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Movie/TV recommendations

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On 11/04/2018 at 7:23 AM, twmac said:

You guys are sick and need help, Season 1 of Parks and Rec is still very good.

 

Love is awful, I hate watched the first season.

 

I couldn't bring myself to finish the first season of Love. Everyone was just so unlikeable. On top of that, it's a comedy that isn't funny at all. Then again, that's pretty much my assessment of everything Judd Apatow makes.

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If you've ever been curious about 1950's Hollywood sci-fi but have been afraid it'd be too creaky and old fashioned (and in most cases that'd be correct) The Thing From Another World is still an amazing movie with a casual wit and very little of the squareness you'd get from something like Earth Vs. The Flying Saucers or The Day the Earth Stood Still. It really holds up and is worth a watch. And it's different enough from John Carpenter's remake that you won't constantly be comparing the two in your head: the tone, story and monster are all almost completely different. 

 

Also it has one of the most insane fire stunts I've ever seen in my life. IT LOOKS SO IRRESPONSIBLY DANGEROUS.

 

 

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Yeah, I found the 'title song' segments very self-indulgent without the songs actually being funny or, uh, 'musically good' - needed clever verse lyrics and some different musical styles at least.

 

I generally agree with the defense of the show, but I can totally understand people bouncing off it hard. The thing about Mickey's flaws vs Gus's is that his are all about denial whereas hers are out on front street, so it takes longer for Gus and the other characters to really define his issues - Mickey actually starts dealing with her shit a lot sooner and more honestly than Gus. But this can sometimes feel like the show is not equal in its acknowledgement. 

 

I did consider it as an example of a "comedy show interested in nurturing it's characters humanity where they don't come across as immature all the time" which Patrick mentioned as rare in the Crazy Ex-Girlfriend thread (I didn't want to bump that thread with it though as my partner and I have given up on the show). The characters (who I guess are early to mid thirties?) at least act like 22 year olds rather than 12 year olds...

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I bounced off hard from Love because I can't make time for Gus' character. I don't know if he is this but he reminds me too much of the sympathetic quiet-nerd-who-needs-a-chance archetype who probably lives in New York or dreams of going there, definitely listens to The Shins and knows a whole lot more about art and culture than you (knowing more than you is a major pillar of his identity) and whose ideal relationship match is somewhere between a sexual companion, therapist, and a student.

 

There's just something going on there that provokes a strong visceral reaction from me.

 

It might not be a Woody Allen character exactly but it feels like a Jason Schwartzman character (an actor who I do like despite some very insufferable -for me- characters)

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I totally get that the characters in Love are not as likeable as usual and it makes it less watchable to many. But I also think it doesn’t necessarily have to be the case.

 

Usually anti-heroes or just horrible main characters in TV are so horrible that they’re actual drug dealers, serial killers. People are not used to rooting for just slightly flawed people. Traditionally it either has to be someone actually evil or someone good you could look up to. And I guess characters who fall somewhere in between can seem boring in comparison - they are not super likeable and also their stories are not as interesting as those of the cop serial killer or teacher become drug dealer, or a mob boss. Or at least someone who is in prison.

 

I kind of like that some shows are also exploring how to tell stories of normal flawed people who don’t necessarily fall under “<flaw> with a heart of gold”. I think You’re the Worst is the best of these, but Love is not bad either.

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I just recently finished the last season of Love. Loved it the whole way through. Didn't realize it was such a polarizing show until the last couple pages of this thread.

 

23 hours ago, Ben X said:

Yeah, I found the 'title song' segments very self-indulgent without the songs actually being funny or, uh, 'musically good' - needed clever verse lyrics and some different musical styles at least.

 

Come on man.

 

I didn't come to choc a little

I didn't come to choc a little

I didn't come to choc a little

I came to CHOCOLAT!

 

Genius!

 

Ok ok. It's a weird brand of hipster anti-comedy where you gotta be in on the joke that it's a TERRIBLE JOKE to get the joke. Also helps if you're familiar with and perhaps even slightly enjoyed Paul Rust's real-life ex-band Don't Stop Or We'll Die.

 

 

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On 13/04/2018 at 6:36 PM, Ben X said:

Dollhouse? That ended up amazing but the first few episodes were dreadful.

