Twig Posted January 17, 2015 To be perfectly honest, I thought the original movies were kind of garbage. Though, to be fair, I watched them after I watched Stand Alone Complex: All of It. I'm now watching Arise, which I guess is like a retelling or a prequel, I'm not sure, it's really been so long that I don't remember what happened in the original movies. Anyway, Arise is all right. I'm diggin' being back in this particular cyberpunk world enough that if there are any flaws, they don't stand out to me. EDIT: Ooooh. "On January 8, 2015, it was announced that Arise would be adapted into a "TV series" in the spring of 2015." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gormongous Posted January 17, 2015 To be perfectly honest, I thought the original movies were kind of garbage. Though, to be fair, I watched them after I watched Stand Alone Complex: All of It. I'm now watching Arise, which I guess is like a retelling or a prequel, I'm not sure, it's really been so long that I don't remember what happened in the original movies. Anyway, Arise is all right. I'm diggin' being back in this particular cyberpunk world enough that if there are any flaws, they don't stand out to me. EDIT: Ooooh. "On January 8, 2015, it was announced that Arise would be adapted into a "TV series" in the spring of 2015." Yeah, Arise has always been a "test" to see if the franchise still "worked" as a "series." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brannigan Posted January 17, 2015 Who needs that when scarlett johannsen is signed on to star in the gits movie! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gormongous Posted January 17, 2015 Who needs that when scarlett johannsen is signed on to star in the gits movie! Actually, and I won't get into it too much because Twig will probably jump all over me, but it bugs the hell out of me that Scarlett Johansson has that part. She's a great actress, but the compelling thing about the Major is that she's a hyper-competent lady in her forties who's fought in wars and seen shit. There's a chance to reflect that with an older actress who'll bring some real gravitas to the role, but instead we're just abiding by the rule that every female sci-fi protagonist has to be Scarlett Johansson now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mawd Posted January 17, 2015 On the subject of Ghost in the Shell adaptations I hear there is already a miniseries out which is trying to be more faithful to the manga for better or worse (I wouldn't know). Also along with a live action Hollywood film in the works there is a new Ghost in the Shell movie coming from the same team that did the miniseries. Personally I prefer the first movies because I like the art style more. Plus well I've only seen some sections of the tv show but the city in the films feels more canon to me; more fitting with the plot. I think the chase scene after the garbage truck, the main song from the score playing while the camera works through slice of life sections of the city, and the final scene with the tank are some of my favourite moments in film. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Erkki Posted January 17, 2015 I heard the Imitation Game treats Alan Turing's story in a not totally honest way. Still want to see it, though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Horse Bag Posted January 17, 2015 I'm actually borderline cynophobic. If I'm not really, really familiar with a big dog, I'm extremely uncomfortable with it. And if I encounter a big dog unaccompanied just out and about, it terrifies me. So depending on how its presented could actually make this a horror movie for me, which is why I think its interesting. It sounds like Kansas arrived at our nightmare future early. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mawd Posted January 17, 2015 I heard the Imitation Game treats Alan Turing's story in a not totally honest way. Still want to see it, though. I heard that too. I actually held off on seeing it for the same reason. But after a while my memory of the article faded, the trailer seemed good enough and my partner really wanted to see it. I don't remember the article too well but it had something to do with the portrayal of his sexuality and the relationship between that and the central plot. On its own it's a fine film but nothing in film is ever truly divorced from context; least of all a biopic. I'm actually borderline cynophobic. If I'm not really, really familiar with a big dog, I'm extremely uncomfortable with it. And if I encounter a big dog unaccompanied just out and about, it terrifies me. So depending on how its presented could actually make this a horror movie for me, which is why I think its interesting.During xmas I stayed with a cousin of mine who has a Staffordshire Bull Terrier cross. He's extremely friendly aggressively so and would certainly horrify most non-dog people (and/or you) as he bounds over to play with them. He's ah set to lose some of his more aggressive qualities after problems with roaming and dog fighting though so he's not going to be as much of a worry. It's funny though, the first day of my stay he went out for a few hours (their property is ready to be fenced but out of a family of three builders no-one has done it yet which