Movie/TV recommendations

[ThunderPeel2001]

Hmm. That sounds a bit sucky. Bit it took Buffy an entire season to become any good, maybe Dollhouse will be the same?

[Thyroid]

and the anti-intellectual, anti-science themes are back too. It's the latter part that I really take issue with. The notion that ignorance and gut instinct trumps well informed reason has been vaguely simmering throughout the series, coming to the fore every now and then.

I haven't seen the show, but I don't suppose it's more of a "Science shouldn't be allowed to roam 100% free" is it? I remember people taking issue with some of the last Michael Crichton novels, saying that science should have no restrictions, when, uh, it very well should. (Nuclear bombs, all that hoola.)

[Wrestlevania]

Stone me to death, but I binned following Dollhouse after the pitches in writing and character quality across the first 6 episodes. Then I heard it was being canned and that was the final straw.

We're enjoying series 2 of Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles far more--the writing is consistently good-to-excellent, as are the characterisations. We're at the mid-point in the season now, and it strikes me that the writers have really captured the contrasting sentiments and details that made the first two Terminator films great. From the heart-in-mouth action, to the technical intrigue, to the faux-sentimental nature of the Terminators as they try to blend in with modern day American life.

It's really good TV.

[OssK]

We might not want to deviate too much from the subject here but I might want to recall to you that the Nuclear bomb has been called an aberation by many a scientist, it's an unnatural thing to happen on our stable planet because it's not hot enough and so...

What you could go around saying is "military applications of science should have limitations" (although military applications fund most of the high end science running nowdays (in europe at least)) but science in itself should be free to roam if practiced by stable people and not mad scientists in my opinion. The whole clonage thing for example is only limited by ethics which is external to science but should we at least try it once ? I think we should.

[Nachimir]

What could possibly go wrong?

[brkl]

Wrestle, the series is pretty poor until the episodes that come after 6. Now that it's cancelled, why not see the rest?

[Wrestlevania]

Now that it's cancelled, why not see the rest?

Why does that make me think of a cat with a slice of buttered toast glued to its back?

[DanJW]

I haven't seen the show, but I don't suppose it's more of a "Science shouldn't be allowed to roam 100% free" is it? I remember people taking issue with some of the last Michael Crichton novels, saying that science should have no restrictions, when, uh, it very well should. (Nuclear bombs, all that hoola.)

The whole concept of the show is utterly Frankensteinian. Especially the last couple of episodes, when 'the monster' finally makes his appearance.

I thought there were opportunities for some really interesting hard sci-fi and philosophy that were missed, with such subjects as transhumanism and psychology of identity (almost touched on in the mind vs body dialogue in the final episode). Since a second series looks unlikely, we won't get to see that develop (and seeing as Fox are so risk-averse, that stuff would have to be worked in very slowly to avoid "alienating the mass audience" )

[SignorSuperdouche]

I don't suppose it's more of a "Science shouldn't be allowed to roam 100% free" is it?

There is an element of that, for sure, but it goes way beyond that. One example is in episode 7 (I think) where Echo/Caroline

breaks into an animal testing laboratory. Once inside she says something to the effect of "I don't know what they're doing here, but I know it's evil.". She admits she didn't even know what research was being done before she broke in BUT she doesn't seem to think ignorance of the facts should stop her from being able to make authoritative judgements.

There's a few other examples sprinkled throughout the series.

I totally agree that there were a lot of missed opportunities. I don't know how much of that was down to studio interference but it's a damn shame either way.

[brkl]

Hmm, but I think the way Caroline was portrayed was as a bit of a clueless environmentalist. I don't think the show is anti-science, but like a lot of sci-fi, it deals with how science can be misused.

[SignorSuperdouche]

OK, so maybe I was supposed to want to punch her in the face, but given that she's one of the main protagonists I assumed that I was supposed to be on her side.

