vimes

[GDC]Real nice news from Sony

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Well, at least most of the experts say it's where interfaces are going : they don't pretend it's going to replace 2D interface in every cases, they just say that it's going to be the next field of experimentation for a bunch of researches related to usability and user centered interaction... and that their result will provide guidelines for the proper use of 3D interface.
Excuse the bluntness, but I think that's kinda myopic. The history of games everything is littered with great ideas that got abandoned because someone screwed up the execution on them once, and then everyone else went "oh it must've been the idea that sucked". I think it's great that they are giving the idea a second go, and I think it's a flawed comparison since the scope of execution has obviously changed so much since VRML.

Fair enough, and bluntness excused ;), but I remain unconvinced that 3D offers a good way to organise information. As social space, sure, fine.

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1. You don't have to use a disc, that's for sure. I think they already said it's accessible from the menu.
So you still have to boot up the game seperately, which is exactly what I wrote. It's not like Xbox Live where it's immediately staring you in the face when you power up the console. Meaning you won't immediately see if there's anything new to check out, and the entire concept depends on people actually deciding to go into the world. Which means that world has to be pretty good, or else people won't automatically go there.
2. No it's not. You can use a built-in software keyboard (is that what it's called?), connect a USB keyboard, or using a wireless headset.

Read what I wrote: "chat is limited for those without a keyboard". Constructing phrases out of pre-selected words or using the software keyboard is pretty much shit.

So yeah, a USB keyboard or headset are pretty much required to chat decently, but how many people will bother? It's another barrier to entry. Just log into Resistance: Fall of Man multiplayer and see how many people are voicechatting. Not many, because you need a separate BlueTooth mic that needs to be synched with the console. Also few people will attach a keyboard to a console. That doesn't invalidate the Home concept at all, but it's definitely a weak point compared to PC-based stuff like Second Life.

3. I'm pretty sure they're going to implement shortcuts accessible from a menu - and if not, at least have fast-travels like in Oblivion. And can't you already watch video-clips the normal way on a PS3? If so, why would that change? It's probably just an alternative to the more traditional method, plus added stuff.
Errr, the presentation showed the avatar walking into a cinema, then walking into the correct screening room and then watching a trailer there (a screen inside a screen?!). If you're going to make shortcuts for that process, you might as well not make a 3D world and just have a menu system with browsable movie clips. But we'll see.

(There's a bunch of good things to say for Home too. Just clarifying these 3 points.)

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Fair enough, and bluntness excused ;), but I remain unconvinced that 3D offers a good way to organise information. As social space, sure, fine.

I'm also skeptical. While it's quite possible it can be done, I've yet to see anything that makes me say, "Oh, that's a minor improvement over 2D material." If someone does pull that off, the challenge will then be making an intuitive interface that doesn't confuse the users.

The main question with the 3D interface is: Are we making it simpler or more complicated? If the answer is the latter, then why the fuck bother? 3D games are more complicated and harder to follow than 2D games, but you can bother because some gamers like the challenge. UI-designers don't have that luxury.

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I don't know why everybody is so excited over a chat on steroids...:shifty:

Little Big Planet looks great, though... :yep:

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I really like the look of LittleBigPlanet and how it's going to "play". It reminds me of the stick man puzzles a friend and I used to make for each other back in school. We'd just doodle out a 2D side-on maze of sorts, then the other person would have to talk through how they'd get to the end and you'd say when traps would be triggered, etc. Nerdy, but great fun.

At least, if it works out as well as it sounds, they may very well have outdone Xbox Live. And offer it for free. MS suddenly has no big advantages if it turns out like that.

I think that, too, is a little myopic (great term). I've heard several long-time industry pundits discussing Live's strategy going forward, and the only thing that makes sense is that MS eventually (in 12-18 months' time) make 'Gold' free for everyone. They can recoup a reasonable amount of the subscription cost per machine by reducing the percentage in price cuts year-on-year for the 360, whilst still remaining fiercly competative at retail.

And let's not beat around the bush; Sony's online gaming strategy is only a little less wooly now than it was 12 months ago. MS will always beat them on quality of service unless Sony somehow, miraculously, trump the world's most prolific network software provider. I'm not saying it's impossible, but let's not pretend that all it'll take is a "silver bullet" from Sony either -- and Home certainly is not that silver bullet. Just wait for Animal Crossing on Wii to see some of the key ideas (trophies, chat) behind Home being used in a meaningful gamespace, rather than an extra option on the system menu...

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So you still have to boot up the game seperately, which is exactly what I wrote. It's not like Xbox Live where it's immediately staring you in the face when you power up the console. Meaning you won't immediately see if there's anything new to check out, and the entire concept depends on people actually deciding to go into the world. Which means that world has to be pretty good, or else people won't automatically go there.

You still have to boot it up IF you want to use Home that way. But I think they're going to implement everything into the XMB. So it'll be like Live as well.

Read what I wrote: "chat is limited for those without a keyboard". Constructing phrases out of pre-selected words or using the software keyboard is pretty much shit.

