All the Zelda Games?! More like MODERATED FTW

[toblix]

So I had this Master Plan of playing all the cool Zelda games, which I defined (erroneously, as it turned out) as all the Zelda games from and including Link to the Past, which, to me, represents something holy, having only played it slightly over the years, never having owned a SNES, loving the graphics (it's still totally beautiful) and the gameplay.

So, I played through Link to the Past on my Xbox. It really rocked and was cool.

Then I played Link's Awakening DX on my PC. It was also fun, despite the limitations of playing an old, small portable game on a huge monitor. It was also very cool. Not as cool as Link to the Past, but cool.

Then I started playing Ocarina of Time on my PC, and it was shit. The graphics are shit, the controls are shit. The dialogues are slow and boring, and the environments are confusing and ugly and terrible.

So, having made these observations, I have one question: Are all the later Zelda games as shit, or is this some abnormality in a line of otherwise great games? And don't tell me it's a good game. Maybe back in 1990 or whenever the fuck, but not today. Oh no sir!

[Thrik]

Whoa, Ocarina of Time is generally considered an absolute fucking classic. It's aged like a horse's ass visually, but the gameplay itself remains pretty solid; even my sister of ye new generation had a blast with it when she played it through for the first time a few months ago. Its only downside is that it starts off really slowly, forbidding you from the large overworld, but I presume you gave it that much chance.

You'll probably enjoy Wind Waker more as it's newer, very pretty, and fine-tuned the formula a lot more; it still plays very similarly though, which most would agree isn't a remotely bad thing.

You'd probably have been better off playing it on the N64 or GameCube though, or at least on a low-definition TV. Console games of the last couple of generations tend to look absolutely shit as fuck when emulated as all the jagged edges and shite textures are emphasised on a monitor, whereas on a TV they look a lot smoother. Wind Waker is one of the most beautiful games ever when in motion on a TV (like playing a cartoon), but I'd imagine it's not anti-aliased and would consequently look like ass on a monitor -- if a GameCube emulator even exists.

[toblix]

Whoa, Ocarina of Time is generally considered an absolute fucking classic. It's aged like a horse's ass visually, but the gameplay itself remains pretty solid; even my sister of ye new generation had a blast with it when she played it through for the first time a few months ago. Its only downside is that it starts off really slowly, forbidding you from the large overworld, but I presume you gave it that much chance.

Well, no. Should I? To be honest, I didn't even get the shield. How the fuck do you get the shield?

You'll probably enjoy Wind Waker more as it's newer, very pretty, and fine-tuned the formula a lot more; it still plays very similarly though, which most would agree isn't a remotely bad thing.

Yeah, yeah. You had me at gameplay.

You'd probably have been better off playing it on the N64 or GameCube though, or at least on a low-definition TV.

Yeah, unfortunately that's not an option.

Tell you what, though. Since everyone thinks this game is so great, I'll give it another chance. I still think it bodes badly that I had to run around for half and hour before even finding the sword. Is it just my missing some directional hint, or what? I assumed I wasn't ready for the "training course", as it gave hints on sword fighting and I didn't yet have a sword. How was I supposed to know that this is the only game in the world that gives hints on how to fight before giving you the weapon? And where's the shield?

[miffy495]

How the fuck do you get the shield?

The shield is in the store. You just fucking buy it.

tbh, I wouldn't have ever gotten the sword as early as I had if I hadn't watched a friend do the same before getting the game. The intro really is slow and kinda dull. Once you hit the dungeons and get going though, it's really good.

I'm wondering about your control complaints though. It's always been great for me. How are you playing it on your PC? USB contol pad? Keyboard? I'm going to assume for the time being that your control gripes stem from the fact that you aren't using a GNC or N64 pad with it.

Graphics I never had a problem with. I'm actually replaying it right now on my Wii (currently in Water Temple) and still think it's held up pretty well. Of course, the GCN disk that I'm using for it supports progressive scan Zelda, so perhpas that helps. Still, even when I played it on my cube without the 480p support, still looked good.