 

That's the one, I don't think I made it farther than the first two episodes, so that might be the reason.

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On 14/04/2018 at 5:44 PM, Erkki said:

I also didn't get a Woody Allen vibe.

 

 

I don't think they were that horrible people. They had flaws. Maybe even really off-putting flaws. Maybe the early first season focused too much on their flaws, in fact. I know I found Mickey to be really annoying the first two episodes.

 

I think it was acknowledged that Gus was also very flawed. I mean, I don't even know how you would write him to be that flawed without acknowledging it. How would you even go about being more explicit about it? Whatever it is, it's not what I'm looking for in movies and TV.

 

(side note: I may have brought out some similar criticism to not acknowledging the rottenness of characters towards Three Billboards, but I think there's a difference of nuance. My argument there was that first they let bigotry be seen as the normal and then they made the bigots get away with things and the victims pay. And then they washed clean the biggest bigot, making him turn into a semi-hero. It's not about not acknowledging)

 

I think a better show with flawed people trying to have a relationship is You're the Worst, though.

 

 

Oh god, someone else summed up my feelings towards Gus perfectly (Shins, knowing more than other people etc). I get that these people are flawed and I have definitely met people like them in real life, but I find these people inufferable in real life and don't want to watch a show about them. It is the same reason I can't stand The Office, I knew people like Brent in real life and the damage these people did to work environments makes him as a character unbearable.

 

I guess for me it was the fact that Gus kind of gets to slide through the first season just basically doing whatever he wants with a few bumps in the road but ultimately he is fine, whereas Mickey is a mess who hits rock bottom and then tries to crawl out.

 

I kind of agree with you on the Three billboards's problems, I still liked the film though. Should I check out You're the Worst or am I just going to want to murder the people in that?

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12 hours ago, twmac said:

 

Oh god, someone else summed up my feelings towards Gus perfectly (Shins, knowing more than other people etc). I get that these people are flawed and I have definitely met people like them in real life, but I find these people inufferable in real life and don't want to watch a show about them. It is the same reason I can't stand The Office, I knew people like Brent in real life and the damage these people did to work environments makes him as a character unbearable.

 

I guess for me it was the fact that Gus kind of gets to slide through the first season just basically doing whatever he wants with a few bumps in the road but ultimately he is fine, whereas Mickey is a mess who hits rock bottom and then tries to crawl out.

 

Yeah +1

 

16 hours ago, Erkki said:

I totally get that the characters in Love are not as likeable as usual and it makes it less watchable to many. But I also think it doesn’t necessarily have to be the case.

 

Usually anti-heroes or just horrible main characters in TV are so horrible that they’re actual drug dealers, serial killers. People are not used to rooting for just slightly flawed people. Traditionally it either has to be someone actually evil or someone good you could look up to. And I guess characters who fall somewhere in between can seem boring in comparison - they are not super likeable and also their stories are not as interesting as those of the cop serial killer or teacher become drug dealer, or a mob boss. Or at least someone who is in prison.

 

I kind of like that some shows are also exploring how to tell stories of normal flawed people who don’t necessarily fall under “<flaw> with a heart of gold”. I think You’re the Worst is the best of these, but Love is not bad either.

 

It's not a saints or sinners thing for me I love watching some properly flawed ordinary people. The extrapolation of me not liking this character meaning I only like characters you find traditionally 'exciting' is not one I agree with. It's more specifically about this archetype who I see getting a relatively freer pass than many others in media because typically they hew closer to the idea of a self insert or a beloved sendup common to introverted self absorbed indie directors (not necessarily a statement about Judd Apatow). I don't find their actions charming; I can understand how/why they act but ultimately I'm just tired of their shit.

 

Anyway I've been really enjoying Grace & Frankie since I started it and season 2 of Atlanta has been fantastic for me. I think the more I watch Atlanta the more I appreciate the weirder spin off episodes. I already loved B.A.N. and with the recent Darius adventure and Paperboi's haircut episode, it's been amazing.

Grace & Frankie particularly because a somewhat believable twilight years drama about old people whose only super power is they're mostly well adjusted enough to share their feelings and look beyond their own (sometimes) is rather refreshing.

