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Erkki

Dark Messiah

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I started playing Dark Messiah and I must say it is totally awesome so far and I don't understand why it has gotten so low review scores (metascore 73).

The fighting is really cool, especially with the hardcore difficulty (added by the latest patch I think) where you can die easily from a few hits. So you really have to think strategically and use the environment against the enemies as much as you can. Thanx to the "kick" mechanic, this is one of the few games where standing on top of a staircase becomes a real advantage (in Gothic 3 for example, it was distrubingly a disadvantage). It's awesome to send the guards flying down the stairs.

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I liked it a lot ("liked" even though I'm still technically playing it) but I understand why it didn't do gangbusters with the scores. The first half (maybe) of the game is really great but all the appeal starts to wear off after a while, I found. I'm on the last level and I cannot motivate myself to finish it.

Games like this, which dazzle you with all this cool stuff at you at the very beginning, need to find some new stuff eventually. It can't just be like, eight hours in, here's a slightly more powerful sword.

The kick is a really great feature, though. I actually can't play a melee combat game anymore without wondering where the kick button is.

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I started playing Dark Messiah and I must say it is totally awesome so far and I don't understand why it has gotten so low review scores (metascore 73).

Because it didn't work for anybody.

After sitting at a loading screen for five minutes -- in the DEMO -- I finally got into the game, only to see it hang my system. Never touched it again. My experiences were, it seems, the norm.

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After sitting at a loading screen for five minutes -- in the DEMO -- I finally got into the game, only to see it hang my system. Never touched it again. My experiences were, it seems, the norm.

However, the post-patch norm is "no problems for anybody."

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However, the post-patch norm is "no problems for anybody."

Perhaps, but "post-patch" equals "post-review" for most places, which answers your, er, Erkii's question.

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I started playing Dark Messiah and I must say it is totally awesome so far and I don't understand why it has gotten so low review scores (metascore 73).

The thing is, it was pretty, but it wasn't very deep or intelligent. I played it with mild interrest, and found myself wishing for the more emersive and original worlds of Myst and the like, and even Dungeon Seige and Morrowind, since those games didn't need incredible graphics to make them feel worth playing. Even the kicking parts, fun as it was, felt scripted at times when a soldier would be standing at the edge of a cliff, back turned, practically saying "PUSH ME" and not turning around as you approached. Dark Messiah was a linear shooter that was an excuse to be able to kick ragdolls into pikes.

That being said, it wasn't all bad. It was a beautiful, shallow shooter.

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I thought it was harsh to give it 73 but its flaws are very easily described:

- It shoots its load all at once. It doesn't build you into the various aspects of the combat gently, instead you immediately have kicking, spikes to kick people towards and ledges. Those same elements then show up again and again and again.

- The story/general world is atrociously cliché and tired, so it can only lean on its combat gameplay for fun.

- It's much more of a Sims-type game than a normal FPS-type game. In the former, you have to make your own fun. In the latter, the contract between game designer and player is "keep beating the game and we'll keep it fun for you". It's easy to play the game by just kicking everything over the ledge, but of course that gets monotonous and boring after a while. It's up to you, the player, to make the fights interesting by forcing yourself to vary your tactics.

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Why would you, when you can kick somebody off a ledge?

exactly

But I've got a question for Erkki:

First off, I haven't played Oblivion, so I'm not trying to draw a comparison myself, but the two are essentially contemporaries, so if you've played Oblivion, I'd be interrested to know how they compare. Oblivion is supposed to be more open-ended and Sim-like, to use Spider-Monkey's analogy. And they are similar in many respects, being first-person RPG's and all. Obviously, the combat in DMoMaM is far superior and much more interractive, but does it outballance the sheer scale of Morrowwind and Oblivion? What do you, or anyone else for that matter, think?

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Oblivion is supposed to be more open-ended and Sim-like, to use Spider-Monkey's analogy. And they are similar in many respects, being first-person RPG's and all. Obviously, the combat in DMoMaM is far superior and much more interractive, but does it outballance the sheer scale of Morrowwind and Oblivion? What do you, or anyone else for that matter, think?

The scale of Morrowind and Oblivion? Not even. (I don't think anyone's said that in ten years)

Dark Messiah is barely an RPG. Not at all actually. It's Half-Life 2 with an inventory and a skill point system.

I wouldn't have even thought to compare them; they're not at all alike. DM is a far more limited, linear, smaller game than Oblivion in every respect except for the combat system. You can't get as deep into DM as you can in Oblivion. No way.