annoys my cousin a hell of a lot) and ended up playing on the nearby beach with a random frenchman; the second day he was restrained by a member of the public, whisked away by the local council and returned with a $30 fine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Twig Posted January 17, 2015 On the subject of Ghost in the Shell adaptations I hear there is already a miniseries out which is trying to be more faithful to the manga for better or worse (I wouldn't know). Yes that's Arise, which I mentioned, and seems good. Actually, and I won't get into it too much because Twig will probably jump all over me, but it bugs the hell out of me that Scarlett Johansson has that part. She's a great actress, but the compelling thing about the Major is that she's a hyper-competent lady in her forties who's fought in wars and seen shit. There's a chance to reflect that with an older actress who'll bring some real gravitas to the role, but instead we're just abiding by the rule that every female sci-fi protagonist has to be Scarlett Johansson now. To be fair, the Major is also a brain in a full-on cyborg body, so she can look however she wants. So while I agree with you to some extent, it's also not really anything that'd ruin it for me, if they played their cards right. (They won't.) What bothers me more is they're making a Japanese character white. Scarlet Johansson can't be Motoko Kusanagi, so they're going to have to basically create a brand new character. And it won't take place in Japan, because of course it wouldn't that wouldn't be very interesting Japan's a different country! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TychoCelchuuu Posted January 17, 2015 The whitewashing stuff is just bullshit. If you're going to change all the Japanese people to white people then why bother making it a Ghost in the Shell movie in the first place? It's not like you can't rip them off or something. That aesthetic is a dime a dozen these days. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Twig Posted January 17, 2015 Basically exactly how I feel yes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Merus Posted January 17, 2015 I think they can compensate for it in the script by having the Major have American-made artificial body parts, which makes her stand out weirdly (not that she didn't already), but I agree they shouldn't have to. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eot Posted January 17, 2015 I don't think ethnicity is particularly important to the character(s), in a vacuum I wouldn't mind the casting (in the same way I wouldn't mind an Asian take on a western story), but in the context of Hollywood racism it's a lot more problematic. I wonder about the nudity though, I guess they'll just do something like the 5th Element. I think it serves a purpose in the movie, showing how Motoko doesn't care about being nude emphasises how detached she is from her robot body, but at the same time it's a little gratuitous. I mean, how convenient that you have a robot body that matches people's sexual ideas so that you can get away with close ups of her breasts. I was doing some reading here and there about the movie and some people tried to say that it wasn't about titillation, but come on. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TychoCelchuuu Posted January 18, 2015 It's obviously about the titillation as much as it is the detachment from her body. She could look like anything and she just happens to be a massively busty but otherwise skinny lady. If she were not conventionally pretty at all, or especially if she were by most standards ugly, then I'd buy the whole "it's only about the alienation from her body" line, but although that's a huge part of Ghost in the Shell, another huge part is that Shirow takes the entire series to be an excuse to objectify women because he likes objectifying women. As the GitS wiki points out, he's quoted in one book as saying that, when he was drawing an orgy scene, he made it an entirely lesbian orgy, his reason being (and this is a direct quote, as far as I can tell) "I drew an all-girl orgy because I didn't want to draw some guy's butt." It's also pretty convenient that the only woman who is a main character is the one who treats her body like nothing so much as a disposable tool, which for some reason often entails getting naked, and so on and so forth, but whatever, this is pretty much just a circlejerk. I really like Ghost in the Shell and it's not like everything it has to say about women is regressive, but there's no need to make excuses for the blatant, obvious sexism in the form of sexual objectification that pervades the whole series as much as anything else. Johansson has no problem getting naked for stuff (see Under the Skin, for example, which is a great movie by the way) so I guess they COULD bring that over from the manga/anime, but I seriously doubt they'd want, like, a hard R rating on their sci-fi action movie. Whatever. The whitewashing is what annoys me - whether ethnicity is important to the characters or not is something we could argue about (I think it actually is) but even if it isn't, I'd still be a little peeved, because Hollywood takes any excuse it can to get Asian people out of starring roles in, like, anything. