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Yeah I was going to mention Baccanno and maybe even Durarara buttttttt both of those have like magic and superpowers and shit so I dunnooooo.

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FLCL was my second anime I ever watched. It was amazing, because it was completely mind-bending, and amazed me to the creativity of it all. Now I've come back to it numerous times, and every time I understand something new or get some subplot that's subtly layered into this 6 episode tour-de-force. I fucking love FLCL.

 

I feel Bacanno! Hits the feeling of Cowboy Bebop quite well, if that hasn't been brought up yet (I've yet to read all the posts).

 

Also maybe Tiger and Bunny? I really liked that show, and sometimes I completely forget that it was a thing that was good.

Ooooh, nice call with Bacanno! FLCL is good too but I always kinda thought of it as quite a 'anime persons' anime as Patrick put it.

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see, when Patrick said:

 

I am a massive fan of the anime aesthetic but have been burned too many times by stories that fly up their own butt with mythology magic chosen one power gemstone chosen one magic BS.

 

I read that he meant that he doesn't like the DBZ/Shonen tropes of people powering up and being the best and all that. I guess we just have to wait for Patrick to respond!

 

Also, I guess Space Dandy is something that's very similar to Cowboy bebop in nearly everything but it's content. Which is weird.

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Yeah but DBZ doesn't really care about its own mythology WAIT WE ALREADY HAD THIS DISCUSSION

 

And eh mentions Blue Gender as a specific example which is definitely not a DBZ type of anime from what I've seen since hearing about it.

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There's more than a few unique shows and movies out there but I don't think any really match whatever mashup is going on in Cowboy Bebop. Something similar in tone may not really exist but there's plenty out there for people who don't like anime.

 

I'd say Michiko and Hatchin is far closer to Samurai Champloo but neither really capture the more somber and space jazz action of Cowboy Bebop. It has plenty funny moments but in general the show is kind of sad, the movie driving this tone home even moreso.

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We've been talking about FLCL. Do not watch that. It's very well regarded, but it's pretty impenetrable to a newcomer.

 

This is an interesting idea but I think although FLCL has a lot of obtuse japanese language jokes, its light enough of a plot and entertaining enough to be a good introduction to the medium.

 

Do you guys think that the ideal anime introduction ought to be accessible to someone who has no knowledge of the source culture and free of esoteric references, or something that is full of that influence and more representative of most other anime? Or could it just be something that's really good?

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FLCL trades on stereotype and inside knowledge so much that, yes, I'd recommend against a newcomer watching it. Even if they'd enjoy it, wouldn't it be because they felt they'd gotten a taste of dem really crazy Japanese cartoons? If it's complexity and zaniness you want, let them watch Paprika, which is just a damn fine movie.

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Do you guys think that the ideal anime introduction ought to be accessible to someone who has no knowledge of the source culture and free of esoteric references, or something that is full of that influence and more representative of most other anime? Or could it just be something that's really good?

 

There are generally two tacks I take when introducing someone to anime. If they seem interested in it or have relatively few preconceptions, I usually go for anime that shows how unique it can be as a medium, among which FLCL could be counted but is probably better appreciated after watching a few other shows to establish basic literacy. If they show suspicion or hostility, I usually go for anime that shows how it can improve upon more familiar genres in Western television and animation. That's why my go-to show for the latter is always going to be Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex. Everyone's aware of police procedurals, thanks to fucking Law & Order, but what about a police procedural that has a well-rounded female character as the lead and focuses not only on the ethics of emerging technologies but also of police jurisdiction, political corruption, domestic terrorism, and immigration? Oh yeah, it takes place in a cool cyberpunk future, too.

 

Actually, I'm watching the Patlabor TV series right now and it also has a not-terrible main character who's female, as well as a hyper-competent coworker of hers and a well-respected division commander. Depending on how you count them, one third of the show's main characters are female, and this is in 1989. Were anime writers and directors really that forward-looking, or is the demographic makeup of Japanese law enforcement just very different from that in America?