Another example that's less open to interpretation is from the final episode:

When Topher is trying to look at the evidence and reach a conclusion about what Alpha is going to do that way, Ballard comes out with some guff about how he believes you can't erase a persons soul. I have no problem suspending my disbelief and accepting that per se, but Baller has no expertise in the techniques Topher uses, no medical or scientific training and no evidence to support his claim. In the Dollhouse universe you don't need any that though as Ballard is proven right and Topher, with all his in depth knowledge and experience, is proven wrong.

That's exactly the same anti-intellectual thinking that allows Jenny McCarthy to use her "mommy instinct" to diagnose her son with autism and justify her anti-vaccination stance. It's wrong headed and potentially dangerous.

[eljay]

Except

Topher's stance was equally wrong-headed and dangerous, he presumes to know everything about how identity works and leaves no room for anything else.

Sure Ballard's explanation had no scientific basis, but that doesn't mean there isn't one and that the basic idea he is suggesting shouldn't be considered. An arrogant scientist is a terrible thing and barely a scientist at all, true science strives to challenge its preconceptions to find the truth rather than settle with what currently seems to fit.

In addition, Ballard was approaching the problem from the perspective of behavioural analysis. Attempting to find the reason why alpha did the things he did and exploring possible causes. If anything while his words were less scientific his approach was more so than Topher's

[DanJW]

I was thinking the same thing Lawrence. Topher's stance makes little sense in that he had probably witnessed more 'residual personality' than anyone else (such as Echo asking to be imprinted). Framing the possibility of residual memories as 'having a soul' was incredibly clumsy and lazy writing, in my opinion, and not conducive to the themes of the series at all.

Likewise Ballard's sudden

joining the Dollhouse

at the end was not something I found credible. I just don't see the character doing that.

The final episode was an annoying mix wrapping things up as quickly as possible, while returning to the status quo and leaving other questions open eg

Caroline still a doll, Alpha still at large, the source of the messages sent to Ballard through the dolls, the 'true purpose' of Dollhouse that those messages hinted at. Now of course these long-arc plot will never get finished.

[brkl]

BTW, that wasn't the actual final episode. There's a 13th one, but it probably won't be aired.

[DanJW]

Oh, yeah, apparently it is for the DVD only.

[SignorSuperdouche]

I see where you guys are coming from regarding Topher, but there's two points I'd like to make on that front

First, at the nub of it

Topher was still trying to look at the known facts for an answer and Ballard still rejected the facts saying "they don't tell me anything" whilst pinning everything on his uninformed hunch.

Second, I agree that Topher was wrong to completely rule out the possibility - especially given prior events. However I saw this as being part of the anti-science motif as, throughout the series, they depicted scientist as arrogant, stupid and evil:

• You've got Topher who's arrogant and incompetent.
  
• Rossams head scientist who was also arrogant and I recall DeWitt claiming the only reason he was promoted over her was that he's too incompetent to have her job.
  
• The research student who was shown to be greedy and unrepentantly callous.
  

OK, so it's not a massive list, but that is all the sciencey people in the series that I recall (or at least the ones who were fleshed out enough to know anything about them).

I don't know. If nobody else sees it the way I do maybe I'm looking at it all wrong, but I still genuinely feel there's an anti-science theme to the series as a whole.

[brkl]

Topher is also one of the main characters and sympathetically portrayed. It's much more about how they are using the technology than the technology itself. I just don't see it. Most sci-fi has elements which could be said to be anti-technology if you really want to, but sci-fi is also usually written by people who are fascinated by technology. If you don't want to be at all critical of the possibilities of technology, you just end up with a boring utopia without any credibility.

[Moosferatu]

I just watched the trailer for The Road. It looks fantastic.

[Sergey]

What are some good, classic detective films? I really enjoyed Chinatown (1974).

[Wrestlevania]

I just watched the trailer for The Road. It looks fantastic.

It does look good, though it still looks much too light for my tastes--as in: there's too much daylight.

I understand this is a big budget mainstream adaptation, but I hope it doesn't detract too much from the spirit of the book.