 

Also I saw Love, Simon recently and y'know it's fine, tame teen drama about a coming out story and high school public shaming surrounding 4 friends with almost perfect lives and they all live in the suburbs with massive mid-upper class houses. It just goes to show that even the kid that gets a modern car for their 16th birthday and drives his friends to pick up iced coffee every day can also have some really tough problems too yaknow?

Okay, I have a small chip on my shoulder from this, I've read too many privileged kids saying that gay movies aren't for them because the main character isn't also a white dude who has almost everything and that they don't identify with the mostly indie movies about poor kids with gay problems.

It's fun, it's nice to have a light hearted gay movie, I wouldn't have had it quite this way but it's fine. We get another teen movie where the protagonist narrates the movie but this time the main guy is a mostly 'normal' (straight passing) gay boy. 
I kind of had the same reaction to Closet Monster because it has a similar protagonist only that character and the film deal with more serious issues; but CM went through all that and ended with a very soft landing.

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With season 5 of Arrested Development releasing this month, I've started watching the season 4 remix.  I wasn't a fan of the original season 4, the show just doesn't work without the characters to play off of each other as well as the interconnected storytelling that slowly puts a jumbled series of events together.  The remix helps this somewhat by re-editing the season to be more like the first three but since they filmed only a handful of scenes with more than 3 characters present it's still off.  The story moves along better and fewer jokes require you to watch an entirely different episode for the payoff but the fundamental problem remains.  None of the characters are really strong enough to stand on their own, they work best in small doses or when supported by the others.

 

Still, I'm excited to see if season 5 can be a return to form.

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Found another interesting Soviet film from the 60s - I Am Twenty (It's on Mubi here for a few more days). It's about the generation who entered their twenties in the 1960s, and so were born around the end of WWII. Like many Soviet movies, it has some propaganda in it (ends with a visit to Lenin's mauseleum), but it was also initially banned like many great works. It mostly deals with ennui and coming of age and mostly due to the presenting of ennui I would compare it to Antonioni. Perhaps some elements of French New Wave are also seen in it, and I would also compare it to other contemporary soviet work such as I Am Cuba. It's not quite as polished as the latter, but something in the camera movements seems familiar between them.

 

One thing I noticed is that the camera is often kept below chest level, even at waist level perhaps, leading to the characters having more stature than is common in western cinema. Now that I think of it, I think Kalatazov and Urusevski did the same in The Cranes Are Flying, I Am Cuba and Letter Never Sent. I could also be wrong that this is a soviet thing or uncommon in the west, I haven't actually paid that much attention to the height of the camera when watching movies.

 

[edit] Forgot some more notes: I kind of think the film focused too much on men, though, and did not present women as equals to men. Also, Tarkovski has a small role in it and gets slapped.

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Same feeling here, SAM! Saw the first ep of the Arrested Development S4 remix. Because of the way the story was originally cut up, it still feels a little like a string of snippets woven together. I intuit that further up it'll feel less jarring. And, granted, this may also be because I already know the story and its original structure, so my mind may be screwing with me.

 

I never really dug S4's structure from anything but a technical perspective, so I'm also hoping S5 will return to the story-a-week format. Story-a-episode.

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I watched the rest of the season and the pattern continued.  It would be impossible to overcome the inherent flaws without filming more scenes so I'd say they did the best they could with what they had.  Still the fact that they recognized it at all leaves me with hope for season 5.  On a side note, it was really depressing to be reminded that a major plot point of trying to build a wall between the US and Mexico and how completely ridiculous an idea that is has now become a reality 5 years later.

 

In other news I started the Lost In Space remake.  I'm only about 3 episodes in but so far I'm enjoying this more than I anticipated.

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I finished up Lost In Space.  Overall I liked it.  The momentum of the first episode doesn't quite carry through the rest of the season but there's still a good amount of tension and character.  The biggest disappointment to me was Dr. Smith.  I'm glad they went away from the silly, over the top portrayals of previous incarnations of the character, but I found this Dr. Smith to be really unlikable and off-putting.  Maybe that was the intention but I didn't love hating her, I just hated her.

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I was told the first three episodes are a bit of a slog, but I'm halfway through the first ep and enjoying it so far.

