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The only really bright spots in Steamboy are the incredible mechanical designs and the goddamn amazing soundtrack by American composer Steve Jablonksy, who has a history of contributing spectacular music to arguably crappy projects (eg: the Michael Bay Transformers movies).

 

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I like the ED for Kekkai Sensen.

 

This isn't really related to the current conversation. I just like it (music and video (specifically the silly dancing bits)!) a lot.

 

https://vimeo.com/125364397

 

(Youtube apparently auto mutes the video anytime someone uploads it.)

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I finished The Rolling Girls (which also has a sweet OP I like them colors and the song is super catchy!!!)

 

 

It's super vibrant and has lots of multicolored rad looking explosions. The characters are good. Individual episodes, and smaller story arcs are good. It's a shame the over-arching plot was super blah. In the end I enjoyed it, and I always like a classic "follow your dreams" type of thing, but the Big Story definitely brought it down. C'est la vie.

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Just finished Mushishi and the first season of Mushishi Zoku-Shou. I'm super happy with how the first series ended, and how it was overall consistent and meaningful, and how each episode was layered and had lots of potential for interpretation. Unfortunately this half of Zoku-Shou feels a little weaker, and seems to have a lot of contrived scenarios that exist either to make Ginko look cool while ghostbustin or to push some pretty weak melodrama. Overall it has a much less chatoic and negative view of a mushi filled world than the original, which I suspect is because the first series got pretty damn grim, but I liked that about it. It made Ginko feel fallable and gave the world an incredible weight to it.

Zoku-Shou is a lot more watery, and Ginko seems to have way more control over every situation than he used to and as a result a lot of the opportunities to look into Ginko's character go untaken, which was an interesting part of series one. Right now the episode format is:

1) I'm sick with gimmick fever

2) Ginko has an easy solution

3) Sad music plays as I make a gray moral choice.

Granted it's a hard formula to pull off, but it's formulaic nonetheless.

Still, when it works, it's friggin great. I have individual thoughts about each episode, but I think I'll wait to finish the second season to share them. It's much easier to digest and unpack this time around, which feels less fun than the original series, but it has a certain flavor. Also I'll never get sick of weird semi-sentient bug gods as a concept.

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Just finished watching Fullmetal Alchemist for the first time. It's probably been talked to death here as it's one of those must-see kinda things, but I just have two questions.

 

Is it worth watching Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood? I understand that it's just a reworked version of the anime more closely following the manga, but I super enjoyed the original anime so I'm kinda interested. Probably wouldn't watch it immediately, but wondering if it should be on my radar.

 

Second question, is it worth watching any or both of the sequel full-length features? The first one seems pretty hard to find on blu-ray (like $100 used on Amazon!!!) so I wonder if it's worth tracking down.

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Just finished Mushishi and the first season of Mushishi Zoku-Shou. I'm super happy with how the first series ended, and how it was overall consistent and meaningful, and how each episode was layered and had lots of potential for interpretation. Unfortunately this half of Zoku-Shou feels a little weaker, and seems to have a lot of contrived scenarios that exist either to make Ginko look cool while ghostbustin or to push some pretty weak melodrama. Overall it has a much less chatoic and negative view of a mushi filled world than the original, which I suspect is because the first series got pretty damn grim, but I liked that about it. It made Ginko feel fallable and gave the world an incredible weight to it.

Zoku-Shou is a lot more watery, and Ginko seems to have way more control over every situation than he used to and as a result a lot of the opportunities to look into Ginko's character go untaken, which was an interesting part of series one.

 

I believe that the episodes from the first season of Mushishi were selected specifically from the ten-volume run of the manga for being especially good and filmable. As excited as I am to watch the second season ("Zoku Shou" just meaning "next chapter" or something), I do wonder if the episodes are going to be slightly but constantly decreased in quality as time goes on, since the source material's being mined out. I also wouldn't be surprised if a ten-year gap was enough for the crew of Artland, especially the director who's not had much to do in the meantime besides Detroit Metal City and Flower of Evil, to lose a grip on the show's special strengths, especially in tone.

 

Just finished watching Fullmetal Alchemist for the first time. It's probably been talked to death here as it's one of those must-see kinda things, but I just have two questions.

