Xbox 360 vs PS3 (yawn?)

[StarEye]

Microsoft is adult and enjoys being so. They're where you go when you want your truly "mature" (whatever that means...) games.

I'm not sure i can agree with you that, unless you think FPS and macho-games mature. I don't though, I don't see how Gears of War or Halo is any more mature than, say, Resident Evil or even Motorstorm.

Sony is like a teenager. Trying to be big, mature and impressive, but really too often glib and crass to truly engage a legitimately mature audience. Granted, when the next Gitaroo, Ico, etc hits, I'll be foaming at the mouth to get my hands on it. This is not, however, the kind of game that the company puts forward when showing off their system. Those games have subtitles like "Up Your Arsenal." Real nice there, Sony.

Can't agree with this either, and again you somehow say the games aren't mature enough, when in fact, the number of games is just larger, and has a wider selection of them. You make it sound like a game can't have colours to be mature, or any kids games at all. And what the hell is mature about Gitaroo? And what do you have against Ratchet and Clank? Did you play it? It's got a lot more mature approach than most games out there, but it's made in a way that everyone can enjoy it. It's colourful, yeah, and it's a platformer, and it's mature. Although I do agree that the title was a bit off, I guess it could be an internal joke or something.

I don't think the games consoles are that different. I also can't see how people don't find any games on the PS2 appealing, 'cause it's got excellent games in every genre known to man. It's got a wider selection of games than any consoles, and they have at least one AAA title in each genre. The only thing that really seperates the consoles are the selection of games and how broad that selection is. The Playstation reaches across the whole board, while the Xbox doesn't really have an enormous amount of games in any genre. It's majority of games are western made. And while they're usually different from japanese titles, they're in no way more mature.

I say buy your console based on what games you want to play, but don't think in any way that you're any more mature if you choose the Xbox.

[vimes]

On a related note, how long do you think it takes for consoles to get to the point at which anyone can say "THIS is the platform that suit me most in term of the type of games it supports" ? 1 year, 2 years, 6 months ?

[StarEye]

If you're not going to take history into account, you can't really be sure until it's been at least 2 years. Nobody knew what games would be available on the PS1 when that arrived. But with Nintendo Wii, we know we're going to get Zelda and Mario, and other Nintendo IPs. With PS3 we know we're going to get MGS4, Gran Turismo and the next project from the ICO/Shadow of the Colossus team, as well as Pro Evolution Soccer, which many prefers to play with a Playstation pad. The Xbox will offer Gears of War sequels, Halo, and games from Rare. If you add up the history of games on each console, we will realize that the best place to be for japanese developed titles will be the PS3, and if you love fps and typical PC games on a console, we know the Xbox 360 will have a strong lineup of those. Nintendo hasn't had good third party support for a long time, and not even multiplatform titles will be a given on a Nintendo console. The Nintendo is strongest if you really crave Nintendos first-party titles.

But if you're not going to analyze the console history, and just wait for more concrete evidence, you'll have to wait at least two years, maybe three.

[Duncan]

On a related note, how long do you think it takes for consoles to get to the point at which anyone can say "THIS is the platform that suit me most in term of the type of games it supports" ? 1 year, 2 years, 6 months ?

Two years seems about right (maybe less now that you generally know what to expect from the Xbox/PS) but for a lot of people it's probably ten seconds and then five years of rationalisation.

[Savage Cabbage]

On a related note, how long do you think it takes for consoles to get to the point at which anyone can say "THIS is the platform that suit me most in term of the type of games it supports" ? 1 year, 2 years, 6 months ?

Yeh, I guess you have to give it a year unless they come out with a few titles from the word go or make announcements for titles you are definately into. I went for a 360 because of Ridge Racer 6, Ghost Recon AW, and PGR3. They showed enough titles that gave me confidence that I would be able to get a good game fix from day one. With PS3 I have Ridge 7, and Motorstorm but not much else for a while that is at least exclusive to the console and worth spending £500 + (it is a while before MGS4 which I will get when it comes out). The Wii has Zelda and Trauma Centre to satisfy my needs.

But I think if you weren't a serious game follower as many here it would probably take a year to see a consoles potential to your tastes on the shop floor.

