I find it easier to avoid confrontation than disagree with you

Yeah I'm going to stop being so confrontational because it's clearly not good. But nobody should be afraid of arguing with me anyway... I'm only an internet person... in real-life I'm sooo nice maybe... hmmm...

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Yeah I'm going to stop being so confrontational because it's clearly not good.

I disagree; I just think sometimes you regret the approach you take in making your case.

To be honest, it's not often that I empathise with your point of view. But I still respect it all the same.

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Bits of my dream are being filled in throughout the morning and I realise now that I had a dream that Wrestlevania hated me and I felt really bad about it and thought that I'd been too aggressive in my arguments so I took a holiday to an awesome mountain that was half snow, half grass, and my feet were really cold and I realised I had no way of getting back so I hoped somebody would come along and save me, maybe a tourist or something, but nobody came so I started trekking up the mountain to find a warmer place, and then I came across an uphill beach and it was really cool because you could climb the waves and then slide all the way down them again like a waterslide, and then I dived to the bottom of the sea and there was a tunnel that led to some hot springs at the top of the mountain and I felt really happy because I was finally warm and safe but also really sad because I didn't know how to get home and every time I stepped out of the hot springs I got cold again.

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I had a dream where Cuddy thought House would never find the answer to their problem, but then House flew to the moon with the patient and cured her. He used a 747, except it had a big ol' rocket in the back. Cuddy was dumbfounded! Then it turns out House had been deformed by radiation, but wore a perfectly life-like mask to hide his hideous face.

This is my contribution to this debate.

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I'm SO burned! You must be proud! Now go off and do something more useful with your time.

While that post may have indeed been unnecessarily trollish, it wasn't my intention to "burn" you. Just to point out that, as I think you yourself realize, for every insightful comment you make, there are as many examples of you just being a crazy bitch. Often times in the same post.

Also, I don't actually have a problem with the sentiment of your original post (though I might dispute some of the details).

And, therefore, my second contribution to this discussion will also bear no relevance to the topic at hand.

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