 

Is it worth watching Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood? I understand that it's just a reworked version of the anime more closely following the manga, but I super enjoyed the original anime so I'm kinda interested. Probably wouldn't watch it immediately, but wondering if it should be on my radar.

 

Second question, is it worth watching any or both of the sequel full-length features? The first one seems pretty hard to find on blu-ray (like $100 used on Amazon!!!) so I wonder if it's worth tracking down.

 

Man, JonCole. That's twice you've pulled a Jake here, holding back comments that you feel won't contribute to a conversation that you suspect has happened but still isn't being had.

 

First question: Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood splits sharply from the original series after a half-dozen episodes. Overall, the tone is more consistent in being less dramatic/maudlin and more apocalyptic, but I've found that the difference between the two is honestly to taste. However, they share a lot of characters, places, and events (although not the overwhelming majority that you think) that make them extremely inadvisable to watch back-to-back. Brotherhood would be a weird mix of confusing and disappointing like that. Instead, it's the perfect kind of show to watch once you've forgotten specific details of the original. For example, when you can no longer picture each of the seven of the Homonculi in your head, it's probably the right time to watch Brotherhood.

 

Second question: I have a confession. I like Conqueror of Shamballa a lot. I found the ending of the show itself to be very weak, particularly in its reliance on extreme internality to make the emotional gut-punches land. Conqueror of Shamballa tears back into the story with the big picture, as well as some interesting sci-fi stuff that seemed to drop out of the show. It gives it a real ending, so I find it essential, but it was really poorly received, for reasons I don't remember at all but probably have to do with Character X or Character Y not getting the ending they "deserved," so FUNi printed a relatively limited run and did not reprint. Three or four years ago, it cost ten bucks for the Blu-ray, but I guess they're out of stock everywhere now. Wish I'd known, really. Either buy/rent the DVD or torrent a copy. It's an early-cycle FUNi Blu-ray, so it's not worth busting your hump or your wallet for an HD transfer.

 

Don't even both with the other movie, the one for BrotherhoodSacred Star of Milos is at the same time a boring slog of a story, a rushed mess without any sense of pacing or stakes, and a violent affront to the continuity of the show into the chronology of which it's been inserted. It's a two-hour mid-quel OVA with all the flaws of the format, so don't waste your money. The compilation of omake OVAs is a better treatment of the series.

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Huh I liked Sacred Star of Milos. It wasn't super fantastic, but the action was fun to watch.

 

I guess I'm coming at it from a different angle, though, because I found the story (of both versions) to be fine. Just... fine.

 

Also the second season of Mushishi is great so.

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Twig what do you actually think about Mushishi Zoku-Shou? It's one of those things where I oscillate between letting the ambiance wash over me and obsessively nerd analyzing stuff, so I don't have a coherent opinion.

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I've only watched the first half. As much as I love Mushishi, it's something I really have to be in the mood for, I can't force myself to watch it or it ruins things for me. I seem to recall you talking about the story of Ginko, and maybe not liking it when it was explained where he came from and all that? Or maybe that was someone else. Anyway, it's difficult for me to react to something like that, because I honestly just don't care about whether or not his origin is explained, as long as the beat by beat individual episode stories are good. And the vast majority of the time, including when Ginko's backstory is explored, that holds true for me.

 

I definitely tend to let the ambiance wash over me (hence why I say I really have to be in the mood for it), and as such I don't really spend a lot of time analyzing my feelings or analyzing the quality of the series as a whole. It's just something I love to experience. The world and the atmosphere is, for me, unique (even though I've seen that era of Japan thousands of times!) and strange and enjoyable, and I can't help but have positive feelings for all of it.

 

I guess if I had one complaint about what I've seen of Zoku-Shou, it's that it maybe has a little too much... continuity? Like the bug messenger girl came back, and the mushi wine stuff kind of carried across episodes. Maybe the biggest strength of the original series is how every episode, let's use a dumb metaphor and say each episode is a tree, stood firmly on its own soil without having to touch the branches of another. But with Zoku-Shou, they're getting a little twisted up all together and shit and this is why I don't use metaphors. I still don't think I actually really care, though, to be honest. I'm sort of just reaching. LIKE THE TREES ARE REACHING???