If you give it another chance and still don't like Ocarina, I'd just skip out on Majora completely. Wind Waker was great though, and Twighlight Princess was also pretty damned good. Sorry to those who think that TP is the best one, but after seeing what the cell shading in WW can do, going back was a dissappointment for me. Then again, you could just fall into that camp that liked 2D Zelda but not 3D. I love both, but there are many who don't. If you only give one more Zelda a shot, go for Minish Cap. You seem to be a 2D fan, and that's a very, very good one. Not LTTP good, but close.

[Aussie Ben]

Generally, aim for Zeldas where Ganon isn't the villain. Which can be very hard to do! I prefer my games where they don't retread the same hero/villain every time. Therefore, go for:

- Link's Awakening (but you already played that, apparently)

- Oracle of Seasons

- Oracle of Ages (evil possessing witch monster woman!)

- Majora's Mask (Demonic imp child who wants to end the world in three days!)

- Minish Cap (Evil wizard of evil that isn't Ganon!)

Hooray for originality! It's a relief when I don't see a Zelda game ending with Link killing Ganon and rescuing Zelda. Those ones are my favourites.

Also, if you love sailing (and boy do I mean absolutely LOOOOOVE sailing!) then Wind Waker is for you. If you prefer poking through dungeons, not spending ten minutes watching telly while you point the boat in the general direction of the next island and so forth, then you might want to give it a miss.

And don't you have a Wii or something? You can play GameCube games on the Wii, you know.

[LOPcagney]

So I had this Master Plan of playing all the cool Zelda games, which I defined (erroneously, as it turned out) as all the Zelda games from and including Link to the Past, which, to me, represents something holy, having only played it slightly over the years, never having owned a SNES, loving the graphics (it's still totally beautiful) and the gameplay.

So, I played through Link to the Past on my Xbox. It really rocked and was cool.

Then I played Link's Awakening DX on my PC. It was also fun, despite the limitations of playing an old, small portable game on a huge monitor. It was also very cool. Not as cool as Link to the Past, but cool.

Then I started playing Ocarina of Time on my PC, and it was shit. The graphics are shit, the controls are shit. The dialogues are slow and boring, and the environments are confusing and ugly and terrible.

So, having made these observations, I have one question: Are all the later Zelda games as shit, or is this some abnormality in a line of otherwise great games? And don't tell me it's a good game. Maybe back in 1990 or whenever the fuck, but not today. Oh no sir!

Without bashing your own oppinions or using this as an opportunity to ruthelessly promote my own, Ocarina of Time probably turned me on to fantasies in the first place and continues to keep me dissappointed with games that don't live up to it's standards 9 years later.

[n0wak]

Generally, aim for Zeldas where Ganon isn't the villain. Which can be very hard to do! I prefer my games where they don't retread the same hero/villain every time. Therefore, go for:

- Link's Awakening (but you already played that, apparently)

- Oracle of Seasons

- Oracle of Ages (evil possessing witch monster woman!)

- Majora's Mask (Demonic imp child who wants to end the world in three days!)

- Minish Cap (Evil wizard of evil that isn't Ganon!)

Technically, Zelda II - Adventure's of Link would fit that bill too. You're trying to prevent the return of Ganon in that, but you never do face him.

[miffy495]

Also, when taken together, the Oracle games don't. Playing one gives you a code which you can put into the other, and when you play using that code, you beat Ganon after you beat that game's boss.

[Aussie Ben]

Yeah, I know that, which is why I didn't say "Oracle of Seasons and the crossover code that lets you face Ganon in the Oracle of Ages". Maybe. And don't get me wrong - one or two games where you face Ganon is fine. It's when EVERY MAIN GAME IN THE SERIES retreads the exact same story that I start to get a bit annoyed and bored of it all.

Wind Waker Spoiler

Wow, Tetra is an awesome character, so much better than dull, helpless Zelda...oh wait. Boo.