The trailer also suggests we'll see a lot more of the backstory with the wife/mother. No bad thing if you ask me, and the casting still looks great several months on. Didn't know Guy Pearce was in it, though, which is a nice surprise.

Really looking forward to seeing this.

[Roderick]

So, any love for Star Trek here? I really liked watching it, because it has snazzy lines, interesting characters and beautiful visuals. Plotwise the movie is a large, gaping cesspool of holes and impossibilities, which you have to embrace or overlook if you want to get any enjoyment out of it.

[DanJW]

So, any love for Star Trek here? I really liked watching it, because it has snazzy lines, interesting characters and beautiful visuals. Plotwise the movie is a large, gaping cesspool of holes and impossibilities, which you have to embrace or overlook if you want to get any enjoyment out of it.

I thought it was OK. Better than Star Trek has been for a while, to be sure. Not as good as the media is saying. I put all the hype down to a massive communal sense of relief that it doesn't suck.

You're right about the plot, especially the plot surrounding the Romulans. I even went and read the crossover comics miniseries 'Countdown', to see if they could justify it there. But no;

apparently a civilization with FTL travel and communication failed to see a supernova coming at relativistic speeds from several light years away. That's all there is to it. And then they got pissed at Spock for no real reason.

I guess I was hoping that the reboot would include throwing some actual science and astronomy and stuff into the worlds best known sci-fi space exploration series (even just Adam's Rule would be nice). But that was too much to ask. But as you said, plot-related sensibilities must be left at the door.

Casting was good though.

[ThunderPeel2001]

Hey now, there's a lot of intergalatic red tape, you know! You can't just go around dishing out red matter willy nilly. It needs to go through the right channels, meetings, paperwork, more meetings, more paperwork. Plus there's the waiting list. We're talking at least 200 years!

Also,

I don't think the supernova was "heading towards" them or anything... a supernova is just a collapsing star, in this case turning into a blackhole. Presumably their sun had decided to self destruct. Also, as for not communicating... you'll remember that the radiation knocked out all communications -- which was what that scene swollen Kirk was all about. They did obviously manage to get some transport away from the blackhole in order to alert the federation

. Hmmm. I guess it does sort of make sense now that I've attempted to defend it.

Yes, there were a few plot klunkers in the there, I'm sure, but on the whole it was very enjoyable! (If not super-awesome or anything.)

[Nachimir]

I'm pretty sure stars go through massive changes before going fully supernova, and that happens on a cosmic timescale rather than a human one... ah, nevermind. The plot was nonsense, but it served it's purpose of allowing them to fork the universe and start telling new stories.

So, any love for Star Trek here?

Yes. I really enjoyed it. I thought they succeeded in making Starfleet a lot more badass than it's been before, and managed to avoid just turning it into EXTREME Star Trek. I liked that a lot of the in-jokes were really quick too, without it telegraphing or dwelling on them, e.g.

the skydiver who died being the one in the red suit

and

the woman Kirk was seducing being green when the lights went up, and not just post-processed green, but bad make up green

Bones' backstory and rationale for his nickname was brief but nice.

The trademark J J Abrams 3D lettering was a bit weird, especially when it went through IOWA and VULCAN, then IOWA and VULCAN again. It should have been kind of obvious when locations were revisited...

[Horticulture Tycoon]

I hate to break up the Star Trek converation (I haven't seen it yet), but I just want to recommend a few Detective movies to Sergey real quick:

What are some good, classic detective films? I really enjoyed Chinatown (1974).

The Big Sleep is the granddaddy of detective movies, so definitely start there if you haven't seen it. Though it's easily the most confusing movie of all time, I've seen it at least five times and I'm only just now starting to figure out what the hell is going on in that movie.

But mostly I want to recommend D.O.A. (1950) and Kiss Me Deadly, which are two of my favorite movies and neither is as well-known as I think they deserve to be. Also The Long Goodbye, which is another great 70s detective movie, and The Maltese Falcon, which is not quite the classic it's cracked up to be in my opinion, but still pretty good.