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Man, JonCole. That's twice you've pulled a Jake here, holding back comments that you feel won't contribute to a conversation that you suspect has happened but still isn't being had.

 

Jake is very inspirational to me.

 

I really liked Fullmetal Alchemist. Probably the most notable thing about it is that I felt that characters actually developed over time for good reasons, which is something I'm not quite used to with anime. It was a good thing to attach myself to while watching it, because at times the plot felt a bit uneven and hard to follow. I particularly felt that the back and forth on the morality of -

 

the Philosopher's Stone, the lengths to which Ed/Al would have to go to get it, and then the fact that they just got it and things didn't seem to change all that much was fairly weak. It just seemed to be a bit of a MacGuffin, with everything being about something totally different having to do with dealing with the sins of one's past and alternate dimensions.

 

This is not to say that I thought the plot was necessarily bad or disappointing, just that it was hard to follow and ultimately not that valuable to my enjoyment of the series as a whole. Also better than what other anime I've watched is how well FMA managed to wrap up character arcs. Save for a few notable but not "important" characters who were kinda forgotten in the climactic ending, most everyone actually got to see some kind of satisfying resolution to the respective paths they chose. I mean, I really wish that -

 

Hawkeye and Mustang would just kiss each other already

 

But I guess we don't always get what we want.

 

I'm sorely wanting more of the series to watch, so I'm going to see about finding Shamballa to get a bit more closure.

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After being amused by the Platinum Spice Old Spice Nisemonogatari mashup then being subsequently hypnotized by the Platinum Disco opening I decided to start watching Bakemonogatari.

I hate it. It's visually impressive and has cool presentation but it's wasted on fauning over sexy high school girls while knowlingly winking at the audience, saying "pointing out these specific aspects of a male experience and wrapping it up in a cool looking package makes this gross experience subversive and ok".

The end.

Anime sucks.

Why do I force myself to do this.

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After being amused by the Platinum Spice Old Spice Nisemonogatari mashup then being subsequently hypnotized by the Platinum Disco opening I decided to start watching Bakemonogatari.

I hate it. It's visually impressive and has cool presentation but it's wasted on fauning over sexy high school girls while knowlingly winking at the audience, saying "pointing out these specific aspects of a male experience and wrapping it up in a cool looking package makes this gross experience subversive and ok".

The end.

Anime sucks.

Why do I force myself to do this.

 

Bakemonogatari is doing something more than that, but it's a slow build that doesn't really pay off until subsequent seasons, when it slowly becomes clear that the anime itself thinks that Araragi is full of shit and that his heroics do not actually make him a good person or worthy of the female affection that seems to surround him. I personally wouldn't recommend it to anyone because it's such a delicate balance that's got no guarantee of paying off for everyone, more so that (say) Mad Men, where it's much more quickly made clear that you're not actually supposed to like or identify with the nominal protagonist.

 

I initially found Bakemonogatari disgusting as well, despite loving other stuff from that director like Sayonara, Zetsubou-Sensei and Arakawa Under the Bridge, and didn't try to watch the second season (well, technically the second half of the first season, as Aniplex has chosen to market Nisemonogatari) for over three years, so it's not really a matter of experience either. The series just plays its cards so close to its chest that it's hard to distinguish from something truly bankrupt and exploitative, but it was worth it in the end for me, at least.

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Yeah it's specifically that room for error that makes this really weak to me. If it's trying to communicate something, it's doing so with enough leeway to rope in someone who doesn't care about its message, in a way that it functions as a sexy fantasy anyway. This isn't a new thing though.

If it turns out that the girls of the week exist only to point out something or other about the main character so that he develops, implicitly or explicitly, I'll definitely stop watching. I'm not sure how this kind of balance would even hold up in any circumstance if none of the female characters have emotional depth or are beyond stereotype. I haven't watched Mad Men, so maybe it's possible in some form/medium.