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I'm so excited for this. Here's hoping it's a better job than Assassination Classroom.

 

but what about a police procedural that has a well-rounded female character as the lead and focuses not only on the ethics of emerging technologies but also of police jurisdiction, political corruption, domestic terrorism, and immigration? Oh yeah, it takes place in a cool cyberpunk future, too.

 

You could also show people Psycho-Pass, which also has these themes. I've just started watching it. It's ace.

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You could also show people Psycho-Pass, which also has these themes. I've just started watching it. It's ace.

 

I think Psycho-Pass completely bombs it's climax.

I adore Makishima's plan to attack the agriculture industry to bring down the society cause it's a very smart take on how to solve the 'loner vs the world' issue (it's remotely feasible in modern gene modding industry).  But then they add a typical BS on top of that with "ooo look Sybil was EVIL look at all those EVIL brains controlling it" like wtf, its only purpose was to degrade the series' awesome grounded tone.  I love over the top stuff just fine, but not when a show decides to just pull it off from mostly grounded franchise.

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FLCL trades on stereotype and inside knowledge so much that, yes, I'd recommend against a newcomer watching it. Even if they'd enjoy it, wouldn't it be because they felt they'd gotten a taste of dem really crazy Japanese cartoons? If it's complexity and zaniness you want, let them watch Paprika, which is just a damn fine movie.

Yeah, this is my general thought as well. For various reasons, I find the "isn't Japan weird?" approach to be actually somewhat offensive, as it has shades of modern-day orientalism. 

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I've seen like... less than 10 anime series ever and one of the few I've watched is FLCL. I can confirm that it's not great for beginners, I honestly found myself saying out loud "what the fuuuuuuuuuck is going on" so many times while watching it. It was still enjoyable in a weird way, but I feel like I didn't fully appreciate it for what it was trying to do.

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Finished Samurai Champloo. Those last few episodes were pretty good and I ended up liking the show quite a bit in the end. I honestly did not expect it to end the way it did

with everyone actually living and realizing that they had become friends and didn't want to kill each other any more. I expected both Mugen and Jin to die and thought I would be disappointed if they didn't. But in the end I'm glad it ended on a happy note.

 

My favorite episode by far was the baseball episode. I fucking loved that one.

I didn't expect it to so far off the rails and when I saw the dog go up to bat and the pitcher couldn't land any strikes because the strike zone was too small I just fucking lost it. And then since he couldn't land any strikes, he just threw the ball right at the dog and the dog ran off yelping. Something about that whole scene hit me just right and I couldn't stop laughing. Everything after that was just great too. I'm not a big fan of sports so I didn't expect to like this one but with the dog and everyone getting killed by baseballs and broken bats it was just too perfect.

 

I started the first episode of Kids On The Slope last night. Didn't get far enough to form any kind of opinion but it is quite different from anything else I've seen so I'm excited to see how it pans out.

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I started the first episode of Kids On The Slope last night. Didn't get far enough to form any kind of opinion but it is quite different from anything else I've seen so I'm excited to see how it pans out.

 

 

Kids on the Slope is beautiful. High recommend.

 

Up on Poppy Hill is probably a good companion piece to Kids on the Slope 

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Yeah, this is my general thought as well. For various reasons, I find the "isn't Japan weird?" approach to be actually somewhat offensive, as it has shades of modern-day orientalism. 

 

I agree with this a ton. It's so frustrating that articles about "weird Japan" seem to be the most common point of reference people have concerning contemporary Japanese culture, especially any kind of story that tries to present some marginal or fringe phenomenon as being "big in Japan". Actually, any story that has the words "big in Japan" in it at all is likely to be a piece of trash.

 

Remember when it was so popular in Japan to get a bagel head? Ugh.

