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Yeah but why does she walk around wearing that outfit? Seems like it's still catering to the jerk off material crowd.

 

I mean, everything gross about Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex is a legacy from Masamune Shirow. I can't imagine anyone jerking off to the lengthy conversations about police jurisdiction in SAC, it's really just there to make sure that as much of the fandom transferred over from the movies as possible. It's definitely not a good thing, but if you're turned off from a good show by a woman showing some skin for the male gaze, I've got bad news about every other piece of modern media ever...

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The second episode of the CR podcast came out and you know so far it doesn't feel all that shilly after all. I think once they get used to the flow of podcasting it might end up not terrible!

They also call out blatant sexism which is something no other anime podcast I tried actually did. Golden Boy, specifically. They didn't go into a whole lot of depth, but the fact that they're aware of it is nice!

 

So I'm sorta hopeful?

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It's definitely not a good thing, but if you're turned off from a good show by a woman showing some skin for the male gaze, I've got bad news about every other piece of modern media ever...

No I've seen about six episodes of it before I gave up, it's pretty over the top and out of context with the tone of the show, moreso than the original movie. I don't know why you are sarcastically equating it with every other piece of modern media ever since there are variables but obviously you know that and I know that. I mean at least there are no explicit lesbian sex scenes from the comics, but you know. It's clearly not a show for people who are not generally interested in anime.

 

Also the mixed media 3D robot animation looks terrible.

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No I've seen about six episodes of it before I gave up, it's pretty over the top and out of context with the tone of the show, moreso than the original movie. I don't know why you are sarcastically equating it with every other piece of modern media ever since there are variables but obviously you know that and I know that. I mean at least there are no explicit lesbian sex scenes from the comics, but you know. It's clearly not a show for people who are not generally interested in anime.

 

You are literally only the only person I know who's felt that way to that extreme. I don't know what to say except okay? That's not really been my experience, not even with people who aren't really into anime.

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Yeah in my experience Ghost in the Shell is definitely one of those that falls in the category of "anime people who don't like anime probably like if they like an anime that isn't Cowboy Bebop".

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I get the feeling only if they are men and if they want to philosophize the nudity of cyborgs. It's still loaded with fanservice and feels very much like a relic of sleazy imported 80s and 90s anime that appealed to only one demographic. Things have moved much further than the baseness of Ghost in the Shell these days.

 

I don't know what to say other than it is not a show/movie/comic that will ever capture the same general and enthusiastic audience as Cowboy Bebop or Tokyo Godfathers.

 

On a personal level though my main problem is just everything about Ghost in the Shell is boring. The movie is just way more shallow than it wants to be and feels pretty uneventful. All characters are impossible for me to care about. S.A.C. is just so slow and dry that is why I gave up. It doesn't help how scaled back the drawings are and howlimited the animation is either because there's not even eye candy in the meantime.

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Nobody who isn't super into anime has ever mentioned Tokyo Godfathers to me when talking about anime! That's crazy talk, you're silly.

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I never said it wasn't popular or well reviewed. But okay.

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I don't know what to say other than it is not a show/movie/comic that will ever capture the same general and enthusiastic audience as Cowboy Bebop or Tokyo Godfathers.

 

I really have trouble thinking that most people will have no problem with Faye Valentine's low-rise booty shots and crop top but will be impossibly turned off by the Major's monokini and jacket. I don't know, it feels a little like you personally don't like its aesthetics but are generalizing that to what the public at large will or will not stomach.

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You're equating both on the same level and considering the the source material for GitS it's really not like that. Also Faye Valentine is not the main character and therefore doesn't have as much screentime as the major and besides some shots (mostly the bikini part in that one episode), it's not really a show fixated on the male gaze, just check out some screenshots and compare. If anything she's often postured in a very slovenly way as one of the dudes and despite her clothing is not generally postured as fanservice. This is, sure, in contrast to some of the promo images created by Toshihiro Kawamoto who in his art book often tailors the characters depending on what medium they would be portrayed in. So Faye for DVD covers and more official and distributed art tends to be give action poses from the show while he drew her posed gratuitously as sort of pin ups for magazines. This of course doesn't help my case, but there's a big difference to me between sexy promo images of Faye vs. stills from the show itself.

 

Anyway, I'm not going to convince you guys of anything and you're not going to convince me either so I don't think there's much else to say here. I did find this great series of blog post posts in the meantime of all of the GitS incarnations, so maybe it's worth a read. I found it interesting nonetheless.