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Bakemonogatari was weird for me because I really enjoyed the interactions between Araragi and Senjougahara, and then was subsequently disappointed over and over when Nise- failed to acknowledge their relationship at all. I feel like that whole thing had way more potential than any of the other characters and just never went anywhere. (Keep in mind that I didn't watch anything after finishing Nisemonogatari.) This was years ago also so maybe I'm just mis-remembering everything. 

 

But yeah, Sayounara Zetsubou-Sensei. Now that's a show. 


I started Samurai Champloo the other day because I saw it on Netflix. I'm about two episodes in, but it seems pretty cool. I don't know if I like the aesthetic as much as Cowboy Bebop, but I'm trying not to compare the two too much because Cowboy Bebop sets a pretty ridiculous standard. 

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If it turns out that the girls of the week exist only to point out something or other about the main character so that he develops, implicitly or explicitly, I'll definitely stop watching. I'm not sure how this kind of balance would even hold up in any circumstance if none of the female characters have emotional depth or are beyond stereotype. I haven't watched Mad Men, so maybe it's possible in some form/medium.

 

Well, the kicker there is that all the characters (bar a couple of incidentals) are introduced in the first season. They then serve as a static and recurring cast for all future seasons, wherein we learn more about them as they gain distance from Araragi and build relationships with characters other than him. It's really misleading, I know, and if I were to give the writers feedback, I'd recommend some way of reassuring the viewer that these characters they're being repeatedly forced to learn aren't disposable but are part of extremely front-ended worldbuilding.

 

The idea, I guess, is that we are introduced to all of these women as discrete sexual fantasies of Araragi, only to have that assumption gradually betrayed as details accumulate outside of his limited perspective of them. That they come off as flat fucktoys on first encounter is ultimately an indictment of Araragi, not of the women, and I think the show becomes fairly unequivocal about that by Monogatari Series Second Season, when characters start openly circumventing Araragi in order to preserve their own agency and get shit done without his martyr complex getting in the way.

 

Bakemonogatari was weird for me because I really enjoyed the interactions between Araragi and Senjougahara, and then was subsequently disappointed over and over when Nise- failed to acknowledge their relationship at all. I feel like that whole thing had way more potential than any of the other characters and just never went anywhere. (Keep in mind that I didn't watch anything after finishing Nisemonogatari.) This was years ago also so maybe I'm just mis-remembering everything.

 

You get more of it in the so-called second season, which aired the year after Nisemonogatari, but you're right that the bond between Araragi and Senjougahara is handled weirdly throughout the show. By the end, I got the distinct sense that Senjougahara was with Araragi because he was the first man who was truly open with his intentions toward her, after years of abuse and neglect, and that Araragi was with Senjougahara because he felt entitled to be fucking someone out of the cast of cute girls and it might as well be the one who'd staple his dick shut if he didn't choose her.

 

It's really just weird that Araragi turns out to be the lightweight character, after the dynamics of the first season discussed above.

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I think that's great, and might be an interesting watch. Thing is I'm still constantly bugged by surface level things. I had some complaints about the presentational layer of the show in my original post that I extracted here instead of editing:

The manga Oyasumi Punpun has a kind of structure where the male main character is more or less defined and developed by the female presence in his life, but each character has emotional layers and aren't just weakly written side characters, and in this case I think it works, but I feel that this is a function of the piece not preferring any specific character or showing any of them to be totally sympathetic or central. Punpun doesn't have to be deconstructed as a hero because he never was one to begin with. His design and the designs of the people around him reflect that, and I'm not sure you would get the same effect if you made him look like the main character of Bakemonogatari. Everyone around punpun literally looks more real than he does, in the same way that the main character in Bakemonogatari looks infinitely more real that all the moe cute anime girls around him.

goodnight_punpun_v01_ch07_entropy_ms.goo

(Punpun is the bird cartoon by the way)

The design choice to doll up all the girls while keeping Araragi a regular dude may conflict with the intention of making the main character unsympathetic, is what I'm saying.

This is another reason why I think that the way anime girls are designed hampers their perception as characters. It's a hard left turn to consider any of the characters rendered this way to be real (to me at least) and requires my watching hours of the show and other shows for it to sink in.