 

I'm also enjoying the Netflix series The End Of The Fucking World, as recommended by @Spaff on the Double Fine Discord. 8x20min episodes, really easy to get into and a score by Graham Coxon.

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In more negative news, I've now finished Ash Vs Evil Dead season 3 (which is now the final season, as the show got cancelled). Overall, I wasn't a fan of the series. It occasionally had some stand-out great sequences (like JKO said, the fluid-based one in S3 was great), but I didn't like the sub-Supernatural lore-ification, I didn't like what they did with Ash (for some reason he's a racist lech now), I didn't really like any of the supporting characters and it overall just felt quite repetitive and unimaginative.

I would have much preferred them to cobble together a few million and make a low-budget Evil Dead 4 that followed up on the original ending to AoD (or that treated both that ending and the theatrical ending as canon alternate universes and brought them together, as was the plan at one stage).

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I finished watching American Crime Story: The Assassination of Gianni Versace. It's a really impressive piece of work: beautifully crafted, with a stunning central performance from Darren Criss. It's also one of the most uncomfortable viewing experiences I've had lately. 

 

It flies closer to the sun than most shows I've seen in terms of - I don't know that 'glorifying' is the right word - but in terms of presenting the audience with a sympathetic story about a person who did horrible things. Because there's a strong argument for saying that these are not stories we should be listening to today. You could call it a toxic story. If you feel like depiction, especially through stylised recreation, equals implicit endorsement no matter what the context, you will probably find little to appreciate here.  

 

Part of this is because Criss, playing Andrew Cunanan, is so good; partly this is because the story somewhat struggles to find equivalent interest in Versace's life. It takes a while before it becomes apparent what the show is about, in a political or societal sense. For several episodes I wasn't convinced it was going to be about anything except stylised violence - but it is - and when it finds its grip, it digs in hard.

 

I really think it is better than The People vs OJ Simpson. I liked that series, but it felt inconsistent to me - too many scenery-chewing performances from John Travolta and Nathan Lane, and I was never really convinced by Cuba Gooding Jr. (Also for me at least it was entirely outclassed by OJ: Made in America, which is a masterpiece.) 

 

But it feels weird to compare them because they've essentially gone full speed in the opposite direction with this season. This is a thing where - and perhaps this is because it was written entirely by a single author - every episode feels like a genuine unfolding of the next part of a story. It's novelistic rather than journalistic. I would be very surprised if I see anything better than it this year.

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1 hour ago, marginalgloss said:

...t was entirely outclassed by OJ: Made in America, which is a masterpiece.

 

I will never stop talking about OJ: Made in America being one of the greatest pieces of filmmaking I've ever witnessed. What an insightful series of stories about race, celebrity, wealth, news for entertainment, violence against women, and citizen-police relationships in the united states.

 

I was a tiny child when the OJ trial happened so I didn't really understand anything that was happening, but after watching OJ:MiA, I constantly think about the straight line you can draw from Eula Love to Rodney King & Latasha Harlins to Trayvon Martin, BLM, Eric Garner & Eric Holzclaw, etc. 

 

It seems obvious in retrospect, but OJ: Made in America made me think about how for much of my life (the 90's, 00's and the first part of the 10's) race was a conversation that was 'over.' Except OJ:MiA made it so clear to me that the conversation didn't go away we just ignored it until there was another set of events that hit critical mass making us talk about it again.

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I joined a film club and I saw some films. Right now in cinemas it's a pretty limiting selection, but:

  • Deadpool 2 is basically what you'd expect after Deadpool 1; it's an R-rated superhero-themed comedy. Its plot works a little better than Deadpool 1's, it's not quite as fresh but lordy it's trying, and they've got a budget so they can have more than a couple of locations. I imagine you'll have the same reaction to it as you did to the first one. I got what I paid for. I would have liked it if they'd been a bit more ambitious than 'superhero movie but with some lampshade hanging' but then I'm basically always in the mood for satire and I'm not sure how far you could go with a satirical Deadpool before it stops working.
  • Solo is basically a Star Wars film except nothing that's happening is as exciting as they think it is. It's not really a heist film in the way that Rogue One was a war film. It's like the prequel trilogy except with a decent script: you know where it's ending up, and it doesn't have the room to surprise with its characters or the inclination to tell its own story. (It also has this obsession with beating you over the head with call-forwards, so when they fuck with the continuity a little it's more of a bother than if they had been a little more independent.) I want these films to tell new stories and borrow Star Wars iconography, but Lucasfilm want to tell Star Wars stories that masquerade as something else and I think it's time I accept we want two very different things here.