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I agree with Duncan about comparing Oblivion and Dark Messiah. They just don't compare at all.

I think it's made by the same people who made Arx Fatalis (or am I wrong?) and I think it definitely reminds me of both Arx Fatalis and Thief, and also Half-Life 2, not only for the engine -- Half-Life 2 was just as much a very linear shooter as this one.

I just made it to the same level that was in the demo and so far I haven't felt it get repetitive -- but maybe it's because I'm playing with the hardcore difficulty. I think this helps to keep the combat interesting a lot, but there are some rare battles that get nigh impossible because of this -- an Orc boss could kill me with a single leaping slash when I had full health so I had to quicksave / load a lot during that fight.

The flaws of this game are definitely starting to show for me too, though. I actually hope it will end soon, because I think I'm soon starting to feel that the combat is repeating itself. It's also become somewhat easier thanx to the Shield of Lightning and the Earthfire Sword. Of course, I could throw them away ... :)

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I think it's made by the same people who made Arx Fatalis (or am I wrong?)

You are correct.

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Talking of which, I saw an inteview with Richard Pryor's daughter last night. She had a show on at Edinburough called "Fried Chicken and Latkes".

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Ok, I see it now. The last third, or maybe even the entire second half of it pretty much sucked. Up to the first necropolis visit it was ok, but everything beyond that was reduntant redundant. And the ending was utter crap.

But smashing Orcs was cool! I now will start drooling waiting for Project Offset, and then cry out in anguish as it gets cancelled at some point.

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Ok I've been playing this and generally I've found the experience more frustrating than anything else.

Playing it on hard I die way too easily (I wish I'd played on easy because I'm too far to be bothered to start again). Any major fight I have to play multiple times because I keep dying - so much that it gets boring. I dont get a chance to enjoy the fights because I have to play so defensively to stay alive. I have to back into a corner so that no-one can flank me, because if they do - instadeath. The flinging into spikes and off ledges is often the only way to get past a fight, since my weapons and spells are so ineffective. Neither do I have a chance to fling crates about and interact with environment during a fight the way way I'm presumably meant to.

I can't tell how much space my body is taking up, so that I think I'm blocking but I still get hit - in the shoulder or knee or something, I can't tell. Likewise I can't judge my own reach - it was fairly late in the game that I discovered that a longsword will hit enemies that appear to be 10 feet away. Hell even the dagger appear to dice people up without making contact with them, but I keep intuitively getting right up close to what the contact range looks like. Even Oblivion had a more satisfying sense of contact.

Also instakill traps that are undectable unless you save up loads of points for the skill to see them. Lose

Normally I choose to go with magic in these games since it tends to be more visually and tactically interesting, but the magic is rubbish. again, no sense of impact when a fire arow hits a target. Even the higher level spells feel weak. The only good spell is telekinesis, which we know is really just the half-life 2 grav gun. So I gave up after a while and tried stealth, which is only effective against solitary enemies and feels tacked-on. Then finally tried melee with the results above. Oh and archery seems likewise pointless, but I do like the rope bow as a puzzle solving device.

The annoying thing is that there is almost a good game there - all the mechanics and physics of the source engine, dustructable environments etc. But the actual level design and game balance feels really retro. It's like playing Hexen 2 on the Quake 2 engine. (Ok there are a few atmospheric environments, but what I really mean is encounter design). Maybe it's the AI. Guys with swords rush you and surround you. Mages back away from you and summon meat shields. Meh.

I'm slowly giving up hope on there ever being a first person melee system that I like.

Maybe I'm just rubbish at the game, but I dream of the day someone designs a fluid, exciting, intuitive, procedural melee combat system, preferably in first person. But more and more I think I'm going to have to settle for the third person console action of God of War type games for my realtime swords and sorcery fix.

My next hope for the definitive sword fighting action game: Assassins Creed. If the combat in that plays the way it looks like it does, then I will need several pairs of new pants,

Next report will likely be on: STALKER

edit: ok a question: should I bite the bullet, admit that I'm crap, and start again on normal difficulty? Or should I push forward to the end and hope that something clicks in my head and I suddenly understand how to win the combat in a fun way?

edit edit (I'm on my out of the Necropolis after discovering Arentir's plans from his journal).

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AHGHGHGHGHGHHGHG

that is all.

edit: OK despite the fact that I'm on the last chapter I just can't be bothered to finish it. The combat has become infuriating. I'm going to go and play God of War II, then maybe after that I'll start this again on normal difficulty. The combat system is utter arse and this would be more obvious to if it wasn't for the kick death gimick.

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