Anyway maybe this design trope is totally central to Bakemonogatari's overall effect. If so then it could more or less be completely honest about its sexualizing and infantalizing the characters which is actually really awesome. I guess I have to watch it to figure that out.

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Anyway maybe this design trope is totally central to Bakemonogatari's overall effect. If so then it could more or less be completely honest about its sexualizing and infantalizing the characters which is actually really awesome. I guess I have to watch it to figure that out.

 

Eh, the design is mostly the Shinbou's typical take on the Shaft house style. He likes that overproduced look to his characters, which comes off as them industrially screen-printed in Sayonara, Zetsubou-Sensei but is really wet and plump in Bakemonogatari, and it's present in all of his characters in the latter show. For instance, Araragi's hair gradually grows longer over the series and eventually gets drawn like it's torn strips of wet pleather. It's gross, but I think it's only partially plugged into the unique themes of the series. Shinbou just likes his shit lush as hell.

 

I think you just might like Oyasumi Punpun a lot. I don't mean that dismissively. If something's really good, everything else just pales in comparison. That's okay, too. I hate that so many shows use the girl-as-doll tropes pioneered by Evangelion but don't include the multiple episodes of systemic cultural criticism that make it conscionable in that context. I think Shinbou's extraordinarily talented, but he's too much of a jokester, a wag, and a troll not to let you ogle the women that he's saying you shouldn't ogle. I know that's a little disappointing, but...

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I think you just might like Oyasumi Punpun a lot. If something's really good, everything else pales in comparison. That's okay, too. I hate that so many shows use the girl-as-doll tropes pioneered by Evangelion but don't include the multiple episodes of systemic societal criticism that make it conscionable in that context.

I mean, I had something specific to say about punpun, though I won't rule out me having weird honeymoon fever with the piece. This time though I'm not dropping punpun because I feel like it.

Punpun being an abstraction has an effect of making him seem less credible and grounded, which I feel is similar to the effect moe designs have on me. Araragi has a plausible physique and is rendered and human looking, so it makes me feel, preconsciously, that he's The Cake any everyone else is temporal icing, or that he's the ground that you eventually touch back down on after floating on moe air.

Anyway this isn't really specific to the monogatari series since I can say this about any anime with female characters and an accompanying male protagonist (or even an all female cast). If me eventually just enumerating all the latent reasons I'm bothered by moe is at all annoying, I'll just write a blog instead.

By the way I really like how Shinji is just a weak chicken boy with girly features:

CE2UAI9VEAAT5CJ.jpg

He's so moe

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I mean, I had something specific to say about punpun, though I won't rule out me having weird honeymoon fever with the piece. This time though I'm not dropping punpun because I feel like it.

Punpun being an abstraction has an effect of making him seem less credible and grounded, which I feel is similar to the effect moe designs have on me. Araragi has a plausible physique and is rendered and human looking, so it makes me feel, preconsciously, that he's The Cake any everyone else is temporal icing, or that he's the ground that you eventually touch back down on after floating on moe air.

 

Yeah, sorry. I get what you're saying with the Punpun stuff, but I haven't read the manga and am not particularly acquainted with its position within that separate medium, so I've just been responding to what I do know. I'm sorry if that strikes you as passing over good points.

 

Also, Shinji was deliberately drawn to be feminine. Anno and Sadamoto took the usual character setup from mecha anime (firey dude, cool dude, and indecisive girl) and flipped them (firey girl, cool girl, and indecisive dude). It probably could be argued that, as an incredible successful subversion of the stock male protagonist in anime, Shinji became the grandfather of the gutless Potato-kun who's now ubiquitous in every anime with more than one female character to lust after. He's certainly the grandfather of Araragi, in his own way.

 

Anyway, here are Sadamoto's own notes from the back of one of the Evangelion manga:

Sadamoto_nadia-shinji.png

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Yeah there comes a point where potato-kun isn't recognizably unsympathetic anymore and his indecision is a wacky symptom of being too fortunate with the ladies, at which point his lack of discernible features makes him the male audience avatar which grosses me the fuck out. From osmosis I gather that Shinji is supposed to be unsympathetic and spineless (while female Shinji might be endearing and hilariously inept, which is commentary in itself (albeit obvious and hamfisted commentary)), but that because the other qualities of his relationship with the girls other anime (and its audience) have chipped away at the critical parts and optimized the parts that attract male audiences. Potato kun and his harem of stereotypes being the result, and then it further optimizes so that potato kun just disappears and all thats left is seinen-age grouped guy audience inserting themselves into an all female cast. Gross!