And I suppose my theory is a bit flawed with the whole Zelda II thing - I never could get through it, so I never knew. Didn't like the whole "repeatedly hit a billion enemies to up those stats!" thing. But apparently other games did, so go figure.

In summary:

I like Link's Awakening the best.

[miffy495]

Link's Awakening is also my favorite, but it was the first one I played, so that probably colours it a bit. Also the first game I ever beat. I took my Game Boy to a volleyball tournament when I was 9 years old and was killing time between matches when I finally beat the last boss. Good memories. I'll always have a soft spot for 2D Zelda as a result.

[toblix]

The shield is in the store. You just fucking buy it.

Oh, man. That's pretty embarrassing. Thanks.

How are you playing it on your PC? USB contol pad?

Yeah, I'm using an Xbox 360 wired controller. It's not that the control setup is bad, it's just that everything feels less precise than in the 2d games. I dunno. I'm starting to think that the sucking graphics may have affected my opinions of all the other aspects of the game a bit too much.

I'll give Ocarina another go tonight. After that crash, though, I'm a bit worried.

[Aussie Ben]

Link's Awakening is also my favorite, but it was the first one I played, so that probably colours it a bit.

Oh man, you too? Yeah, I borrowed Link's Awakening off a friend - it was the first Zelda game I ever played, and just couldn't put it down. (Ho ho ho! You can't hurt me while I'm in my bottle!) A really rich story (let's ignore that bottle quote though), and some incredible graphics for a GB mono title. After playing that first then going to Link to the Past, it still blows me away that people say that LTTP is the better title. It just seems to be a retarded hippo by comparison. I mean, come on - you can't even customise what weapons you want to use with the A and B Buttons! No Bomb Arrows? No kickarse combination of the Boomerang and Shield? I'm completely unstoppable with that!

Part of it is probably because it's the first Zelda game I played, but I honestly still believe that Link's Awakening is the superior title. It was funny when I played Ocarina of Time next, thought "Wow, this is great!" And then I played Link to the Past and thought "Wait a minute, I know what happens next here..." Deja vu all over again. And again. And again. Still a fun game though.

[eljay]

Link's Awakening is superb, but I played them in order as they were released and my favourite is Lin to the Past. Link to the Past was the originator of the gameplay formula that all subsequent zeldas used, sure a very small amount of the groundwork was done in Zelda 1, but LttP really kicked the whole thing off.

Also I agree with you Miffy, Wind Waker wins out of the 3D zeldas.

As to the Ganon thing, sure if you abstract the stories they are the same, Link vs Ganon to save Zelda, but all the periphery characters and the surroundings vary greatly (see Midna as a genius addition, and the boat was a character that made a big difference) and Zelda's role in the story has been quite different each time, so they do change it up somewhat.

A Spoiler about the ending of Twilight Princess Follows.

I was very disappointed that TP didn't end with Link losing to Ganon and Zelda calling on the gods to flood Hyrule, there was a moment where it really looked like it was going to happen..... but no..... light arrows instead. I really hope they make that game someday

[Salka]

Oh, man. That's pretty embarrassing. Thanks.

Yeah, I'm using an Xbox 360 wired controller. It's not that the control setup is bad, it's just that everything feels less precise than in the 2d games. I dunno. I'm starting to think that the sucking graphics may have affected my opinions of all the other aspects of the game a bit too much.

I'll give Ocarina another go tonight. After that crash, though, I'm a bit worried.

Hahahahahahah that completely made my morning, thanks! :D:D

You both rock so much.

That is QOTM

[miffy495]

Holy crap, I made QOTM! (kinda.) Hurray!

I was very disappointed that TP didn't end with Link losing to Ganon and Zelda calling on the gods to flood Hyrule, there was a moment where it really looked like it was going to happen..... but no..... light arrows instead. I really hope they make that game someday

That would be an awesome thing to see. Problem is, as I recall,

the intro to Wind Waker said that when Hyrule was drowned it was because the people waited for the hero to show, but he didn't. As there was no hero, drowning was the only option. They kinda wrote Link right out of the drowning of Hyrule scenario. Actually, after hearing your take, I'm a bit dissappointed at that. A Zelda where you had to lose in order to beat the game would be really powerful.