[vimes]

It would be interesting to analyse if the titles that were awaited at the release of the previous gen and the one before that, were the ones that really made the console worth it...

I mean, what were the best games on the most recent console you own and were they suprising games or games you anticipated a lot?

I ask you, IdleThumbers!

[StarEye]

Good question. I must say that most of my favourite Xbox/PS2 games weren't anticipated, and they were surprising titles. For example, I had no idea about Grand Theft Auto 3 until two weeks before release. I never thought of this when I bought the PS2. What I DID think of though, is Metal Gear Solid 2 and Gran Turismo 3, not to mention Final Fantasy X. And in the end, while more than just decent games, they weren't the highlights of the PS2 for me.

Some of my favourite games on the PS2; Rumble Racing (came pretty early on), SSX, ICO, Shadow of the Colossus, God of War, Metal Gear Solid 3, Ratchet and Clank, Jak and Daxter, Burnout, Silent Hill 2, Onimusha, The Mark of Kri, Sly Cooper, Maximo, Shadow of memories, Pro Evolution Soccer. 90% of these games were completely unknown to me when I bought the PS2. This happens with all of the consoles, really. I bought the Gamecube for Wind Waker and Super Mario Sunshine. Wind Waker I loved, but I was pretty dissapointed by SMS. I bought the Xbox for Splinter Cell and I knew Psychonauts were coming out eventually. I got KOTOR, Fable and Prince of Persia. Those three, plus many more, were completely unknown to me when I invested in an Xbox.

[miffy495]

I'm not sure i can agree with you that, unless you think FPS and macho-games mature. I don't though, I don't see how Gears of War or Halo is any more mature than, say, Resident Evil or even Motorstorm.

Ok, time for a little bit of self defense. When did I mention Gears of War or Halo? I've never been a fan of the Halo series, and while the idea of mowing enemies down with a chainsaw/gun is undeniably appealing, I don't hold it in the higher echelons of maturity. What I mean is a broader kind of maturity. The tactics of GRAW, the new story mechanics (and actual attempt [emphasis on attempt] to tell a good story) brought in in Dead Rising. Then there's the fact that I love Rare. From an emotional maturity standpoint, Viva Pinata seems a hell of a lot more well-adjusted than Resistance or, yes, Gears of War. That being said, the Metal Gear series is one which I am in love with for it's mature storytelling and the fact that it doesn't treat the player like an idiot. Hell, the story is interesting enough for me that I don't even really play the game. I'll put it on the easiest setting and blast through from cutscene to cutscene, and it still feels worth it. But that's one example on the PS3 that I can hold up against several on the 360. Our hobby is admittedly still learning that mature means more than gore, but of the two HD systems, the 360 seems to me to be making a better effort. Just an observation, and how I've seen the current console war to be shaping up.

Can't agree with this either, and again you somehow say the games aren't mature enough, when in fact, the number of games is just larger, and has a wider selection of them. You make it sound like a game can't have colours to be mature, or any kids games at all. And what the hell is mature about Gitaroo? And what do you have against Ratchet and Clank? Did you play it? It's got a lot more mature approach than most games out there, but it's made in a way that everyone can enjoy it. It's colourful, yeah, and it's a platformer, and it's mature. Although I do agree that the title was a bit off, I guess it could be an internal joke or something.

Well, as stated above, I have nothing against colourful games. I love them, in fact. My friends still make fun of me because I bought Super Princess Peach. I didn't say that Gitaroo was more mature. I brought it up because when I got a PS2, it was one of the main motivating factors. (I loves me them rhythm games...) I also have nothing against Ratchet and Clank. It's a fine series, but the titles are a solid example of what I was trying to say about Sony. They like to use their sarcasm and teenager-ish wordplay as a selling point. See also: Daxter. The fact that the wisecracking sidekick got his own game where he goes around wisecracking a lot also helps me make my point. Ratchet itself is good, and sometimes I'm in the mood for that sense of humour. I'm not bashing it. I played and liked it. Again, just calling it as I see it.