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Twig Posted January 18, 2015 Yeah there are any number of ways you could justify her being white, but... They won't. And they shouldn't have to, because she shouldn't be white. That's not who the character is. Instead she's white because it's Scarlett Johansson and who doesn't want to see her be a badass. (I mean I actually like her for a role like this, I think; she does the action thing well enough, yeah? I think.) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gormongous Posted January 18, 2015 Yeah there are any number of ways you could justify her being white, but... They won't. And they shouldn't have to, because she shouldn't be white. That's not who the character is. Instead she's white because it's Scarlett Johansson and who doesn't want to see her be a badass. (I mean I actually like her for a role like this, I think; she does the action thing well enough, yeah? I think.) Scarlett, so hot right now. Scarlett. The whitewashing bums me out, not just because we live in a racist society and that's awful, but also because they'll have either have to i) come up with some kind of in-universe justification for her whiteness that will steal screentime from other parts of the script and probably be dumb in a way that does violence to the really interesting fiction of Ghost in the Shell, like saying that her body was made in America even though America's a fragmented mess after a civil war, or ii) set the movie in America, removing the uniqueness of the fiction entirely as well as the previous two issues. It's just a bad idea and I'm sad. It wouldn't happen anyway, but I'd like to believe that casting an Asian woman, possibly older, would force the director and screenwriter to consider the setting more carefully, especially what makes it unique, in a way that having cyberpunk Black Widow as the protagonist wouldn't. Who am I kidding, it's going to be shit no matter what, name a good live-action adaptation of any anime ever. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
juv3nal Posted January 18, 2015 Who am I kidding, it's going to be shit no matter what, name a good live-action adaptation of any anime ever. OBJECTION! (actually I have no idea whether its any good, but Miike is wacky at least) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gormongous Posted January 18, 2015 OBJECTION! (actually I have no idea whether its any good, but Miike is wacky at least) I was just being an angry dude, I just remembered that the Kenshin movie is supposed to be good. English adaptations, maybe? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Twig Posted January 18, 2015 In my will-never-actually-happen fantasy land, I picture Scarlett Johansson existing in the movie for all of like ten minutes before that body is destroyed and the Major gets a new body that is Asian. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mawd Posted January 18, 2015 Speaking of wacky Japanese movies I think it's time to finally watch this. I just need to find the damn thing first. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Twig Posted January 18, 2015 fwiw there's totes some dude butt in the third gits: arise episode (or "border" as they call it for some weird reason (japan)) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Merus Posted January 18, 2015 OBJECTION! (actually I have no idea whether its any good, but Miike is wacky at least) It's not great but it's probably the most watchable movie based on a game. It doesn't take itself at all seriously and that helps a lot. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TychoCelchuuu Posted January 18, 2015 It only took three movies, two seasons of the TV series, and god knows how much manga to get there, but finally we've got dude butts! Now we just need Batou to be naked like, 24/7 for much of the rest of the life of the franchise and eventually we'll hit parity between the objectification of men and women. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gormongous Posted January 18, 2015 It only took three movies, two seasons of the TV series, and god knows how much manga to get there, but finally we've got dude butts! Now we just need Batou to be naked like, 24/7 for much of the rest of the life of the franchise and eventually we'll hit parity between the objectification of men and women. That's mostly the movies, though, and everyone knows Shirow is gross. The two seasons of TV really didn't trade in the overt sexualization of the Major, and then Kenji Kamiyama made a series that involved literally thousands of naked dudes, including the main character, onscreen for minutes at a time. Eden of the East wasn't very good, and that's a shame, because I want Kenji Kamiyama to be someone I can count on... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bolegium Posted January 18, 2015 Is Arise any good? Twig's "all right" sounds more like a shrug than confirmation that it will blow me away. Rinko Kikuchi (Pacific Rim) seems pretty popular in fancasting for the Major. If race wasn't an issue (vomit) Emily Blunt would be cool seeing how badass and muscular she was in Edge of Tomorrow, which funnily enough is another semi-whitewashed adaptation Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