[eljay]

That would be an awesome thing to see. Problem is, as I recall,

the intro to Wind Waker said that when Hyrule was drowned it was because the people waited for the hero to show, but he didn't. As there was no hero, drowning was the only option. They kinda wrote Link right out of the drowning of Hyrule scenario. Actually, after hearing your take, I'm a bit dissappointed at that. A Zelda where you had to lose in order to beat the game would be really powerful.

Well, continuing this silly entirely spoiler conversation:

As I see it, a hero is only a hero if he succeeds . Also there's a case to be made for the general populus having no idea about Link's exploits in general, none of the Castle Town people know who you are.

[Spaff]

I'm glad someone else finally noticed that Ocarina of time is a big pile of shit.

[toblix]

What, it is?

But then... I...

[Thrik]

You're a big pile of shit.

[MrChlorophyll]

You're six pounds of shit in a five pound* bag!

*Or your regional weight measurement of choice.

[loonyboi]

The whole Zelda franchise is a steaming pile of overrated shit.

I played through the Wii one, and I enjoyed it to be sure, but now I'm playing Okami and it's just a better game in every conceivable way. The story's more interesting, the art's more interesting, the gameplay is more fun, it's less meandering and so on and so on.

Ocarina of Time isn't any better or worse than any of the other ones i've played (and I've played most, if not all of them at some point). I've only finished two: the Wii one and Majora's Mask. With both I had to really force myself to make it all the way through them.

[Salka]

I agree that all Zelda Games are a big pile of overrated steaming diarrhoea shit.

But that's just IMHO nobody ever agrees with me, I think Loonyboi may be the first, otherwise I wouldn't even have bothered saying it because I would just know everyone would immediately jump on me and disagree....

I don't like the way they're basically all the same game with the same music characters and wah wah wah and I end up lost and can't do anything without a fucking walkthrough, I hate that.

But I hear some people really love those games...

[eljay]

Spaff your opinion of Ocarina of Time is invalid since you refuse to play it based on the ugly visuals. There's nothing wrong with refusing to play a game because you can't stand the look of it mind, you just can't really call it shit....

As for loonyboi (and it seems Rusalka), the problem you have with the Zelda games seems to me to be down to your lack of desire to explore without so much guidance. I believe you said the same of the Metroid franchise and that you only liked Metroid Fusion (was that you or am I thinking of someone else?). If that was you then that demonstrates that clearly as it's the only one where you are guided by the hand through the game, which weakened it a little for me...

The games are very well designed for what they set out to do, which is reward trying different things and letting you figure stuff out for yourself, you don't like that type of gameplay, fine, but they are hardly shit games.

P.S. Yeah Okami is awesome, but it doesn't exceed TP in EVERY way, good god I wish the mumbling speech crap was done away with.

[loonyboi]

I don't mean to say they're shit games (even though that's exactly what I said). They're perfectly fine games. Just not my thing. Not even remotely.

I don't hate the fact that my hand isn't held when I play the games, it's just that there's no reason NOT to hold my hand. Zelda games don't do a very good job of creating a real world, so I don't feel like I should explore. I'm not going to find anything, so why not just tell me where to go?

In a game like Oblivion, I love just walking around because you never know what you're gonna find. In Zelda, I pretty much know there's nothing out there. I just end up wandering aimlessly instead of going somewhere useful.

I did like Fusion because of its linearity, but also because it had more of a story than Metroid Prime. I know some people like the weird tone in that game, but I found it to be lifeless and utterly without storyline. I was just in this dead environment, playing a character who never interacted with anyone. It just bored me.

[toblix]

What in the fuck is this?

I thought everyone loved Zelda! Why haven't you people said anything before?