 

FLCL is a show I need to rewatch for opposite reasons as Cowboy Bebop. Highschool-me LOVED Bebop but was lukewarm on FLCL. But that may have been a timing issue... I watched FLCL while I was in the middle of a highschool modern literature class and the show came off as much too straightforwardly Freudian for my tastes.

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I think FLCL looks cool and is fun to watch but I've never really understood the massive hype surrounding it. Shrugggg.

 

Also I think Kids on the Slope has a bad ending!

 

ANIME SUX

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Yeah, sorry for being so vague/dumb. Not being an anime-person it's hard to put into words what I mean.

 

ANIME I HAVE WATCHED

 

Dragonball Z. Endless chosen one super power power stone power level chosen one super power stuff. Liked it when I was 9 but, yeah. 

 

I brought up Blue Gender because the entirety of the first half of the series is just mad dash after mad dash to escape the planet Earth, the protagonists numbers thinning out as giant Starship Trooper bugs kill them off. Just dumb exciting fun where the only real goal is "stay alive and keep moving".

 

Then immediately after they escape Earth it turns into "You are a chosen one with a magical gift for piloting these mechs, you are Earth's last hope, you must save Earth with your magical mech piloting powers."

 

Trigun I liked when I was 13 but have been sheepish about returning to.because...I liked it when I was 13. I rewatched the first two episodes a couple years ago, they were pretty good but they were also far away from the magic chosen one fated save the planet chosen one magic chosen one powers mythology stuff that consumes the later episodes.

 

Outlaw Star was another series I watched that seemed to be like Cowboy Bebop (if less cool) that eventually shifted from "fun, single stories about catching different criminals" to "You are the chosen robot you have the chosen robot powers, you are the universe's one last hope as the chosen robot with chosen robot powers now here's a fan service episode with anime boobs".

 

The only other anime series I've seen in it's entirety is Evangelion, in which I loved all of the smaller observational stuff about being a lonely adolescent and completely hated all the chosen one philosophical stuff about chosen ones and chosen robots and the chosen on and chosen robot magic powers to pilot mechs.

 

I started watching Shiki last year and got about 13 episodes in. That side-stepped most of the problems I have with anime but the plotting was so slow. It took forever for anything to happen, so I eventually ran out of steam and stopped watching it.

 

Anime films I am more familiar with and tend to enjoy. Akira, Ghost in the Shell, most Ghibli stuff, Millenium Actress, etc. Good stuff.

 

I will have to check out Kids on the Slope. That seems to be more up my alley.

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Man, I'm totally a sucker for "You are a chosen one with a magical gift for piloting these mechs, you are Earth's last hope, you must save Earth with your magical mech piloting powers."

 

:(

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Man, I'm totally a sucker for "You are a chosen one with a magical gift for piloting these mechs, you are Earth's last hope, you must save Earth with your magical mech piloting powers."

 

:(

 

You and me both. I hope they make one of those one day where the chosen one is actually just Jesus piloting a mech.

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You and me both. I hope they make one of those one day where the chosen one is actually just Jesus piloting a mech.

Wasn't that the point of Xenosaga?

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That's why I try to establish that I'm just not an anime person generally, because there probably is a whole culture and history to even tropes like that in anime that people who are actually into it can appreciate way more than I can. The same way all death metal just sounds like the same shouty noise to someone who doesn't listen to death metal. The way people who don't listen to much rap have to assume that Kanye West records are masterpieces because, of the four rap albums a year they listen to, those are the most interesting.

 

The problem is I'm actually REALLY into the anime aesthetic and the minimalist animation. I think it's just gorgeous. It's just that it's usually utilized to tell stories I couldn't care less about.

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Wasn't that the point of Xenosaga?

 

I have no knowledge of this universe so I'll just take your word for it.

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I have no knowledge of this universe so I'll just take your word for it.

Mostly a joke. Xenosaga was very fond of incredibly heavy handed biblical references, but used entirely superficially, they signified nothing. I never got past the first game, but I could easily imagine it ending up with space-Jesus piloting a mech.

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