I don't think the games consoles are that different. I also can't see how people don't find any games on the PS2 appealing, 'cause it's got excellent games in every genre known to man. It's got a wider selection of games than any consoles, and they have at least one AAA title in each genre. The only thing that really seperates the consoles are the selection of games and how broad that selection is. The Playstation reaches across the whole board, while the Xbox doesn't really have an enormous amount of games in any genre. It's majority of games are western made. And while they're usually different from japanese titles, they're in no way more mature.

When did I say that I don't find games on the PS2 appealing? I brought up Gitaroo and Ico, didn't I? Other PS2 games I have loved include Rez, the Metal Gears, Devil May Cry, SotC, Sly Cooper, Lego Star Wars, (cross-platform, but I have it on PS2) the Parappa series, and of course Guitar Hero. And that's just off the top of my head. At the moment, the PS3 doesn't interest me, as it's selection of games is not what I like to play. I already said that there will probably be something in the near future that I'm dying to play on it. I love Japanese titles as well. For a good chunk of time over the past summer, I played nothing but imports on my DS, GBA, and PSP.

My statement on Sony was not a reflection of their games library, but of their marketing. the PS2 has many, many amazing games. Be it from an artistic, storytelling, or pure gameplay perspective. These are not often the ones that they aggressively push though. They like to market the games that have that sarcasm to them. This gives them, I feel, the public image of the previously mentioned teenager. Compare this to the Gears of War "Mad World" ad. The game and song do seem oddly paired, (and as I've said, the game isn't really the pinnacle of maturity) but it's obvious the people that Microsoft is trying to get interested in this game. It's making far more of an emotional push than Sony usually tries for.

Phew. That was far more than I intended to write. I hope you get my meaning now. I was trying to give you some concessions in my earlier post. Yeah, the PS3 really does have it's merits. The thing is, right now, none of them are really a big draw for me. We really do need to wait for a while to see what the consoles offer, but going from the previous generation and what we've seen of the current one, that's how I felt. The previous generation I was console agnostic, and played on all 3. I intended to remain so through this one, but the closing of Liksang really, really pissed me off. I'm still interested to see what Sony brings to the table though. Now that I've defended myself for agreeeing with you (I thought?) I think I'm going to go to bed.

EDIT: Crap, that took me a while to write. Neither of the two previous posts were up when I started writing this. I'd say the majority of games that I fell in love with were totally out of nowhere. Lego Star Wars is a fantastic example of this, as is SotC. Honestly, I'd never even heard of Ico until about 2 years after it's release, so that was a great one too when I finally got around to it. Chibi Robo and Battalion Wars shocked the hell out of me too. And then, of course, Guitar Hero. A game that I was so skeptical about and really only knew the basics of when I picked it up turned into a total obsession that I'm still playing a year later. And it's sequel. I switch between them for the playlists.

[StarEye]

What I mean is a broader kind of maturity. The tactics of GRAW, the new story mechanics (and actual attempt [emphasis on attempt] to tell a good story) brought in in Dead Rising. Then there's the fact that I love Rare. From an emotional maturity standpoint, Viva Pinata seems a hell of a lot more well-adjusted than Resistance or, yes, Gears of War. That being said, the Metal Gear series is one which I am in love with for it's mature storytelling and the fact that it doesn't treat the player like an idiot. Hell, the story is interesting enough for me that I don't even really play the game. I'll put it on the easiest setting and blast through from cutscene to cutscene, and it still feels worth it. But that's one example on the PS3 that I can hold up against several on the 360.

Hehe, the PS3 has only been out in a limited part of the world for a couple of weeks, and you're comparing the selection of games to the 360? Plus, the only reason GRAW isn't on the PS3 is because the PS3 wasn't out when GRAW was released. But it was released on the PC, PS2 and Xbox.

That IS a nice ad, but it in no way reflects how MS pushes their games. It's one single game out of many, and more of an exception than a rule. Also, there's a LOT of Xbox 360 ads that really doesn't make sense at all for the, or they make sense but it's so completely abstract that it's hard to see the point of it. Just like Sony's the third place ads for the PS2. They all have different approach to their ads, but one isn't more mature than the other. I've noticed that MS have an aggressive ad campaign for the moment. Sony doesn' take the same route, but I don't see how they approach their ads are any less mature than MS' approach.