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The first half of Season 5 of Arrested Development is out and I finished it up last night.  It's... meh.  The format is the old familiar one but the pace feels slow in comparison.  The story and jokes tend to drag quite a bit.  I got a few chuckles out of it but nothing made me really laugh.  Hopefully they can tighten it up in the second half.

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I watched the first two episodes and it kind of feels like it's clearing the deck from the previous season.

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On 5/28/2018 at 3:13 PM, Merus said:
  • Deadpool 2 is basically what you'd expect after Deadpool 1; it's an R-rated superhero-themed comedy. Its plot works a little better than Deadpool 1's, it's not quite as fresh but lordy it's trying, and they've got a budget so they can have more than a couple of locations. I imagine you'll have the same reaction to it as you did to the first one. I got what I paid for. I would have liked it if they'd been a bit more ambitious than 'superhero movie but with some lampshade hanging' but then I'm basically always in the mood for satire and I'm not sure how far you could go with a satirical Deadpool before it stops working.

 

I was disappointed. I thought the plot was really tight on the first one, here it's all over the place. And it has that comedy sequel problem of mainly just redoing a ton of jokes from the first one. Also, I was annoyed that

they fridged Vanessa. Apparently there was a mid-credits scene where he brings her back to life using time-travel and stuff, but I missed that and besides it doesn't change the fact that the movie suffers for it.

 

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I thought the plot of the first one was fairly poor - taken up by a large and tedious flashback and mostly a way to string scenes together. This one felt like there was a bit more logic to the scene order.


 

Spoiler

 

I thought they were having Vanessa be Lady Death, myself. It's sort of fridging? Like, violence against that specific woman with very little character is a motivator, but then the movie shifts the motivation to 'Deadpool wants to get out of prison' to 'Deadpool wants to stop Cable', and she probably gets more to do as a dead spectre giving advice from beyond the grave than she did, alive, in the first one.

 

I mean Vanessa is a paper-thin character and given that they un-murdered her in the credits, I'd hope that if she does return she actually gets some depth.

 

 

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I just got back from a week in China and shotgunned a bunch of superhero movies on the flights.

 

Justice League - :tdown:  A real mess.  Muddled plot, murky visuals, no character.  The only movie I've seen in this "universe" was Wonder Woman and JL does absolutely nothing to make me want to watch any others.

 

Black Panther - :tup:  Pretty good.  Creative visuals, interesting characters, fun action.  I wish a little more had been done with the plot but otherwise I liked it.

 

Thor Ragnarok - :tup:  Awesome.  Of all the Marvel movies thus far the Thor ones have been the low points but this one was fantastic, possibly the best Marvel movie yet.  I think part of what makes it so great is how much it contrasts against the previous "serious" film, but you can tell they knew what they were doing was silly so they just embraced the fuck out of it and it worked.

 

Avengers Infinity War - :tup:  I went into the movie expecting a lot of mindless action and I got exactly what I wanted.  I wouldn't call it a good movie per se but it did the job of being entertaining which is ultimately all I need from it.

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Travelled to Thailand and watched a bunch of fillms too:

 

Justice League - Pretty much what I expected. Terrible from beginning to end and uneven

Game Night - I am starting to get tired of these comedies set around couples and a ludicrous plot device. Not bad, not good, just a film

I, Tonya - Margot Robbie is fantastic in this jet-black comedy. Sebastian Stan is creepy and unpleasant.

Jumanji: Welcome to the Jungle - I found this more enjoyable than the original film. Jack Black is genuinely very good as the selfie girl trapped inside a man's body. I was worried that it was going to be one joke for 2 hours but the writers decided to throw that out of the window quickly and just have fun, as does Jack Black. Kevin Hart is the weakest as he does the least amount with his part.

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