Evangelion as the unintentional origin of this horrible setup is interesting, actually. I hadn't realized this at all, and was always kind of confused as to why certain female character tropes exist and are always treated as weird winky cultural memes within the pieces they exist in.

I still haven't watched eva, and it's looking more and more weird.

EDIT: I have a bad habit of prematurely submitting then editing posts, so the comment you read just now may not be the current one, sorry

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Yeah there comes a point where potato-kun isn't recognizably unsympathetic anymore and his indecision is a wacky symptom of being too fortunate with the ladies, at which point his lack of discernible features makes him the male audience avatar which grosses me the fuck out. From osmosis I gather that Shinji is supposed to be unsympathetic and spineless (while female Shinji might be endearing and hilariously inept, which is commentary in itself (albeit obvious and hamfisted commentary)), but that because the other qualities of his relationship with the girls other anime (and its audience) have chipped away at the critical parts and optimized the parts that attract male audiences. Potato kun and his harem of stereotypes being the result.

Evangelion as the unintentional origin of this horrible setup is interesting, actually. I hadn't realized this at all, and was always kind of confused as to why certain female character tropes exist and are always treated as weird winky cultural memes within the pieces they exist in.

I still haven't watched eva, and it's looking more and more weird.

 

I mean, your first paragraph is really astute. Maybe the cultural miasma of Evangelion is just that thick? I can't tell, I'm drowning in it.

 

With regards to character tropes, Evangelion definitely represents this kind of Cambrian Explosion, because everyone watched it, including many future directors, writers, and artists, and almost all of them had similar thoughts about how the characters from Evangelion could be lifted out of the show and maybe even improved. I know that it broke Anno's heart that he made a character expressly about how, if a woman is a doll, she can't love you, and how, if you try to make her a doll, she won't love you, and then that character gets put on body pillows and in dating sims everywhere. It's like your entire culture is telling you, in the clearest possible terms, that they're happy to consume your work but they'll never understand it. No wonder he was talking about "killing" Evangelion when he first started making the Rebuild movies.

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When I first watched Bakemonogatari I liked the monster-of-the-week stuff but that was like a million years ago or whatever.

 

Then I watched it again recently and it was gross. I forced myself to finish it out of spite and there was still some good stuff in there but I basically hate it for all the same reasons. Then I tried watching the second series whatever it's called... Nise? Neko? I think Nise... Anyway, the first episode involved Araragi's little sister's best friend (snake girl IIRC) fawning over Araragi again and I never watched the second episode. ):

 

It's still on my list because maybe some day I'll build up enough energy to deal with the bullshit until I see what Gorm's talking about. I doubt it though. There's enough to watch that isn't that!

 

Also as an aside, I used to love the presentation and style of the series (also known as, "cool Shaft") until I sat through all of Mekaku City Actors and hated my life and now I'll be happy if I never see it again.

 

On the other hand Mekaku City Actors doesn't have any of the fawny bullshit that Bakemonogatari has so if you really hate yourself you should watch that!

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The manga Oyasumi Punpun has a kind of structure where the male main character is more or less defined and developed by the female presence in his life, but each character has emotional layers and aren't just weakly written side characters, and in this case I think it works, but I feel that this is a function of the piece not preferring any specific character or showing any of them to be totally sympathetic or central. Punpun doesn't have to be deconstructed as a hero because he never was one to begin with. His design and the designs of the people around him reflect that, and I'm not sure you would get the same effect if you made him look like the main character of Bakemonogatari. Everyone around punpun literally looks more real than he does, in the same way that the main character in Bakemonogatari looks infinitely more real that all the moe cute anime girls around him.

(Punpun is the bird cartoon by the way)

Looked up some more art by the artist from the page you posted and holy shit, this guy is great!

 

tumblr_lr6cufPDmt1qdc388o1_500.png

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