Also, I happen to think that ad for Gears of War is more like a pathetic attempt at seeming mature, while in fact it's just a macho-shooter. It tries to hard to be mature, and I think it shines through.

EDIT: Crap, that took me a while to write. Neither of the two previous posts were up when I started writing this. I'd say the majority of games that I fell in love with were totally out of nowhere. Lego Star Wars is a fantastic example of this, as is SotC. Honestly, I'd never even heard of Ico until about 2 years after it's release, so that was a great one too when I finally got around to it. Chibi Robo and Battalion Wars shocked the hell out of me too. And then, of course, Guitar Hero. A game that I was so skeptical about and really only knew the basics of when I picked it up turned into a total obsession that I'm still playing a year later. And it's sequel. I switch between them for the playlists.

Yup, as you said, the majority of your favourite games on all consoles came from out of nowhere, and thus there's no reason to think that the PS3 will be a worse choice than the Xbox. Not suggesting that you said so. Just saying, 'cause it does seem like you're comparing the games on two systems way too early.

[Twilo]

I don't think the rather poor Gears ad has anything much to do with some feigned maturity; it's more a case of:

1) - You can't shows what Gears is really like on television at 5 in the afternoon. It's the bloodiest and most visceral (in the sense of internal organs viscera) violent game I've played in a long time. The curb stomp from American History X is a special move, for crissakes.

2) - Cashing in on "Mad World" as a Christmas hit can't hurt.

Tears for Fears isn't very Gears-y; the song over the end credits was famously described as a hip-hop fart in the face.

It's also worth considering that the best place for Microsoft to place the 360 right now is as a console full of cinematic experiences (opposed to the gameplay-centric Wii; there's no PS3 here this Christmas) and the ad does an alright job of that; even if the song is so awful.

If, like me, you have some vague plans of owning ALL the consoles, there's a proper time to purchase each of them. The 360's buy-now-ness is peaking around now (Bioshock, Alan Wake and Halo 3 are due in the next couple of months. Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey some time after); the DS is long past buy-now and right into hit-yourself-if-you-don't-own-one. The PS3 won't hit properly until at least MGS and some Final Fantasy's are there; possibly White Knight Story (or whatever they're calling it now) too so... Christmas 2007.

I'm not going to venture a guess on the Wii but it's probably going to be a similar timeframe to what the DS had, so maybe 6-8 months. Ouendan Revolution would be the clincher there.

押忍！

[vimes]

I think that the main problem is that no next-gen console is either complete shit - not even the ill advertised, ill-released PS3 - or complete genius. Apparently, even the Wii still needs to be properly used by excellent games in several genres so to prove it really is as innovative as the nintendo execs pretend.

Man, why do we have such a hobby when we are so freakin' poor?

[StarEye]

we are so freakin' poor?

Speak for yourself!

[miffy495]

Man, why do we have such a hobby when we are so freakin' poor?

I hear ya. Goddamn I work a lot to cover gaming. Full time student + a lot of work means that I'll end up playing portables more than anything else, and just losing sleep when something awesome hits console. If I hadn't been given a solid raise this summer I wouldn't have even considered getting a 360, and even then there was a bit of a boost given by scholarship money. Could be worse. I know guys who blew large chunks of their scholarships on tatoos...

[StarEye]

I know guys who blew large chunks of their scholarships on tatoos...

I hope they were of the interactive kind, like the one that Meathook from Monkey Island has.

[miffy495]

Unfortunately no. I would love to be able to go up to Brian and have a conversation with his chest-skull, but he just got the rest of his arms done. He's one of those "ink all the way up both arms" kinda guys. Never really seen the appeal of tatoos myself, but they seem to make him happy, so whatever. Then there's Jeff, who got a flaming skull on each kneecap. From what I've heard, the kneecap is the most painful place to tatoo. Y'know, just in case you were considering it.

[General Fuzzy McBitty]

I wouldn't mind getting a tattoo, but I wouldn't get anything that I couldn't cover with a short sleeve dress shirt.

Lots of people are still uptight during job interviews in the US about exposed tattoos.

That might change in the next 10 or 20 years though.

[twmac]

Just read this thread and all seem to be valid opinions.

A bit disappointed that the captions didn't have the option: "It's a bloody golf game, who gives a shit?" underneath.