So yeah, a USB keyboard or headset are pretty much required to chat decently, but how many people will bother? It's another barrier to entry. Just log into Resistance: Fall of Man multiplayer and see how many people are voicechatting. Not many, because you need a separate BlueTooth mic that needs to be synched with the console. Also few people will attach a keyboard to a console. That doesn't invalidate the Home concept at all, but it's definitely a weak point compared to PC-based stuff like Second Life.

I misread your post. Anyway, it's the same with the X360, isn't it? And voicechat is probably low in Resistance because first of all, the console hasn't been released in the EU yet, and second of all, they didn't have a clear strategy, so people weren't sure if buying a headset was necessary just yet.

Errr, the presentation showed the avatar walking into a cinema, then walking into the correct screening room and then watching a trailer there (a screen inside a screen?!). If you're going to make shortcuts for that process, you might as well not make a 3D world and just have a menu system with browsable movie clips. But we'll see.

(There's a bunch of good things to say for Home too. Just clarifying these 3 points.)

Ah, so you don't like choices? You can watch videoclips on the PS3 NOW, can't you? Why would implementing an additional way of watching these videoclips change anything? Just watch it the normal way, if you don't want to go into the 3D world.

You're not using your imagination here, there are TONS of solutions to your issues, yet you seem to think that Sony won't know about this? And you also assume that the XMB will stay exactly like it is now, and that there won't be additional menu commands. The XMB will probably end up pretty much like the Xbox dashboard, in functionality. Just think of Home as an alternative way of using the dashboard. It's not a game, it's an online community where you control your character around instead of menus. And if you want to use menus instead, you can probably do that too.

It basically offers the exact same as Microsoft, but to a larger scale. And it won't force you to use the 3D version, you can most likely do exactly the same from the XMB.

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It basically offers the exact same as Microsoft, but to a larger scale. And it won't force you to use the 3D version, you can most likely do exactly the same from the XMB.

No, sorry, I'm calling bullshit on this.

You do not spend hundreds of thousands of man hours to develop an overly complex imitation of a competitor's perfectly servicable menu system. Not unless you're a total fucking idiot, who thinks chrome is more important than what's actually under the bonnet.

Home isn't some jaunty quaint alternative to Sony's now-established - and very elegant - cross menu system. For a fact, Sony will not be replicating PS3 menu functionality "but in 3D!" with Home. That, frankly, is an idiotic point of view.

Media playback just reeks of "tacked on" but the other aspects (designing your own space, displaying trophies within this space, interacting with other players in their own spaces) are fundamentally important differentiations between Sony's competition this generation.

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No, sorry, I'm calling bullshit on this.

You do not spend hundreds of thousands of man hours to develop an overly complex imitation of a competitor's perfectly servicable menu system.

Unless you want to outdo your competitor.

And I asked many many times already. Can you not watch movies on your PS3 now? And will the implementation of Home remove this feature, or will it just offer an alternative way of doing things?

We haven't even seen 10% of how Home works, and it won't start until October, and will be a less than 500mb download. People are assuming incredibly stupid things, and for some reason ignoring the fact that Sony themselves most likely know what they're doing.

EDIT: or, I can give you some actual written proof:

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/771/771763p1.html

"Just about everything you can do in Home can also be done through the cross media bar. It just won't look as cool."

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I misread your post. Anyway, it's the same with the X360, isn't it? And voicechat is probably low in Resistance because first of all, the console hasn't been released in the EU yet, and second of all, they didn't have a clear strategy, so people weren't sure if buying a headset was necessary just yet.

No. And the difference is simple. Pretty much anyone that has XBox Live Gold HAS a headset. There might be the odd rare person without one, but it's pretty much universal (and those likely to not have one are not likely to be on XBL, gaming, anyway).

Hell, I have two (and this is not counting the original XBox headset). I don't even know how I got two. One came with the console, I'm sure, but no idea where I got the second one from.

(Edit: and the reason I'm not a fan of Home is not because I'm anti-Sony, it's because I'm anti-social. As long as certain features and functionality are not tied in solely to Home, I won't care. Assuming I have a PS3 by then.)

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Not unless you're a total fucking idiot, who thinks chrome is more important than what's actually under the bonnet.

Must... resist... cheap shot at Sony... :shifty:

And yeah, I would never have bothered with a headset if it hadn't come with my 360. I've always prefered the "same-room" multiplay to online anyway. When I do go online, there are very few people I want to hear. Luckily with the whole friends list thing, I actually end up interacting with people that I don't mind talking to. I wouldn't have gone out of my way for a headset though, and certainly wouldn't pay as much as you need to to get one working with a PS3. If Sony really wants to get people chatting, they should follow MS's lead and throw a cheap headset in the box with their system.

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If people want to chat, they'll buy a headset. If people don't want to chat, there's no reason to complain.

And here's a little tip: http://www.gadgetmadness.com/archives/20061209-how_to_use_any_bluetooth_headset_with_your_playstation_3_ps3.php

Seriously, people don't chat on the PS3 yet because, frankly, not that many people OWN a PS3 yet. It's yet to be released here in Europe, and it's not sold a gazillion units in neither the US nor Japan either.

Personally, I don't like using headset to chat. I prefer to use a keyboard. I guess I should complain to Sony for not including a keyboard in the pack then?

And I hate XBLive for not having the option of using a keyboard, not even the software keyboard, to chat in 99% of the games.

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