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You're equating both on the same level and considering the the source material for GitS it's really not like that. Also Faye Valentine is not the main character and therefore doesn't have as much screentime as the major and besides some shots (mostly the bikini part in that one episode), it's not really a show fixated on the male gaze, just check out some screenshots and compare. If anything she's often postured in a very slovenly way as one of the dudes and despite her clothing is not generally postured as fanservice. This is, sure, in contrast to some of the promo images created by Toshihiro Kawamoto who in his art book often tailors the characters depending on what medium they would be portrayed in. So Faye for DVD covers and more official and distributed art tends to be give action poses from the show while he drew her posed gratuitously as sort of pin ups for magazines. This of course doesn't help my case, but there's a big difference to me between sexy promo images of Faye vs. stills from the show itself.

 

I mean, I understand what you're saying, but the different creative DNA behind Ghost in the Shell and Cowboy Bebop probably isn't going to be readily apparent to the average viewer. Speaking anecdotally, most people will see these two images as the same thing, which is pointless anime cheesecake to be ignored:

 

cowboy_bebop_-_faye_valentine.jpg

05c0bf4809c5e3605b21f149c5d72938.jpg

 

Sure, there's differences in their conception and execution, but the level of literacy necessary to appreciate those differences is fairly close to the level of literacy necessary to tolerate them. At least, that's the case in my experience. Anyway...

 

Anyway, I'm not going to convince you guys of anything and you're not going to convince me either so I don't think there's much else to say here. I did find this great series of blog post posts in the meantime of all of the GitS incarnations, so maybe it's worth a read. I found it interesting nonetheless.

 

That looks really good. In terms of criticism, it's very reader-response feminism, but I'll make some time to digging through it tomorrow. Thanks!

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This DBZ live-action fan short is actually one of the better ones I've seen, actually manages to capture some of the spirit and pacing of the original -

 

 

Yeah, I know it's not anime but hell if I didn't enjoy it.

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Together with my GF I saw Satoshi Kon's Perfect Blue and it just killed me. There were multiple moments where I was gasping, unsure what would happen and outraged at the events on screen. What a film! So quiet and restrained, but with these moments of utter insanity. And some of the stuff totally prefigures what Kon would perfect in Paprika! The image of Mima skipping around hallways, for instance. It's a fantastic viewport into the seminal elements of his style, both visual and thematic.

 

(PS. I was thrilled to notice a reference in the film to Kon's manga Opus, hanging on one of the character's walls.)

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Okay, I probably need to put a re-watch of Perfect Blue on my list. It didn't make much of an impression on me at the time, but people all love Kon so much...

 

Also, an unrelated thing, but while trying to find a good .gif of Cromartie High's hallway walk for a retrospective series, I found this image on Tumblr:

tumblr_mz5v0sol3Z1qd0ludo1_1280.png

I laughed, I admit. I almost wish I bothered to have an account on Tumblr, because sometimes it has some good anime stuff, like the short-lived #animecathusband meme for Space Dandy.

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HA! That's genius!

 

Honestly, I didn't think Perfect Blue was all that either. It's great, but it's not as good as other Kon movies.

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Oh! Edo Rocket is not available on any streaming services

nor is it available via less legitimate sources, apparently

, and so I didn't get to watch any of it.

 

But now I wanna rewatch Cromartie High School god it's so good.

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I finished Kids on the Slope and it was okay. There were parts of it I really liked but a lot of the show just grated on me. A little too much cheesy high school romance and people giving each other the silent treatment left and right because they are mad about something or another. And the ending really sucked hard too. I wanted to like it and thought I would like it and even did like it at times but I just don't think it quite came together for me.

 

And now thanks to you guys arguing about it, I started Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex. I'm several episodes in and there have been a few good moments but nothing terribly interesting has happened yet. It's been kind of slow and there has been a whole lot of dialog covering various characters and organizations and whatnot that I am having kind of a hard time following. Also, I'm watching it on Hulu which only has the English dub and I'm not sure if I'm a fan of some of the voice acting. A lot of the people just sound really monotone and bored. And I gotta say, that unitard getup the Major has is pretty damn gaudy. It's not really that big of a deal to me but Jesus that is a terrible outfit.

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The second season of Seitokai no Ichizon is really good? I remember the first one being funny, but mostly a poor man's Seitokai Yakuindomo (even though I watched Seitokai no Ichizon first), but the second one has good plot development for a one-off meta-gag show and actually fixes most of the art and pacing issues I had with the first season (probably due mostly to a new studio animating it). Both seasons are coming out on Blu-ray in late spring, so I guess that's a must-have for me now? You can see how conflicted I am.

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As someone who generally finds the whole yandere thing kind of weird and dumb, that actually seems like it could be really fucking cool, at least conceptually.

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Crusader Kings 2 except you play as a character is an environment that you can see and walk around in is mega cool, but this kind of small scale version of that system for some reason only exists in porn games/dating games/this.

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Astro Boy is among my favourite things in the whole world and I really, really hope that this time they finally do justice to the potential and depth that the characters have.

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